Author Topic: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2  (Read 9647 times)

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Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2016, 10:49:55 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I just don't want Danny to think about drafting Hield and playing him as a 3

Don't try to be "special" this way

You're missing the point.  I don't think anyone envisions Buddy Hield as a full time starting small forward ever.  His natural position is clearly at the two.

But many of us can absolutely envision him playing as a "wing scorer" in a "three guard lineup" and be able to switch between the opposition's twos and threes  on defense.

Remember that his position in college was primarily as a three.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 11:27:28 PM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2016, 10:58:47 PM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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Hield has a wingspan of 6'9, he can easily play the 3 in spurts.

I have said from day 1 that if we keep the 3rd pick that Hield is our guy, to compare Hield to JJ or Fredette is insane, both have been spot up shooters for their entire careers. Hield plays like CJ McCollum or Harden and his work ethic is Kobe like so I can still see him improving for many years to come. I think a Smart/Hield backcourt would compliment each other perfectly.

Hield , Smart are not 3's and it's like Danny and CBS are trying to re invent the wheel or something

Like aha,  lets have our unique SG that is strong, long long wingspan go against your SF (6'7 and taller and these days usually around 6'eight)  and we can beat you

Well... no  you can't

Just stick to "normal" or better yet do what the OkC has done and just be taller at every position than everyone else.   

when was the last time you have seen a team of "munchkins" get anywhere??   (excluding Dumars and Thomas, who were both special players plus the rest of the lineup was big)

I think people are misinterpreting Ainge's quote. Hield will not start as a small forward but is capable of playing the 3 in certain circumstances. Draymond never starts as a centre but will revert there when they want to go into full attack mode.

Murray doesn't have the body to play that position at all.

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2016, 11:53:28 PM »

Offline loco_91

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What he's saying is that Murray can play some PG down the road and Hield cannot. I agree with this assessment, and it is part of the reason that I like Murray much better than I like Hield.

Nobody seriously views Hield as a SF. Imagine him trying to guard KD, PG, Melo, Lebron...

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2016, 12:51:04 AM »

Offline byennie

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What he's saying is that Murray can play some PG down the road and Hield cannot. I agree with this assessment, and it is part of the reason that I like Murray much better than I like Hield.

Nobody seriously views Hield as a SF. Imagine him trying to guard KD, PG, Melo, Lebron...

No, he's saying Murray can play some PG and Hield can play some SF. Why keep changing his words to suit your preference?

They'll both have issues against certain players at those positions, which is why they are both primarily "2"s. It's not like Murray is closer to being able to guard someone like Russell Westbrook than Hield is to LeBron.

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2016, 02:17:58 AM »

Offline D Dub

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Barring a trade, I think we take Buddy.   Who needs upside when guy can ball right now?

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2016, 03:55:23 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Derozan, Wiggins, Batum and Butler are 2-3

not 6'4 hield

Every time you post about Hield you misquote his size at 6'4" - no idea why you do it, since I've corrected you about it countless times, but you keep doing it anyway - seemingly because you think it will help back your bias against Hield?

Marcus Smart is 6'3" with a 6'9" wingspan and a 8'3" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and has no problems defending NBA small forwards.

Jae Crowder is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan and an 8'3" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and has no problem defending NBA small forwards.

Buddy Hield is 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan and an 8'5" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and is probably more athletic then either of those two guys - just like Smart and Crowder, he'll have no problems defending the majority of NBA small forwards.

Unlike Smart and Crowder he wont be able to switch comfortably onto Power Forwards in small ball lineups, but at the SF spot in today's NBA he'll be perfectly fine.

Although he was a natural SG, Courtney Lee used to spend time at the PG, SG and SF spots for us back in the big 3 era.  Hield is at least as big as Courtney Lee in every measurement (and lee was hardly a top shelf ball handler or passer) so I can't see why Hield couldn't do the same.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 05:06:20 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2016, 03:57:35 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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What he's saying is that Murray can play some PG down the road and Hield cannot. I agree with this assessment, and it is part of the reason that I like Murray much better than I like Hield.

Nobody seriously views Hield as a SF. Imagine him trying to guard KD, PG, Melo, Lebron...

Murray is no more competent a PG then Hield is.  For goodness sake his assist-to-turnover ratio was almost as bad as Nerlens Noel's was in his freshman year.  If you have Jamal Murry running the point for your team then you are in seriously trouble.

The point of it is that Hield has the size to spend some time at the SF spot, but Murray cannot.  Murray is a natural two who you HOPE could become a capable PG with some development to his passing and ball handling..but right now, he's a two.

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2016, 07:48:47 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Barring a trade, I think we take Buddy.   Who needs upside when guy can ball right now?

If we take him, there will still be a trade to clear some room at guard.   AB and filler for Love perhaps?

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2016, 08:25:45 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I think most of you thinking Danny likes or would pick Heild over Murray have not been paying attention. yes Heild is the right and better option but that doesn't matter to Danny. Danny prefers those under-sized combo guards. we'll take murray if we don't trade the pick.

and if that happens and Murray proceeds to flop, can we finally acknowledge that the "under-sized player" infatuation Danny has is a huge issue? 

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2016, 08:30:07 AM »

Offline Granath

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I think most of you thinking Danny likes or would pick Heild over Murray have not been paying attention. yes Heild is the right and better option but that doesn't matter to Danny. Danny prefers those under-sized combo guards. we'll take murray if we don't trade the pick.

and if that happens and Murray proceeds to flop, can we finally acknowledge that the "under-sized player" infatuation Danny has is a huge issue?

Is 6-4 undersized for a combo guard? It seems that a PG is often 6-2 and a SG is around 6-5, so 6-4 for a combo seems about right to me.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2016, 11:50:32 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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even still just the fact that he is a combo guard puts him ahead of anyone else.

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2016, 12:02:38 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Derozan, Wiggins, Batum and Butler are 2-3

not 6'4 hield

Every time you post about Hield you misquote his size at 6'4" - no idea why you do it, since I've corrected you about it countless times, but you keep doing it anyway - seemingly because you think it will help back your bias against Hield?

Marcus Smart is 6'3" with a 6'9" wingspan and a 8'3" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and has no problems defending NBA small forwards.

Jae Crowder is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan and an 8'3" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and has no problem defending NBA small forwards.

Buddy Hield is 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan and an 8'5" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and is probably more athletic then either of those two guys - just like Smart and Crowder, he'll have no problems defending the majority of NBA small forwards.
That's probably not true. There's a reason he only did measurements at the combine.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2016, 01:08:29 AM »

Offline MBunge

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and if that happens and Murray proceeds to flop, can we finally acknowledge that the "under-sized player" infatuation Danny has is a huge issue?

I don't think it's fair to say Danny has an infatuation with undersized players.  If you look at the draft, his track record is that of a guy who has had to be pretty flexible in player evaluation.  This is only going to be his third top 6 pick in Boston.  He's drafted young upside and more established college players.  He's gone for the homerun and your basic single.  He's drafted big, small and even grabbed a few foreign guys.

If anything, Ainge's habit has been to undervalue shooting and he's been better at finding average athletes who know how to play the game than he is at analyzing elite athletes with marginal basketball skills.

Mike

Re: Danny: Hield is a 2-3, Murray is a 1-2
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2016, 03:16:17 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Derozan, Wiggins, Batum and Butler are 2-3

not 6'4 hield

Every time you post about Hield you misquote his size at 6'4" - no idea why you do it, since I've corrected you about it countless times, but you keep doing it anyway - seemingly because you think it will help back your bias against Hield?

Marcus Smart is 6'3" with a 6'9" wingspan and a 8'3" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and has no problems defending NBA small forwards.

Jae Crowder is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan and an 8'3" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and has no problem defending NBA small forwards.

Buddy Hield is 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan and an 8'5" standing reach (according to combine measurements) and is probably more athletic then either of those two guys - just like Smart and Crowder, he'll have no problems defending the majority of NBA small forwards.
That's probably not true. There's a reason he only did measurements at the combine.

I can only go off what I see with my own eyes. 

From what I can see Hield seems to be faster running the floor in transition, quicker changing directions, better in terms of body control, and a higher leaper - when compared to Smart.  Smart has the obvious advantage in terms of physical strength, but I think that's about it.

Crowder may or may not be faster then Hield in the open floor, I certainly don't think he's quicker laterally and I don't think he's a higher leaper either.  Crowder largely depends on the "freight train" approach when going to the basket - he just puts his head down and drives blindly - full speed - into whoever might be in his way...basically hoping he'll draw a foul or surprise himself and get a shot off. 

Neither Smart nor Crowder is an especially standout athlete.  They are solid NBA-caliber athletes, but nothing special.  They just get by using sheer physicality.

Watching Hield play, I wouldn't consider him to be an elite athlete - but he looks like a pretty good one.  He runs the floor well, seems relatively quick off his first step, appears to have solid body control when getting to the basket, and seems to get up higher then people give him credit for.  I'd say he's a pretty good (if not great) athlete.  On par with Crowder at the very least (minus the strength, of course). 

But alas that is just my observation from watching him play.  I honestly think that ball handling is the only thing holding Hield back from being a ~20 PPG scorer at the NBA level...and I think ball handling is the type of skill that can be improved.

Hell even Avery Bradley has improved dramatically as a ball handler since he was 22 years old (some 2-3 year ago) and he was probably one of the worst ball handling guards of all time in his rookie year.  Hield is already an average ball handler, just not a good one (like Murray).

Hield's game actually reminds me a LOT of Ray Allen.  I think Ray was a bit of a better athlete (he was far more athletic then was given credit for) but he was never really a standout ball handler or an outstanding playmaker when he was in college. In fact Ray's overall college numbers (in his third and final year, and over his career) were fairly close to Hield's.

 
 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 03:36:14 AM by crimson_stallion »