Author Topic: Bender in The Ringer  (Read 6321 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bender in The Ringer
« on: June 10, 2016, 04:55:51 PM »

Offline footey

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16039
  • Tommy Points: 1837
This just came out today, pretty positive analysis of Bender. Nothing we haven't heard before. Still, a good read.

https://theringer.com/nba-draft-dragan-bender-507c9c056401#.xwn2n632p


Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 05:06:06 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20090
  • Tommy Points: 1331
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.


Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 05:07:59 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7022
  • Tommy Points: 468
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.
Why do we keep ignoring the fact that the kids was 17 when the season started?  His stats are virtually meaningless.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 05:36:30 PM »

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.

I mean, did you even read the article? Or did you stop at the third sentence?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 06:10:39 PM by saltlover »

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 05:39:15 PM »

Offline footey

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16039
  • Tommy Points: 1837
Sports Illustrated, which also has Celts picking Bender at 3, had this to add to its reasoning for this pick, which makes a lot of sense:

"Most importantly for Danny Ainge and his itchy trade trigger finger, this keeps them flexible. While guys like Marquese Chriss and Jamal Murray and Kris Dunn are all good enough to make certain teams fall in love with them, Bender is the one prospect after Simmons and Ingram that just about every team would find enticing later this summer."

The point being, if we want to maximize a trade into the summer, Bender makes the most sense since so many teams are intrigued to get him. For example, wouldn't he make more sense going to Sacramento in a trade for Cousins, as a good complement to WCS?  Sacramento will want a big in return, preferably a guy with 3 point range like Bender.  Much more sense than someone like Okafor. 

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 05:43:12 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3995
  • Tommy Points: 395
I'll be in Vegas for the Summer League....Can't wait to see our boy Bender...or Chriss...or Murray.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 05:43:51 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25355
  • Tommy Points: 2756
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.
Why do we keep ignoring the fact that the kids was 17 when the season started?  His stats are virtually meaningless.

We don't keep ignoring it, and scouts and GMs are not ignoring it. It's only one particular celtcsblog poster who keeps ignoring it.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2016, 05:45:12 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13751
  • Tommy Points: 2061
  • Sometimes there's no sane reason for optimism
Sports Illustrated, which also has Celts picking Bender at 3, had this to add to its reasoning for this pick, which makes a lot of sense:

"Most importantly for Danny Ainge and his itchy trade trigger finger, this keeps them flexible. While guys like Marquese Chriss and Jamal Murray and Kris Dunn are all good enough to make certain teams fall in love with them, Bender is the one prospect after Simmons and Ingram that just about every team would find enticing later this summer."

The point being, if we want to maximize a trade into the summer, Bender makes the most sense since so many teams are intrigued to get him. For example, wouldn't he make more sense going to Sacramento in a trade for Cousins, as a good complement to WCS?  Sacramento will want a big in return, preferably a guy with 3 point range like Bender.  Much more sense than someone like Okafor.

The reasoning is sound, but I am afraid that the pick is worth a lot more as the #3 than it is as a name who has already been selected. Here's hoping that if Danny makes a trade using the pick, that he does it on draft night rather than July/August.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 05:52:57 PM »

Online The Oracle

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1201
  • Tommy Points: 598
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.
Why do we keep ignoring the fact that the kids was 17 when the season started?  His stats are virtually meaningless.
If he is drafted extremely high it will be because his projected skill set is highly coveted.  If you are 7 ft., can shoot the 3 and have quick feet that allow you to defend out to the perimeter  you can bank on being drafted very high.  Good two way stretch bigs are difference makers in today's NBA and contrary to the belief of many on this forum they are extremely hard to come by.  Every team would love to have 3 of them and many teams don't have anything resembling 1.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 05:53:48 PM »

Offline BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9181
  • Tommy Points: 1238
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.
Why do we keep ignoring the fact that the kids was 17 when the season started?  His stats are virtually meaningless.

We don't keep ignoring it, and scouts and GMs are not ignoring it. It's only one particular celtcsblog poster who keeps ignoring it.

This is totally untrue.

There's 3 or 4 of them
I'm bitter.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 05:54:30 PM »

Offline BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9181
  • Tommy Points: 1238
Sports Illustrated, which also has Celts picking Bender at 3, had this to add to its reasoning for this pick, which makes a lot of sense:

"Most importantly for Danny Ainge and his itchy trade trigger finger, this keeps them flexible. While guys like Marquese Chriss and Jamal Murray and Kris Dunn are all good enough to make certain teams fall in love with them, Bender is the one prospect after Simmons and Ingram that just about every team would find enticing later this summer."

The point being, if we want to maximize a trade into the summer, Bender makes the most sense since so many teams are intrigued to get him. For example, wouldn't he make more sense going to Sacramento in a trade for Cousins, as a good complement to WCS?  Sacramento will want a big in return, preferably a guy with 3 point range like Bender.  Much more sense than someone like Okafor.

I agree with their reasoning, but I think Dunn fits that mold better than Bender
I'm bitter.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 06:07:35 PM »

Offline loco_91

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2087
  • Tommy Points: 145
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.

Those "stats" are based on a sample of 86 minutes, mostly vs Euroleague competition. Here are his actual stats for the season:

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2016, 06:08:58 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20090
  • Tommy Points: 1331
Quote
http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Still not good considering the competition

Quote
It's only one particular celtcsblog poster who keeps ignoring it.

Actually, there are several of us, who think that stats matter.   Some of us have seen many years and we seen a lot of projected greatness fall short.

This is what a 17 with a lot of potential looks like

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/lebron-bil-hsstats.jpg

heck even Tyler Hansborough average 28 PPG and 14 RPG in high school

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Hansbrough

Plenty of 17 years can ball it up and beat up older men. 

Not all the scouts like Bender blindly, most of them do not want to look like a fool if he pans out.   Some of the draft guys even edit their drafts afterwards like Chad Ford.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2016/05/15/dragan-benders-unspoken-bust-potential/

Bender on the hype

Quote
"I actually don't see (NBA scouts) in the crowd of people," he said after game. "I just focus on the game and come trying to learn new things every night from my coach and teammates."

Yep, trying to lean because he is not getting meaningful PT.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/10/2/9438537/dragan-bender-nba-draft-2016-scouting-report

Potential can be great sometimes, a lot of times it can bite you in the you know where too.

Forgive, me if I want more than Darko II for PP and KG.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 06:17:21 PM by Celtics4ever »

Reply to Celtics4ever
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 06:11:24 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6755
  • Tommy Points: 810
These are Nikoloz Tskitishvili stats in the NBA:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tskitni01.html

These are Dragan Bender's per 36 stats.

PPG 6.3
RPG 5
BLK   2.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I choose PER 36 because it shows just how bad he is folks.

Just a clarification: those stats aren't complete.

Here is a better place to get his full season stats.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

His points per 36 minutes are closer to 14. Rebounds are 7-8. Assists are 3, Blocks are close to 2 1/2, and steals are close to 1 1/2.

I especially like his stat line as a 15-16 year old in the U18 FIBA champtionship: 14 ppg, 10 rpg, 5 apg, 1 spg, and 2 bpg.

I think that is the kind of player he can become in the NBA. 

Edit: Sorry, I posted this right before someone else did.

Re: Bender in The Ringer
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 06:22:30 PM »

Offline loco_91

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2087
  • Tommy Points: 145
I'm going to re-link to an in-depth analysis that I did on Bender's stats a few weeks ago.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=83226.msg2040807#msg2040807


TL;DR Bender's pro stats aren't great, and they don't necessarily back up a potential top-3 selection. That said, they aren't terrible, and his steal and block numbers are very good. People who relentlessly bash Bender at every opportunity need to chill out. This is one of those times when you should just trust Ainge.