Jamal Murray. 79/100 threes

[Eddie20]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

TP! But you forgot non-athletic!

Well, there is not "if" on the non-athletic part for Murray so it seems it was left out.

He's average. As a minimum, considerably better than Hield. Given his age and production, I'd love to have him at 3.

Problem is he's an awful defender, struggles offensively versus athletic defenders, and his assists (2.2) to turnovers (2.1) is horrible for a player that projects as a combo guard. Kevin O'Conner is really down on him and has him much lower than others.

What was Hield doing at the same age?

We can't just automatically give Murray a pass, though. Hield has shown outstanding work ethic and developed into the best shooter in college. Plus, he also has better length than Murray and looks like the more athletic player. Murray's ability to get by his man offensively, and play defense, are major concerns on the next level.

Kevin O'Conner-
 

Effort isn’t a problem for Murray. It’s technique. It’s athleticism. It’s fundamentals. Celtics fans know how difficult it’s been for the youngsters to earn minutes playing for Brad Stevens, and that’d be similar issue for Murray. You need to play defense to stay on the floor and Murray has a long way to go.

Murray isn’t perfect on offense, either. He might be a knockdown shooter, but it wasn’t always easy for him to get his shots off cleanly against NBA level athletes. OG Anunoby ate Murray for lunch in the NCAA Tournament. He’s also a sloppy ball handler and decision-maker who can get too frenetic. The energy is nice, but sometimes it can work against you. That’s often the case for Murray.

[kozlodoev]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

TP! But you forgot non-athletic!

Well, there is not "if" on the non-athletic part for Murray so it seems it was left out.

He's average. As a minimum, considerably better than Hield. Given his age and production, I'd love to have him at 3.

Problem is he's an awful defender, struggles offensively versus athletic defenders, and his assists (2.2) to turnovers (2.1) is horrible for a player that projects as a combo guard. Kevin O'Conner is really down on him and has him much lower than others.

Not interested in playing him as PG. I'm hoping for a Ben Gordon/Rodney Stuckey type of player. If he can play traditional PG in a pinch that's gravy.

[kozlodoev]

Kevin O'Conner-

On a related note -- who is Kevin O'Connor and all those other names I can't recognize that started contributing to the front page?

[Donoghus]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

TP! But you forgot non-athletic!

Well, there is not "if" on the non-athletic part for Murray so it seems it was left out.

He's average. As a minimum, considerably better than Hield. Given his age and production, I'd love to have him at 3.

Problem is he's an awful defender, struggles offensively versus athletic defenders, and his assists (2.2) to turnovers (2.1) is horrible for a player that projects as a combo guard. Kevin O'Conner is really down on him and has him much lower than others.

Not interested in playing him as PG. I'm hoping for a Ben Gordon/Rodney Stuckey type of player. If he can play traditional PG in a pinch that's gravy.

Do you really draft a Ben Gordon/Rodney Stuckey type with the #3 pick in the draft, though?

If that's what he's projecting out, that's disappointing at the #3 spot.

[kozlodoev]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

TP! But you forgot non-athletic!

Well, there is not "if" on the non-athletic part for Murray so it seems it was left out.

He's average. As a minimum, considerably better than Hield. Given his age and production, I'd love to have him at 3.

Problem is he's an awful defender, struggles offensively versus athletic defenders, and his assists (2.2) to turnovers (2.1) is horrible for a player that projects as a combo guard. Kevin O'Conner is really down on him and has him much lower than others.

Not interested in playing him as PG. I'm hoping for a Ben Gordon/Rodney Stuckey type of player. If he can play traditional PG in a pinch that's gravy.

Do you really draft a Ben Gordon/Rodney Stuckey type with the #3 pick in the draft, though?

If that's what he's projecting out, that's disappointing at the #3 spot.

I meant player type, not talent level.

[loco_91]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

That player is Furkan Korkmaz, and he's mocked in the mid-first. Korkmaz is a 6'7 athletic version of Murray.

[Eddie20]

Kevin O'Conner-

On a related note -- who is Kevin O'Connor and all those other names I can't recognize that started contributing to the front page?

You shouldn't be so dismissive. The guy writes for a bunch of publications and has a very good draft guide. He recently was on a very informative podcast with Sam Vecenie, who is one of the draft guys around.
https://vecenie.com/2016/06/07/game-theory-episode-35-kevin-oconnor-talks-celtics-draft/

He also provides scouting reports for CSNNE
http://www.csnne.com/2016-nba-draft-scouting-report-jamal-murray-kentucky


O'Conner -

Basketball analyst for @SBNation, @DraftExpress and @SportingNews. Boston Celtics writer for @celticsblog. Researcher for Sports Aptitude. Editor for @CSNNE.

[hpantazo]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

That player is Furkan Korkmaz, and he's mocked in the mid-first. Korkmaz is a 6'7 athletic version of Murray.

Yep, far from 'the consensus top pick'. It just reflects the anti-european bias some people here have, which is pretty narrow minded considering how much the international game has changed in the past 10 years, and how many great international players have been succeeding in the NBA recently. Nobody is jumping all over Bender because he's european. People are excited about him despite the fact that he's european. It's the fact that he's 7'1, 18 years old, and has the quickness and skills of a small forward.

[LarBrd33]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

TP! But you forgot non-athletic!

Well, there is not "if" on the non-athletic part for Murray so it seems it was left out.

He's average. As a minimum, considerably better than Hield. Given his age and production, I'd love to have him at 3.

Problem is he's an awful defender, struggles offensively versus athletic defenders, and his assists (2.2) to turnovers (2.1) is horrible for a player that projects as a combo guard. Kevin O'Conner is really down on him and has him much lower than others.

What was Hield doing at the same age?

I don't like this kind of comparison.  To me, you draft based on the known talent and perhaps a bit of projection but not too much.

I like that kind of comparison.   Say two kids graduate high school the same year.

One is a 17 year old who finished his Senior year with 3.6 GPA
The other is a 21 year old who finished his Senior year with a 3.8GPA, after failing Senior year 3 times.

Which do you expect will have a better shot of succeeding in College?

[walker834]

Just what we need a fairly above average sg with the #3 pick.   No thanks.  Murray is a good all around player but Bender, Brown, Hield would have had to do something wrong to pass on those guys I think.  We have Marcus and Bradley who are better imo.  We also don't need to follow the Lakers model for success.  Teams are trying to copy the Warriors here moreso and get guys like Steph Curry when not every player is that.

I don't think we should take a sg at all.  I think Brown can at least play other positions.  I would rather trade the pick if Bender isn't as advertised and we feel like Brown can't do some things.

[PhoSita]

Kevin O'Conner-

On a related note -- who is Kevin O'Connor and all those other names I can't recognize that started contributing to the front page?

Jeff has brought on a number of smart and articulate people to contribute to the front page.  Kevin is one of them.

And by the way, Kevin is writing and contributing to roughly half a million different sites and podcasts.  Dude is working it to get his stuff out there.

[Ilikesports17]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

TP! But you forgot non-athletic!

Well, there is not "if" on the non-athletic part for Murray so it seems it was left out.

He's average. As a minimum, considerably better than Hield. Given his age and production, I'd love to have him at 3.

Problem is he's an awful defender, struggles offensively versus athletic defenders, and his assists (2.2) to turnovers (2.1) is horrible for a player that projects as a combo guard. Kevin O'Conner is really down on him and has him much lower than others.

What was Hield doing at the same age?

I don't like this kind of comparison.  To me, you draft based on the known talent and perhaps a bit of projection but not too much.

I like that kind of comparison.   Say two kids graduate high school the same year.

One is a 17 year old who finished his Senior year with 3.6 GPA
The other is a 21 year old who finished his Senior year with a 3.8GPA, after failing Senior year 3 times.

Which do you expect will have a better shot of succeeding in College?

You know that comparison is flawed.

It does not matter where Hield was two years ago with respect to Murray. Only with respect to Hield. Maturation is impossible to predict. In one thread someone suggested Ben McLemore might average 50 ppg had he stayed in college. this is obviously ridiculous.

Age is a factor but you cannot apply it like this.

Plus Hield isnt a bit better than Murray like your arbitrary 3.8 vs 3.6 suggests, he has a 4.0.

Lastly, everyone know age is a factor.

You evaluate Hield as a 21 year old with 4 years of experience and Murray as a 19 year old with 1.

[Smartacus]

Kevin O'Conner-

On a related note -- who is Kevin O'Connor and all those other names I can't recognize that started contributing to the front page?

You shouldn't be so dismissive. The guy writes for a bunch of publications and has a very good draft guide. He recently was on a very informative podcast with Sam Vecenie, who is one of the draft guys around.
https://vecenie.com/2016/06/07/game-theory-episode-35-kevin-oconnor-talks-celtics-draft/

He also provides scouting reports for CSNNE
http://www.csnne.com/2016-nba-draft-scouting-report-jamal-murray-kentucky


O'Conner -

Basketball analyst for @SBNation, @DraftExpress and @SportingNews. Boston Celtics writer for @celticsblog. Researcher for Sports Aptitude. Editor for @CSNNE.

This is the first year that I've considered Kevin O'Connor to be a legitimate source rather than just another blogger with an opinion. He's worked hard and deserves the recognition that he's receiving.

That being said I always have and continue to respectfully disagree with a good deal of his draft takes. Different strokes.

[PickNRoll]

Just what we need a fairly above average sg with the #3 pick.   No thanks.  Murray is a good all around player but Bender, Brown, Hield would have had to do something wrong to pass on those guys I think.  We have Marcus and Bradley who are better imo.  We also don't need to follow the Lakers model for success.  Teams are trying to copy the Warriors here moreso and get guys like Steph Curry when not every player is that.

I don't think we should take a sg at all.  I think Brown can at least play other positions.  I would rather trade the pick if Bender isn't as advertised and we feel like Brown can't do some things.

What is average about an 18 year old freshman who scores 20 a game?

[Evantime34]

Just what we need a fairly above average sg with the #3 pick.   No thanks.  Murray is a good all around player but Bender, Brown, Hield would have had to do something wrong to pass on those guys I think.  We have Marcus and Bradley who are better imo.  We also don't need to follow the Lakers model for success.  Teams are trying to copy the Warriors here moreso and get guys like Steph Curry when not every player is that.

I don't think we should take a sg at all.  I think Brown can at least play other positions.  I would rather trade the pick if Bender isn't as advertised and we feel like Brown can't do some things.

What is average about an 18 year old freshman who scores 20 a game?

TP! He's the best freshman scorer in the history of Kentucky, not sure what is average about that.