Author Topic: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt  (Read 4109 times)

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if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« on: June 07, 2016, 05:54:49 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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turner is a nightmare matchup for most teams, where will 2nd team production come from
the celts will have to find a guy who can create, penetrate play multiple positions and rebound
like it or not turner is a gifted basketball player and brad knows how to maximize him-
we won games because our 2nd unit was better and turner off the bench was one of the leagues best-
if isaiah gets hurt there is nobody that can create and get into the paint-not rozier ,not marcus

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 07:30:15 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think the price has to be right.   But I too, like Turner.  I just hope we jettison Sully as the breakdown this year was pathetic.

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 08:14:00 AM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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turner is a nightmare matchup for most teams, where will 2nd team production come from
the celts will have to find a guy who can create, penetrate play multiple positions and rebound
like it or not turner is a gifted basketball player and brad knows how to maximize him-
we won games because our 2nd unit was better and turner off the bench was one of the leagues best-
if isaiah gets hurt there is nobody that can create and get into the paint-not rozier ,not marcus

If all you want is a backup ball handler then they can be had for cheap.

Turner is great because he does that and more. Huge boost for the 2nd unit. I don't know any numbers but I can't see giving him too much as a good idea for the future of this team (and I would like to see him return).
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

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Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 09:07:55 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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amir i have trouble with keeping,jerebko a yes for his spreading the court ,energy and ability to take whatever role he is given-
amir is effective but i can't get used to his unortodox shooting and the sense he is brittle
a year ago i thought zeller would be a long term celt with his % at 16-18ft  and motor with those almost automis flip hooks but last year he just seemed to lose his rythym and confidence-
so to me turner is a offensive glue guy that slots in and would be missed and defencively again rebounds and is able to switch--with the floor spaced there are two guys that benefit isaiah and turner-
how many 6-7 guys got the strength and wiggle of turner-winslow and brown good in open court or going downhill but straight line turner has that special a way of finishing at hoop and is better suited for young players as he is taking some of the pressure off them -any team would like him coming off bench-give him what he deserves and trade him mid season if we can win without him-

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 02:37:49 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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I tried my best to keep up to date with all the conjecture and possibilities, yet the more I think about it, the more it seems to be a waste of time. There are an infinite amount of trades or signings which could happen. We all have our opinions. Thankfully, there will be the draft and Summer Leagues, then Autumn and preseason will be here. No one can possibly say today through conjecture what will probably happen. This is purely a wait and see what happens situation. It is very interesting in the way a good mystery holds one's attention.

Not all conjecture is created equal. I like the conjecture more in regards to this thread. It is a look at actual players on the roster and not hypotheticals about Durant, Howard, Horford, Butler, Love, Bender or name the player we may or may not be rooting for in November to help pile up early season wins.

The basics of the situation tell us that there are too many players for the maximum roster of 15.

I was one of the biggest haters of Evan Turner. I have come around to respect him as a player and dedicated teammate. It will be very interesting to see what happens. I agree with the above that he is a good backup pg and pretty much an all-purpose backup, like the utility infielder. I think there is a good chance he returns for around ten million per year or some form of home discount if another team tries to sign him. Turner doesn't want to leave and Brad likes him.

Sullinger is probably gone. I can't see him returning.

Zeller and Amir are interesting, as is Jerebko. I don't think anyone can predict if they return or not. I suppose all we can say is such and such is okay for such and such a contract.

Amir looked good by the end of the season. Plantar fasciitis doesn't have to be a permanent condition. Maybe he is healed and at the peak of his career? He certainly does look awkward with his put shots close to the rim. But they always seem to go in. I would take a healthy Amir over spending crazy money on Horford. I wouldn't mind Superman for a two year deal, to roll the dice on him, but now I too am going all over the place with conjecture.

I agree the pg position is extremely important. After we lost Rondo to injury a few years ago, we won some games without a traditional pg. But that was a gimmick, a mirage.

I think Marcus Smart and Olynyk are going to emerge next year as quality rotation players. I think Isaiah, Bradley, Crowder and Amir are already there. I think Isaiah is going to take things up a notch and have less turnovers. I think Smart is going to come back shooting better than most think possible.

So we will have a decent core next year no matter what and will win in the 45-55 range. I think people should be patient. This is a work in progress and may or may not become fully shaped with so-called fireworks. Yet, the long-term trajectory should stay intact. Patience is needed?

I am predicting Sullinger, Young and Zeller are gone. I think Jerebko, Amir and Turner will return. I don't think Young's contract is guaranteed. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think Rozier will be the backup pg or third string behind Turner (I know, an easy guess). I think Smart will be concentrating on being a more efficient scorer which means he will probably not play much point guard.

Conjecture. We all do it.

A lot is riding on guys like Olynyk and Smart. If they make strides, then we are extremely close to having a championship roster, considering Danny has a million assets to add one or two very good to great players to that core.

I hope Danny doesn't give away too much to get Love or Okafor. I personally don't believe in either of those players. I am pretty much done with Ty Zeller, although he has been a back of the rotation player for a long time now anyway.

I trust Amir. I admit he seems a bit wobbly, but maybe he has healed himself and he still has many more months to rehab.

It all depends on Danny's looming decisions. If he for example signed Howard for two years at $50 million, then that would probably mean bye bye Amir. I think Jerebko and Turner stay because they are solid, proven players who fill needed roles. I think Jerebko proved himself. You need decent players like that making modest money. I think what is in our favor in regards to Evan Turner is that he seems extremely happy as a Boston Celtic. Turner got smarter with the basketball.

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 03:12:24 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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turner is a nightmare matchup for most teams,
Huh?

He's a bandaid for our own lineup issues. Other teams don't worry about matching up with him at all.

Wings who don't get to the rim or shoot 3s don't scare anyone in this league. Not unless they can shoot like Dirk or Allen, and Turner isn't elite even in his prefered 15-20 ft zone.

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 04:28:55 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Celts need a complete remake up front if they are to get to the next level. They have the goods in the backcourt, but not up front. It's like similar to the Red Sox, who have a terrific lineup, but the pitching lags behind.
 
I hope they will re-sign Turner, because I consider him part of their backcourt and depth at SF. And depth is their strength.

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2016, 01:28:59 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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amir i have trouble with keeping,jerebko a yes for his spreading the court ,energy and ability to take whatever role he is given-
amir is effective but i can't get used to his unortodox shooting and the sense he is brittle
a year ago i thought zeller would be a long term celt with his % at 16-18ft  and motor with those almost automis flip hooks but last year he just seemed to lose his rythym and confidence-
so to me turner is a offensive glue guy that slots in and would be missed and defencively again rebounds and is able to switch--with the floor spaced there are two guys that benefit isaiah and turner-
how many 6-7 guys got the strength and wiggle of turner-winslow and brown good in open court or going downhill but straight line turner has that special a way of finishing at hoop and is better suited for young players as he is taking some of the pressure off them -any team would like him coming off bench-give him what he deserves and trade him mid season if we can win without him-

I agree that we should not pick up Amir's option and just let him go, but when did Tyler Zeller ever have any semblance of a motor, lol?  I think what we saw from Zeller in 14-15 was solely due to Rondo, who has a way of making even a guy like Zeller appear to be a functional NBA player, haha.  Before he was traded, Rondo and Zeller had developed a nice rapport on the court and that proved to be the catalyst for Zeller's play for the rest of the season, but without Rondo serving him great passes on a silver platter, Zeller showed that what happened in 14-15 was fool's gold, imo, anyway. 

In regards to Jerebko, I hope that he's gone, too, and I'd much rather have Caris Levert than Evan Turner.  Like Turner, Levert is an excellent passer who can create his own shot, but actually plays under control.  He's also longer, more athletic, an excellent defender, and has much more range and accuracy on his shot than Evan does, so we wouldn't have to worry about cringing whenever Turner took a 3 ;D. What do you think?

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2016, 01:40:10 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Quote
Sullinger is probably gone. I can't see him returning.

We can only hope.

Quote
I am predicting Sullinger, Young and Zeller are gone. I think Jerebko, Amir and Turner will return. I don't think Young's contract is guaranteed. Maybe I'm wrong.

Again, in regards to the first three, we can only hope.  Unfortunately, per his profile on basketballreference, the Celtics exercised James Young's team option for 2016-17 on October 30 of last year :-\. Ugh. Just thought you should know.

Quote
A lot is riding on guys like Olynyk and Smart. If they make strides, then we are extremely close to having a championship roster, considering Danny has a million assets to add one or two very good to great players to that core.

If we're counting on either one of them to make considerable strides, we're in trouble, but even if they did greatly improve we're still not close to having a championship roster, imo.

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2016, 01:44:51 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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turner is a nightmare matchup for most teams,
Huh?

He's a bandaid for our own lineup issues. Other teams don't worry about matching up with him at all.

Wings who don't get to the rim or shoot 3s don't scare anyone in this league. Not unless they can shoot like Dirk or Allen, and Turner isn't elite even in his prefered 15-20 ft zone.

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Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2016, 01:45:31 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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turner is a nightmare matchup for most teams, where will 2nd team production come from
the celts will have to find a guy who can create, penetrate play multiple positions and rebound
like it or not turner is a gifted basketball player and brad knows how to maximize him-
we won games because our 2nd unit was better and turner off the bench was one of the leagues best-
if isaiah gets hurt there is nobody that can create and get into the paint-not rozier ,not marcus

Rozier could be that guy.  Getting into the paint has been one of his greatest strengths his entire college career, and in his limited minutes as a pro he's shown the ability to blow by defenders and get into the paint with relative ease when he wants to.

With a year of development, he certainly has potential to be that guy.

Still, our lack of a proper backup PG is why I actually wouldn't mind taking Dunn at #3.  Not my first choice, but he's a guy who has the size and scoring prowess to play the shooting guard spot full time, and if IT were to miss time for any reason, he could step over and fill the PG spot without a hitch.

There really isn't any other prospect in the top 8 who has legitimate PG skills beyond Dunn. 

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2016, 02:17:46 AM »

Offline walker834

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Rj was a rookie too last year and had his moments.  It would take a big leap by Smart, Rozier and RJ.  Turner is really our 3rd primary ballhandler. Even 2nd over Smart last year.  I don't think Turner should be signed long term but he's going to be pretty tough to replace this soon.  If he got a 4 year deal we'd still have options to trade him. If it's reasonable.

Rj has range that Turner does not.  Whether we want Rj handling the ball or spotting though. Turner does a good job getting people the ball and driving.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 02:24:08 AM by walker834 »

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 07:30:55 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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Turner can get to the hoop. He also started hitting threes better at the end of the year with a new more fluid method. He can play pg. He does not make as many turnovers as he used to. One sees the phrase Evan Turnover at a much slower rate. Danny lucked out or could see his NBA goodness. Brad Stevens might deserve a lot of credit. Most credit goes to Evan Turner for smoothing out some awkward rough edges with his game.

I don't know if he costs too much. Rollie is correct that if you don't resign Turner, that's going to open up some holes.

The only thing Sully provides is rebounds and some decent passing. He is also somewhat effective against lumbering, old-school centers.

That stuff can be more easily replaced than what we'd lose if Turner doesn't come back. Sullinger is gone.

So the Celtics are stuck with James Young? I hate that. Roster slots are becoming a diminishing resource and Danny should trade Young asap. Who would want him?

Instead of James Young, I'd rather have Phil Pressey as permanent 15th man.

That would solve the Turner problem. Smart is not a good pg. Rozier is still a bit raw. While people write thousands of words on Durant of Butler coming to Boston, players such as Evan Turner are definite decisions that must be made.

Zeller is weak as a center defender. He is okay for offense, but he is a luxury player gobbling up one of the precious 15 slots.

It's very interesting because anything could happen. Danny is known for making trades. We have the #3 pick.

Stevens got his contract extended.

Everything is sunshine. It took Danny Ainge only two or three years to rebuild from rock bottom. Danny is thinking long-term and I doubt he will make any stupid trades. He'd do something like sign Dwight Howard to two years. We'd finally have a true center hungry for respect and glory. A broken down Shaq almost led us to a title. I agree with the above that we are stacked for the little guys and Danny needs to focus on the front court.

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 07:36:14 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Maybe it's just me, but this is how I feel about it:

If Evan leaves, and we don't make any major additions, and keep the same team as last year (plus the pick, minus Evan), we could see a decrease in our wins next season.

Evan came up big for us last season. He was clutch, played the big minutes, and played the role of another go to scorer for us.

I could definitely see us taking a short term decrease in wins, in hopes of getting Marcus more time on the ball.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: if we don't resign turner and isaiah gets hurt
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2016, 07:55:55 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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Smart is not terrible at pg like Bradley. I think he is or will become a mediocre pg. He is not a turnover machine. It's something he would have to learn. It's more important that he work on his jump shot. He's already a genius on one side of the court and underrated on offense. I think he is going to terrorize opponents with drives to the rim. He has had some rare games in which he was lights out at shooting. Marcus Smart could end up the best of them all. He greatly improved on his free throw shooting. I am going all in with Marcus Smart. All the chips. He has the mysterious winner gene.