I fear IT won't last long at this level

[86MaxwellSmart]

Just be grateful he is not fragile like Delonte West....he would have already retired.

Bipolar disorder more to blame than injuries, fwiw.  I loved Delonte!  That kid hustled.

Yeah, but he broke his wrist a couple times--driving to the basket.

[Gahdening]

Post 2018 IT, Bradley and Smart will all be FAs, the first two,UFA, Marcus, RFA. Bradley and IT would need to demonstrate good health and consistent play at their current level ( they're at their ceilings, more or less). Smart will need to improve offensively. If they all meet performance goals, I can't see the C's paying $45-60 million to retain all three. Since IT is the oldest (29 at FA), a max may not be prudent if his explosiveness erodes, as age can do to a player of his skills. Either he takes a discount or the C's let him go. The only reason to trade him now is if DA targets Conley, drafts Dunn or Baldwin, or wants Smart to run the team.
But, then he needs to get a volume scorer.

[bdm860]

I want to trade him. Now. Before he becomes an expiring contract.

Before he is due a big payday. IT is not someone I want to give a max contract to. Not sold on IT's value for money at a max contract + I, like the OP, am concerned about how well he'll hold up long term. That max contract will be a 4-5 year deal with 2 years left on his current deal. That is 6-7 years from now. Can IT maintain his performance that long?

I do not want to try trading IT as an expiring deal when his value is way down. Nor do I want to pay him when his contract is up. I think now is the best time to trade him.

Do you think Danny would pay him max money though?  I think Danny's stone cold and doesn't let emotion effect his decisions.

Traded Rondo and Perk instead of paying them.  Let Posey and Tony Allen walk instead of paying them.  Sign-and-traded away Antoine instead of paying him.  I believe Perk, Posey, and Antoine all really wanted to come back too.

Didn't re-sign Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen to any crazy Kobe like extensions. 

Plus the man has traded away a lot of fan favorites over the years.

And how often do our own core guys even get to unrestricted free agency?  Danny usually locks them up with either a fair market or below market value extension before they get to free agency or trades them away.  Personally I don't think Danny will give IT the max, but will probably give him a healthy 3 year extension sometime after the dominoes have fallen in the '17 free agency class.

[PhoSita]

It's a legitimate concern.

If you look through league history, it is difficult to find examples of score-first guards under 6 feet whose careers lasted very far beyond age 30.

Of course, that's a small sample size, and many of the players you do find in the sample played in a league with a different ruleset.  Perhaps waterbug guards will be able to last longer in today's league without handchecking and more spacing.

JJ Barea is 31 already and he's still playing really well.  He's pretty small, too.

[LooseCannon]

During an appearance on Sirius XM NBA Radio on Tuesday, Thomas added, “I want to change my diet, eat the right way, eat more healthy to prolong my career. I want to try to play until I’m 40. That’s my goal. That’s the biggest thing for me, to take care of my body and transform my body into something that eats right and puts the best things inside my body because I know I need my body. I hit the ground a lot, man, and my body is hurting.”

The way he drives to the hoop, and the hits he takes has me concerned . From an athletic point of view I have read 24-28 are prime years . With his height and now that he is 27, I think he has maybe 3-4 years of prime play .

Anyone else concerned?

This doesn't mean that every player falls off a cliff after age 28.  Also, elite players tend to have longer peaks.  Some people get too concerned over age to the point of not being willing to give a max-length contract to anyone over 30.

[Androslav]

Thomas is a small guard with a playstyle that favors contact.
Smaller guards tend to have earlier primes, also ending earlier. Speed is a huge factor. He can keep this production for the next 2 years imo.
As far as his contract situation goes, I think we will be fine. I am begining to believe that he is a Celtic lifer. I think he would accept less money, even the bench if we are winning in the playoffs. Maybe I am romantizing.
Bradley looks more like an asset losing its value. Due to his questionable durability and future contract situation. We also young Rozier and Smart on the roster. Even thou I love Bradley as a player and a Celtic.
We should keep Thomas and prepare him for the transformation to the 6th man role in the future 2 years.

[celticsclay]

It's a legitimate concern.

If you look through league history, it is difficult to find examples of score-first guards under 6 feet whose careers lasted very far beyond age 30.

Of course, that's a small sample size, and many of the players you do find in the sample played in a league with a different ruleset.  Perhaps waterbug guards will be able to last longer in today's league without handchecking and more spacing.

JJ Barea is 31 already and he's still playing really well.  He's pretty small, too.

Wait who exactly are we talking about here? What players scored over 20 a game, made an all-star game and where under  6 foot?

[alldaboston]

Thomas is a small guard with a playstyle that favors contact.
Smaller guards tend to have earlier primes, also ending earlier. Speed is a huge factor. He can keep this production for the next 2 years imo.
As far as his contract situation goes, I think we will be fine. I am begining to believe that he is a Celtic lifer. I think he would accept less money, even the bench if we are winning in the playoffs. Maybe I am romantizing.
Bradley looks more like an asset losing its value. Due to his questionable durability and future contract situation. We also young Rozier and Smart on the roster. Even thou I love Bradley as a player and a Celtic.
We should keep Thomas and prepare him for the transformation to the 6th man role in the future 2 years.

Agree. I think if he's the sixth man in the year before his free agency then it's much less likely going to require a max. I love Isaiah and I'd love to keep him a Celtic for life.

[Greyman]

If you look to trade away a guy of IT's ability because of what you think 'might' happen then you probably shouldn't have got him and built him into the team's key player and face of the franchise in the first place. It could happen but I doubt DA goes down a path that doesn't include IT over the next few seasons because of fears about his durability and size.

The Celtics may go a different road, there are guards available at the 3 pick who can shoot. IT would be attractive to other teams. Nothing is certain but I believe the organisation will use IT to help build, to attract players rather than be packaged for them.

IT has enough time left at the top to be part of the Celtic's future, especially if he goes to the role of a 6th man in a rebuilt lineup. 

[PhoSita]

It's a legitimate concern.

If you look through league history, it is difficult to find examples of score-first guards under 6 feet whose careers lasted very far beyond age 30.

Of course, that's a small sample size, and many of the players you do find in the sample played in a league with a different ruleset.  Perhaps waterbug guards will be able to last longer in today's league without handchecking and more spacing.

JJ Barea is 31 already and he's still playing really well.  He's pretty small, too.

Wait who exactly are we talking about here? What players scored over 20 a game, made an all-star game and where under  6 foot?

OK, well, there are, as you know, very few players who fit that specific qualification.

But here's a list of guys below 6 foot who scored a lot of points, and a general estimate of when they stopped playing a big role.


Dana Barros, 5'11'', scored 20 ppg his age 27 season, fell off significantly after his age 30 season.

Damon Stoudamire, 5'10'', averaged around 20 ppg his first few seasons (age 22-24), had a pretty good season at age 31, then fell off after that.

Michael Adams, 5'10'', was an All-Star his age 29 season scoring 18 ppg, then began to decline and fell off big time after age 31.

Terrell Brandon, 5'11'', two time All-Star at age 25 and 26 scoring 19 ppg, fell off toward age 30 and didn't play after age 31

Calvin Murphy, 5'9'', All-Star at age 30 scoring 20 ppg, had another 20 ppg season at 31 followed by a decent 16.7 ppg season at 32, then fell off, not playing beyond age 34.

Nate Robinson, 5'9'', career sixth man who peaked at 17 ppg at age 24, had another decent season at 28 for the Bulls, didn't play meaningfully beyond age 30


I'd say Calvin Murphy is a nice best case scenario.  Top-option scoring through age 31, then a few more reasonably productive seasons after that.


Isaiah turned 27 this season.  He'll be 28 next February.

Personally I think it's reasonable to hope for another 3 or 4 seasons of 18-20 ppg level production from Isaiah if he can avoid major injuries (i.e. age 30-31), and then another 2-3 seasons of solid backup type production (e.g. Barea) after that.

[Who]

Some people get too concerned over age to the point of not being willing to give a max-length contract to anyone over 30.

I would love to see the NBA change the rules in the next CBA to only allow the over 30s to 2 year contracts + the over 35s only 1 year extensions. Better for the health of the league.

[Who]

I want to trade him. Now. Before he becomes an expiring contract.

Before he is due a big payday. IT is not someone I want to give a max contract to. Not sold on IT's value for money at a max contract + I, like the OP, am concerned about how well he'll hold up long term. That max contract will be a 4-5 year deal with 2 years left on his current deal. That is 6-7 years from now. Can IT maintain his performance that long?

I do not want to try trading IT as an expiring deal when his value is way down. Nor do I want to pay him when his contract is up. I think now is the best time to trade him.

If you could convince LA that IT and Crowder would help them draw free agents this summer and next (they are the type of cost-controlled high-end role players/borderline stars that form the foundation around two or so other stars), would you trade IT, Crowder, #16, and the ability to pick swap with our 2018 pick for something like Young and the #2 pick this year?

Definitely. Home-run trade for us.

[Who]

Thomas is a small guard with a playstyle that favors contact.
Smaller guards tend to have earlier primes, also ending earlier. Speed is a huge factor. He can keep this production for the next 2 years imo.
As far as his contract situation goes, I think we will be fine. I am begining to believe that he is a Celtic lifer. I think he would accept less money, even the bench if we are winning in the playoffs. Maybe I am romantizing.
Bradley looks more like an asset losing its value. Due to his questionable durability and future contract situation. We also young Rozier and Smart on the roster. Even thou I love Bradley as a player and a Celtic.
We should keep Thomas and prepare him for the transformation to the 6th man role in the future 2 years.

Agree. I think if he's the sixth man in the year before his free agency then it's much less likely going to require a max. I love Isaiah and I'd love to keep him a Celtic for life.

Isaiah won't be willing to go back to that 6th man. Not after the season he just had.

His ego is too big.

[PhoSita]

As for the concern for Isaiah re: injuries, he's played 5 full seasons so far in his career and the fewest games he's played in a season is 65.  This season he played a full 82, and twice before he's played at least 72 games.

Given that, I'd say that so far there's some concern about him missing games, but not a ton.  Not more than the average guard.  He doesn't have that much wear and tear on him since he came into the league at age 22 and has only averaged more than 30 mpg in two seasons so far.

[alldaboston]

Thomas is a small guard with a playstyle that favors contact.
Smaller guards tend to have earlier primes, also ending earlier. Speed is a huge factor. He can keep this production for the next 2 years imo.
As far as his contract situation goes, I think we will be fine. I am begining to believe that he is a Celtic lifer. I think he would accept less money, even the bench if we are winning in the playoffs. Maybe I am romantizing.
Bradley looks more like an asset losing its value. Due to his questionable durability and future contract situation. We also young Rozier and Smart on the roster. Even thou I love Bradley as a player and a Celtic.
We should keep Thomas and prepare him for the transformation to the 6th man role in the future 2 years.

Agree. I think if he's the sixth man in the year before his free agency then it's much less likely going to require a max. I love Isaiah and I'd love to keep him a Celtic for life.

Isaiah won't be willing to go back to that 6th man. Not after the season he just had.

His ego is too big.

If smart has a breakout year, and if Isaiah isn't an all star, I could see Isaiah taking one for the team and going back to being a 6th man.