Author Topic: It's a mental thing right?  (Read 3327 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

It's a mental thing right?
« on: April 27, 2016, 03:26:16 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
The Celtics and Hawks are roughly even in terms of talent and production this year. They finished with the same record. Im not making any statement on who is better, just that they are in the same ball park right? Most would expect neither to make the finals while saying both deserve to be in the playoffs. So each team winning at home is a pretty predictable thing. But the mental lapses we have had? The 7 point quarter? The squandering a 10 point lead into a 20 something point deficit very quickly? What gives? The Hawks have been respectable in their losses, and except for one almost comeback 2nd half we have not. i know there are injuries- guys out and guys less than 100%, but it still doesn't add up to me.

I think the noise is getting to some of our guys. Anyone have any incite on this? How it could be fixed?

I'm not trying to be too negative. If we lose game 6, we will have done ok to well for the season given our talent level. But, if we want to go on thinking we have something very very special in CBS, Smart, Crowder IT and others, things need to change. I really want to believe that comethe summer we are ok with just small upgrades because we have a good thing going- like I felt last summer, and we were ok. But it's looking like there is some real mental weakness here. Losses are fine. part of the game. But we have gotten embarrassed. It kills me because aside from sully (and these losses are not his fault) I like everyone on the team and just want to add a guy or 2 and run it back again. But, unless we can pull out 2 more respectable games it's looking like that is a bad idea. 

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 03:36:34 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Also a skill thing

In general we have overachieved


Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 03:37:43 PM »

Offline mef730

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4784
  • Tommy Points: 1036
Also a skill thing

Hee hee. TP for being amusing.

Mike

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 03:42:34 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
Also a skill thing

In general we have overachieved
I don't really want to admit that they have more talent than us (they probably do) but they clearly don't have so much more than us that they should be killing us. So many silly turnovers. It's like one we make 5 bad plays in a row we are destined to make 50.

Thinking about it more, what we could really really use is an old vet. If we had PP or KG- even aged another few years there to calm guys down it would do wonders. Getting a solid calming vet is probably the most attainable goal of the offseason.

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 03:51:01 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7022
  • Tommy Points: 468
Also a skill thing

In general we have overachieved
The Hawks definitely have more talent.  And it clear.

But really, I am not sure what we're talking about here.  It's a 3-2 series with each team winning at home.  I mean, five games in SOMEBODY had to be ahead right? 

So what exactly are we trying to explain here.  It pretty much it what it is supposed to be.  Unless of course you were under a misguided notion that we were actually much better than atl.

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 03:58:01 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 63316
  • Tommy Points: -25459
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Also an injury thing. Bradley is hugely important.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 04:05:28 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
Also a skill thing

In general we have overachieved
The Hawks definitely have more talent.  And it clear.

But really, I am not sure what we're talking about here.  It's a 3-2 series with each team winning at home.  I mean, five games in SOMEBODY had to be ahead right? 

So what exactly are we trying to explain here.  It pretty much it what it is supposed to be.  Unless of course you were under a misguided notion that we were actually much better than atl.

Yeah, I'm not shocked by the 3-2 thing. It is just how it happened. I know we are without arguably our best player and another arguable best player is less than 100 (and KO too.) But we shouldn't be giving up. We shouldn't be turning the ball over off inbound passes. What I want to talk about is not the losses but the way in which we are losing and what that tells us going forward.

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 04:07:17 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
They're in the same ball-park but the biggest difference is the Hawks are a much better shooting team.

This would be true even if AB and KO were healthy but obviously it's greatly exacerbated by their absence.

If the Celts were better on the boards, or at getting to the line, they could win despite the shooting disparity.  Unfortunately, the Celts are very poor in those categories, especially compared to most playoff teams.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 04:39:07 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
They're in the same ball-park but the biggest difference is the Hawks are a much better shooting team.

This would be true even if AB and KO were healthy but obviously it's greatly exacerbated by their absence.

If the Celts were better on the boards, or at getting to the line, they could win despite the shooting disparity.  Unfortunately, the Celts are very poor in those categories, especially compared to most playoff teams.

Yeah, it is a bad matchup. Even if we say the talent is even they matchup better. But they shouldn't be killing us. How does a team win 2 in a row and then get spanked? How do you score 7 points in a quarter? There is a mental breakdown. It started a few weeks to go in the regular season. it's a loss of confidence. When you think your shot is going to go in, somehow it has a better chance to. Thats why the nba is full of 10+ point streaks.

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 04:58:22 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
So If you are Ainge and you decide that the team overall is on the right track, but at the same time got beat mentally who do you blame and try to trade?

Lets look at who we can't blame, young guys and injured guys. Who is left? If we lose again like this someone is taking heat. IT, Jerebko, Turner, Amir, Sully, and CBS.

Obvously Sully sucks- aside from hitting some shots (which a lot of us could hit) it just feels like every time he touches the ball something bad is going to happen, ever time his man gets the ball he is going to score. But this is a known deficiency. A small part of the problem.

Turner has been pretty good.

So has Amir in the limited role he has.

To blame Jerebko seems unfair. He is a role player stepping up.

I'm not going to turn on the coach.

So IT? He can obviously score, but not 30 points every night. The real question is, can he be a great 6th man again (or 2nd or 3rd scorer) when we get some help. He wants to be an all time great. For sure he does. His back is against the wall now. 2 more 30+ point wins and who cares what happens againt the Cavs. Another egg of a game and we need to ask how can trading IT on his cheap contract ring in help at the 4 or 5?

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 05:19:02 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Tommy Points: 862
They're in the same ball-park but the biggest difference is the Hawks are a much better shooting team.

This would be true even if AB and KO were healthy but obviously it's greatly exacerbated by their absence.

If the Celts were better on the boards, or at getting to the line, they could win despite the shooting disparity.  Unfortunately, the Celts are very poor in those categories, especially compared to most playoff teams.

Yeah, it is a bad matchup. Even if we say the talent is even they matchup better. But they shouldn't be killing us. How does a team win 2 in a row and then get spanked? How do you score 7 points in a quarter? There is a mental breakdown. It started a few weeks to go in the regular season. it's a loss of confidence. When you think your shot is going to go in, somehow it has a better chance to. Thats why the nba is full of 10+ point streaks.

At some point, reality has to hit.

Even WITH a healthy Avery, KO & Jae, this team was 4th worst in FG% and 3rd worst in 3PT%.

Take those guys away, and this is a terrible outside shooting team.   Horrific in fact.  Isaiah and Jonas are the only other guys who shot above 30% from three.

Our half-court offense is predicated on getting penetration into the paint, primarily by Isaiah but also by Evan and by Amir on rolls.   
So for a good defensive team like Atlanta, the defensive scheme is straightforward:  Pack the paint and swarm Isaiah, at first when he had the ball, but in this last game, also to mug him constantly when he's trying to move off the ball.   In last night, not only did they swarm to him when he had the ball, but they also did their best to deny him getting the ball.   Isaiah was held to only 74 touches, compared to 92.5 per game in the first four games.  Basically, Atlanta is doing everything to remove the use of the paint and Isaiah from the offense and are completely allowing the rest of the the Celtics to try to shoot their way to a victory from the outside.

If you look at the contested shots stats and the shot locations, the C's actually did generate plenty of decent looks last night.  They had a boat load of open threes and shots within 8 feet of the hoop. But they missed them at a terrible rate.

In the cozy confines of the Garden, the team made those shots and we won.   Atlanta is betting that the Cs will not be able to make enough of those shots to win the series.   Unless we can shoot better on the road, they will be right.

How much of that is 'mental'?  I dunno.  Shooting skill does have a 'mental' aspect to it.   Would having more veterans on the team help?  Maybe.   Veteran shooters may be more consistent and less prone to streakiness.  Or not.  I remember Jason Terry, a pretty steady 3PT shooter for most of his career, went through two consecutive seasons where he shot fantastic (43%) at home and horrible (31%) on the road.  This extreme split afflicted both his last season in Dallas and then the next season with us.   After he left Boston, that bizarre road split went away.  He actually shot slightly _better_ on the road the next two seasons.  Go figure.

But aside from the question of streakiness, it is definitely the case that veterans tend to shoot better than really young players.  The vast majority of players shoot their worse FG% during their rookie and second seasons of their career.

I think that, ultimately, we just plain need better shooters on the team.  In some cases, that means we need different players.  But it also could just mean we need some of our young players to have more experience. 
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 05:33:37 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20148
  • Tommy Points: 1335
Quote
If the Celts were better on the boards, or at getting to the line, they could win despite the shooting disparity.

The NO show from Sully really helped the Hawks, but I think this will be the final nail in his coffin.

Quote
Obvously Sully sucks- aside from hitting some shots (which a lot of us could hit) it just feels like every time he touches the ball something bad is going to happen, ever time his man gets the ball he is going to score. But this is a known deficiency. A small part of the problem.

I concur.

Quote
To blame Jerebko seems unfair. He is a role player stepping up.

I think he changed the energy of the team and has filled in admirably. 

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2016, 05:34:34 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
The ride this season has been spectacular. But we've maxed out what we could have ever hoped to achieve with this team. We've hit our ceiling. We just need plain better players next season.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2016, 05:50:25 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
I think I figured it out. It is a mental thing, its a lot of guys not wanting to step up. For 3 quarters of game 6 we made too many extra passes. With time already off the shot clock and a few passes already made, time and time again guys would pass up an open shot to someone else. Everyone wanted to be the guy who made the easy pass to the guy who won the game, no one wanted to win it. No one wanted to step up when the lights were on them. That's been our problem. CBS bascailly said the same thing in a timeout.

The hesitancy is contagious. You start passing up shots and everyone starts thinking shots won't go in.

Re: It's a mental thing right?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2016, 06:21:47 PM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
I think Bradley and Olynyk's shooting were a big part of the reason the team was better this year.  Both became very legit three point shooters.   Before we were a team based around space that couldn't actually shoot.  With both hurt, we were that again, if better in other ways.  But another major way the team was better was Crowder stepping up on offense, and he was also hurt.  The injuries were devastating.

Bradley put up 15 ppg this year, Olynyk 10, Crowder 14 (and again I think he was significantly slowed on offense).  That's a lot of points to make up.  It's not like we have some star who is sacrificing shots and can pick up the load by taking more if a guy goes down.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford