Author Topic: Wanted: two shooters  (Read 5318 times)

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Wanted: two shooters
« on: April 20, 2016, 09:46:19 AM »

Offline loco_91

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In contrast to the prevailing narrative, I don't think the C's need a superstar to take the next step as a team. Obviously, it would help. But the core problem with this team is a lack of shooting, not a lack of shot creation. All year the C's got tons of open looks, they just didn't make them.

1. We need a stretch 4 who can start. That could be Olynyk if he steps up his game, but it's more likely to be someone else. It's clearly not Sully - Hawks showed a willingness to just abandon him in the mid-range, and he isn't a good enough shooter to make that shot a valuable one. Not to say that we shouldn't keep Sully, but if we do, then we need to replace Amir in the starting lineup (he only plays 20mpg anyway). I don't think there's anyone we could draft that would fill this role right away, but there are multiple good FA options: Ryan Anderson, Chandler Parsons, Nicolas Batum, Harrison Barnes. Of the four I like Parsons best.

2. We need a wing shooter off the bench. It doesn't seem tenable to play Smart and Turner together, even if the other 3 players are all shooters. Turner has played well enough that somebody is going to overpay him. Let him walk, and draft a guy who's going to space the floor. Ingram with the Bkn pick, obviously, and my latest binkie with the Mavs pick is Furkan Korkmaz.

My ideal non-superstar scenario is that we land Simmons + Korkmaz and sign Parsons to the small max (~$22m/yr). Parsons can start at PF (he's 6'10 and he's been effective in that role during his career). Korkmaz + Olynyk will come off the bench with Simmons + Smart to mitigate their lack of spacing, and Smart's ability to guard 1-3 lets you play any of IT, AB, Crowder, or Parsons with the bench unit.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 10:03:17 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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While I'd love a superstar, this team won 48 games with what they had during the regular season. It's currently looking like they will get eliminated in the first round but their top 4 players are all either out with an injury or playing hurt.

If they replace Sully, Zeller, and Holland with a top 5 pick and a free agent or two like Dudley, Bazemore, Eric Gordon, Mahinmi, Teletovic or Marvin Williams then I think you are looking at a 50 win team and a top 3 seed in the East.

I disagree that Simmons would come off the bench if we drafted him one. I think he would immediately be an upgrade at the 4. A lineup of Olynyk, Simmons, Crowder, Bradley and Thomas would be a terror on the fast break, have 4 shooters around Simmons and probably have enough rebounding with Simmons and Olynyk combined.
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
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Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 10:04:23 AM »

Offline LGC88

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And be the next Hawks?
I have higher expectations and I believe Danny too.
Danny will do his best to get a player of the caliber of KD or PG13.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 10:10:11 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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And be the next Hawks?
I have higher expectations and I believe Danny too.
Danny will do his best to get a player of the caliber of KD or PG13.
The thing is, getting a superstar via trade isn't about how hard your gm tries. It is about the right situation arising and having the assets to get something done.

Obviously the superstar is the best option, but that doesn't mean we need one. I'm not looking forward to an offseason of everyone crying because we couldn't get a star which is why it's important to point out that if we don't get a star we could still be a 50+ win extremely young team with room for growth.

Paying to trade for a star in their prime is less effective than building a culture in which a star can develop.
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2016, 10:10:29 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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But the core problem with this team is a lack of shooting, not a lack of shot creation.
Our go-to-guy stands at 5' 10". To my way of thinking, we cannot contend for the title while having IT as the focal point of our offense.

sign Parsons to the small max (~$22m/yr). Parsons can start at PF (he's 6'10 and he's been effective in that role during his career)
Wow, that's a huge overpay for Parsons.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:31:59 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2016, 10:20:22 AM »

Offline loco_91

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While I'd love a superstar, this team won 48 games with what they had during the regular season. It's currently looking like they will get eliminated in the first round but their top 4 players are all either out with an injury or playing hurt.

If they replace Sully, Zeller, and Holland with a top 5 pick and a free agent or two like Dudley, Bazemore, Eric Gordon, Mahinmi, Teletovic or Marvin Williams then I think you are looking at a 50 win team and a top 3 seed in the East.

I disagree that Simmons would come off the bench if we drafted him one. I think he would immediately be an upgrade at the 4. A lineup of Olynyk, Simmons, Crowder, Bradley and Thomas would be a terror on the fast break, have 4 shooters around Simmons and probably have enough rebounding with Simmons and Olynyk combined.

Yeah, I agree that you could start Simmons + Olynyk. I'd worry a bit about the 2nd unit, but if you add that much talent, there are multiple ways to make lineups work.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2016, 10:26:39 AM »

Offline loco_91

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Our go-to-guy stands at 5' 10". To my way of thinking, we cannot contend for the title while having IT as the focal point of our offense.

I thought IT silenced this narrative, but it rears its head again every time the C's lose. IT can absolutely be the focal point, but he does need a better #2 option than AB. Parsons would fit the bill perfectly.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 10:37:27 AM »

Offline Smart457

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Good post. I've been saying that same thing on here last couple weeks.

Ainge has done a terrific job at finding guys who are all around solid players but he hasn't added any knock down shooters to the team. We need some.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 10:49:47 AM »

Online Who

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A center like Marc Gasol (or Al Horford) with his passing and midrange shooting would make a bigger impact offensively than a stretch 4. The team needs a big man who can facilitate the offense more than a big man three point shooter.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:55:47 AM by Who »

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 10:52:07 AM »

Offline LGC88

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And be the next Hawks?
I have higher expectations and I believe Danny too.
Danny will do his best to get a player of the caliber of KD or PG13.
The thing is, getting a superstar via trade isn't about how hard your gm tries. It is about the right situation arising and having the assets to get something done.

Obviously the superstar is the best option, but that doesn't mean we need one. I'm not looking forward to an offseason of everyone crying because we couldn't get a star which is why it's important to point out that if we don't get a star we could still be a 50+ win extremely young team with room for growth.

Paying to trade for a star in their prime is less effective than building a culture in which a star can develop.

All I'm saying is that I don't think Danny will commit long term with another couple of good players for this team to be a better playoff team. He wants to be on top and get that franchise player that will unfold all the dominoes.
I believe in the Celtics during the regular season. They could even lock #1 like Atlanta did.
But I will never believe this type of team will win a championship ever. And adding 2 great shooters won't change anything.
Not only we need a player like KD that will make everybody better, we also need players that will spread the floor for him or create their own shot.
We also need a top defender guy that can defend on the lebron and PG13 of the league.
At last, we also need decent bigs that can match up with any situation and team we face.
That's a lot more than just having 2 shooters on the team.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 11:03:16 AM »

Offline loco_91

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And be the next Hawks?
I have higher expectations and I believe Danny too.
Danny will do his best to get a player of the caliber of KD or PG13.
The thing is, getting a superstar via trade isn't about how hard your gm tries. It is about the right situation arising and having the assets to get something done.

Obviously the superstar is the best option, but that doesn't mean we need one. I'm not looking forward to an offseason of everyone crying because we couldn't get a star which is why it's important to point out that if we don't get a star we could still be a 50+ win extremely young team with room for growth.

Paying to trade for a star in their prime is less effective than building a culture in which a star can develop.

All I'm saying is that I don't think Danny will commit long term with another couple of good players for this team to be a better playoff team. He wants to be on top and get that franchise player that will unfold all the dominoes.
I believe in the Celtics during the regular season. They could even lock #1 like Atlanta did.
But I will never believe this type of team will win a championship ever. And adding 2 great shooters won't change anything.
Not only we need a player like KD that will make everybody better, we also need players that will spread the floor for him or create their own shot.
We also need a top defender guy that can defend on the lebron and PG13 of the league.
At last, we also need decent bigs that can match up with any situation and team we face.
That's a lot more than just having 2 shooters on the team.

I'm not saying we should go after Parsons *instead* of KD, that would be insane. But it's not KD or bust. It's not championship or bust. We took a big step this year. Next year we can hope for KD to choose Boston, but what we should expect is incremental progress. A good FA signing. A promising rookie. Player development. Low-50's wins. A playoff run. A better pitch to FA's in 2017.

You said it yourself: "Not only we need a player like KD that will make everybody better, we also need players that will spread the floor for him or create their own shot." So would you complain if we got those players this offseason?

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2016, 11:05:43 AM »

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Nikola Mirotic would be a good guy to target. More of a bigger combo forward. A PF/SF rather than a SF/PF. A bit more size. More rebounding. Good passing ability and a solid handle to go along with the three point range. Still developing defensively but shows some ability there.

More of a two way player than a Ryan Anderson type (defensive liability) and Mirotic is more versatile offensively than R.Anderson too with Mirotic's superior ball-handling and passing.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2016, 11:29:47 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I like the idea of signing Barnes and Anderson at 18 million each as well as trading for Cousins on draft night. Also sign DMontie low cost to play backup center. He is coming off injury plagued season so may sign cheap 1 year deal.
 Rozier, Hunter, KO, AJ, Nets 2016, C's 2016, Wolves 2016 2nd and Nets 2018 for Cousins.

Dallas pick take Korkmaz. Philly pick get Thon Maker. 45 take Yogi, 51 Finn-Smith, 58 Warney.



Starters=IT, AB, Barnes, Anderson, Cousins
Bench=Smart, Korkmaz, Jae, Mickey, DMontie
Reserves=Yogi, Young, Finn, Warney, Maker

That greatly improves your offense and overall talent level.

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2016, 11:39:05 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Nikola Mirotic would be a good guy to target. More of a bigger combo forward. A PF/SF rather than a SF/PF. A bit more size. More rebounding. Good passing ability and a solid handle to go along with the three point range. Still developing defensively but shows some ability there.

More of a two way player than a Ryan Anderson type (defensive liability) and Mirotic is more versatile offensively than R.Anderson too with Mirotic's superior ball-handling and passing.
You think maybe Dallas or C's first for Mirotic?

Re: Wanted: two shooters
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2016, 11:44:51 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I like the idea of signing Barnes and Anderson at 18 million each as well as trading for Cousins on draft night. Also sign DMontie low cost to play backup center. He is coming off injury plagued season so may sign cheap 1 year deal.
 Rozier, Hunter, KO, AJ, Nets 2016, C's 2016, Wolves 2016 2nd and Nets 2018 for Cousins.

Dallas pick take Korkmaz. Philly pick get Thon Maker. 45 take Yogi, 51 Finn-Smith, 58 Warney.



Starters=IT, AB, Barnes, Anderson, Cousins
Bench=Smart, Korkmaz, Jae, Mickey, DMontie
Reserves=Yogi, Young, Finn, Warney, Maker

That greatly improves your offense and overall talent level.
If we sign Barnes, I'd just start him and Crowder at the 3/4. Anderson is a good shooter but he's a horrid defender, I'd rather have Dudley at half the price.

I don't like planning the offseason around trading for a star, because we don't know if a star will be available or what the asking price on that star will be. If it's possible, I'd love Cousins and Barnes as our two key additions.

Is Korkmaz coming over right away?
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19