AB finishes 6th for DPOY award

[sofutomygaha]

Voters see that the Celtics are one of the top defensive teams in the league and say to themselves, "well crap, SOMEONE must be good." No one believes that Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Tyler Zeller or Jared Sullinger are plus defenders.

That means that there was a gentle push for voters to strongly consider Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson, and Olynyk. Of that group, Bradley has the reputation and Bradley put in the most minutes.

[alldaboston]

Voters see that the Celtics are one of the top defensive teams in the league and say to themselves, "well crap, SOMEONE must be good." No one believes that Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Tyler Zeller or Jared Sullinger are plus defenders.

That means that there was a gentle push for voters to strongly consider Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson, and Olynyk. Of that group, Bradley has the reputation and Bradley put in the most minutes.

Or, you know, he's actually a good defender and people legit realize that.

[dannyboy35]

Smart is a very good defender but he has trouble vs point guards while Bradley can do both. That may change in the future but to me it's not even close. More of the Smart hype train. I love the dude's effort but I'm glad that ( to me) the voting was fair.  With Bradley out it would be nice if he could cover Teague but I just don't think he has the quickness. I'd love to eat those words but I think even Rozier would do a better job.

[sofutomygaha]

Voters see that the Celtics are one of the top defensive teams in the league and say to themselves, "well crap, SOMEONE must be good." No one believes that Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Tyler Zeller or Jared Sullinger are plus defenders.

That means that there was a gentle push for voters to strongly consider Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson, and Olynyk. Of that group, Bradley has the reputation and Bradley put in the most minutes.

Or, you know, he's actually a good defender and people legit realize that.

Maybe, but with most of the other dudes on the list there's some stat you can point to. For instance, every year like the top 3 block leaders always show up on this list (Whiteside, Gobert, Jordan). The top guys in the cooked-up plus minus stats get in there (Green, Leonard, Gobert, Allen). Maybe somebody crushes something else like getting a ton of steals at an off-ball position (Millsap, Allen) or having an insanely low opponent FG% (Gobert).

Bradley's an outlier. He doesn't show up on any statistical leaderboards. The only stat people can really point to is Celtics team stats ('cause he's playing practically all the time).

[LooseCannon]

so does it also mean he will make all defensive team?

I think it's the same voting panel. It's funny that he's the top-voted guard in the DPOY, but I'll bet you he probably won't make first-team all-defense.

and why is that? this is a real question since i dont know much about the mechanics of the selection process.

thanks.

It should be different voters.

For DPOY, you get to vote for a first, second, and third choice.  The award is biased towards big men, so a lot of voters will have three frontcourt players on their ballot.  So it is very possible that many of those voters think there are at least two guards better than Bradley, but don't have any guards at all on their ballot.  Bradley was only named on 12 out of 130 ballots, so it is unclear if he has a few rabid fans or widespread support.

[apc]

What? no love for Kobe the defender?
 

[jpotter33]

so does it also mean he will make all defensive team?

I think it's the same voting panel. It's funny that he's the top-voted guard in the DPOY, but I'll bet you he probably won't make first-team all-defense.

and why is that? this is a real question since i dont know much about the mechanics of the selection process.

thanks.

It should be different voters.

For DPOY, you get to vote for a first, second, and third choice.  The award is biased towards big men, so a lot of voters will have three frontcourt players on their ballot.  So it is very possible that many of those voters think there are at least two guards better than Bradley, but don't have any guards at all on their ballot.  Bradley was only named on 12 out of 130 ballots, so it is unclear if he has a few rabid fans or widespread support.

I believe the media votes on DPOY and the coaches vote on All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams. I thought that I saw Forsberg say that somewhere.

[kozlodoev]

I believe the media votes on DPOY and the coaches vote on All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams. I thought that I saw Forsberg say that somewhere.

Nope, media vote on the all-defensive teams as well, unless it changed in the last couple of years.

[jpotter33]

I believe the media votes on DPOY and the coaches vote on All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams. I thought that I saw Forsberg say that somewhere.

Nope, media vote on the all-defensive teams as well, unless it changed in the last couple of years.

I think it did change, or Forsberg needs a new job. 

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/722054492640960512

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4722655/peers-stumping-for-avery-bradley-in-firstteamalldefense-campaign

[kozlodoev]

I believe the media votes on DPOY and the coaches vote on All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams. I thought that I saw Forsberg say that somewhere.

Nope, media vote on the all-defensive teams as well, unless it changed in the last couple of years.

I think it did change, or Forsberg needs a new job. 

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/722054492640960512

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4722655/peers-stumping-for-avery-bradley-in-firstteamalldefense-campaign

Unless it changed THIS YEAR, he definitely does.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/05/20/2014-15-nba-all-defensive-team-official-release/

Media voted for this as early as 2014, I was too lazy to check further back.

[jpotter33]

I believe the media votes on DPOY and the coaches vote on All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams. I thought that I saw Forsberg say that somewhere.

Nope, media vote on the all-defensive teams as well, unless it changed in the last couple of years.

I think it did change, or Forsberg needs a new job. 

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/722054492640960512

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4722655/peers-stumping-for-avery-bradley-in-firstteamalldefense-campaign

Unless it changed THIS YEAR, he definitely does.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/05/20/2014-15-nba-all-defensive-team-official-release/

Well, this is screwy.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/awards/all_defensive_teams_player_1st.htm


Ah, Wikipedia says this:

"Prior to the 2013–14 NBA season, voting was performed by the NBA head coaches, who were restricted from voting for players on their own team."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team

So then they must have just changed it in the last two to three years I guess.

Here's the source the Wikipedia page used: http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/7925

So apparently this doesn't seem to be a well-known thing, because you have beat writers even confused on this.

[LooseCannon]

I believe the media votes on DPOY and the coaches vote on All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams. I thought that I saw Forsberg say that somewhere.

Nope, media vote on the all-defensive teams as well, unless it changed in the last couple of years.

And I believe they don't give individual media members votes on every award, so that you will have different groups voting on different awards.  They do release votes, so you can see the one idiot who left Kawhi off his ballot.

[Smartacus]

Smart is a very good defender but he has trouble vs point guards while Bradley can do both. That may change in the future but to me it's not even close. More of the Smart hype train. I love the dude's effort but I'm glad that ( to me) the voting was fair.  With Bradley out it would be nice if he could cover Teague but I just don't think he has the quickness. I'd love to eat those words but I think even Rozier would do a better job.

I think they put out a similar net output defensively. Smart has the size and strength to guard up on some players and Bradley has the quickness to keep up with the most explosive guards in the league.

If you count rebounding as a defensive stat Smart probably has the edge but then Bradley has the more natural athleticism to allow him to be a bit more mobile. Its one of those things that would be close to impossible to measure, but the threat of Bradley leaking out on a fast break can put pressure on the opposing offense as well as running his matchup through screens which could tire his defender out, limiting him on the other end. Read somewhere the other day that Bradley had the lowest body fat percentage of his draft class.

Ya gotta feel for Bradley, thought he was looking poised to join the ranks of elite young guards this playoffs. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

[mctyson]

This is an honest question, not rhetorical: How good is Bradley's defense, really? I sometimes feel he's the beneficiary of the reputation he earned early in his career pickpocketing opposing guards. Sometimes watching him I don't feel he's positioned well. Other times I think he's tremendous. I remember hearing that the advanced stats for defense are very favorable towards him. But I was curious to hear what others think.

It is hard to measure one person's impact on the defensive end, unless they are a big that is constantly in the paint blocking shots.

I think it is very simple to see why Avery Bradley is getting the respect he deserves.  First, he was already on an All-NBA Defensive team in his career, so he has always been a good/great defender.   Part of the reason Doc benched Ray in favor of AB was his defense.

Second, especially this year, his ability to defend the best players in the league at the PG/SG position has been clear.  He has been one f the few, if not the only, player who can bother Steph Curry.  He bothers Damian Lillard.  He bothers Chris Paul.  They know this, their coaches know this, and the reporters who follow those teams know this.  Hence the vote.

Third, and the most important point:  AB is a 6'2" shooting guard without much handle (in NBA terms) who is not a good playmaker/distributor (in NBA terms) and is a decent shooter (in NBA terms).  Those guys typically do not make rosters in the league.  AB starts.  And that is because his perimeter, on the ball-defense is exceptional, in NBA terms.

[chambers]

Voters see that the Celtics are one of the top defensive teams in the league and say to themselves, "well crap, SOMEONE must be good." No one believes that Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Tyler Zeller or Jared Sullinger are plus defenders.

That means that there was a gentle push for voters to strongly consider Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson, and Olynyk. Of that group, Bradley has the reputation and Bradley put in the most minutes.

Or, you know, he's actually a good defender and people legit realize that.

Maybe, but with most of the other dudes on the list there's some stat you can point to. For instance, every year like the top 3 block leaders always show up on this list (Whiteside, Gobert, Jordan). The top guys in the cooked-up plus minus stats get in there (Green, Leonard, Gobert, Allen). Maybe somebody crushes something else like getting a ton of steals at an off-ball position (Millsap, Allen) or having an insanely low opponent FG% (Gobert).

Bradley's an outlier. He doesn't show up on any statistical leaderboards. The only stat people can really point to is Celtics team stats ('cause he's playing practically all the time).

The problem for Avery is that when he comes off, Marcus Smart usually stays in with Crowder.
So our defensive numbers are excellent when Bradley is in the game, without the drop that you'd see when these other top defenders on the All defensive list come out of their respective games.

If there were no Crowder and no Smart, Bradley's numbers would be excellent statistically.