Best scenario for Simmons. Celtics winning lottery.

[walker834]

His one year in College is basically meaningless.  He's 19 years old.  I think it's about taking the best talent period though for the celtics. If Bird and Magic are in the same draft interesting scenario there.   

I think Bender and Simmons are the two top talents in this draft.  They are those type of talents.  I think because bender is 18 and isn't producing you don't judge him by that either.  Both are foreign prospects. 

Simmons came to the states and got a year of college basketball under his belt.

Ingram to me is a step below as far as upside just from what I've seen.   

NEither of these guys are bird and magic johnson.  They are young players in todays game with that kind of talent.  They are not developed like that however. Probably never will be. Most nba players today aren't.  It's a totally different game and more caters to athleticism and speed and certain skillsets vs how Bird and Magic had to get by.

[chambers]

Anyone whos followed Simmons the past few years knows that he's a killer. He's got the scowl needed to succeed at the next level and he's got that one in a billion combination (like Lebron) of size, coordination and body control. He's also got the handles of a point guard and the jumping ability of a pogo stick.

Brandon Ingram has very solid potential. Because of his shooting, he may even be a safer bet than Simmons to become an All star caliber player. But if Simmons works hard enough and develops a 35% 3 point shot and is at least average from 20-15 feet he can be one of the all time greats.
Human beings don't come around that often in the gene pool combining size and athleticism with co-ordination.

How many guys that size, that fast, that athletic, are truly ambidextrous and can pass that well?

I also find it funny how many of his critics here who are suggesting hesgot attitude issues will defend DeMarcus Cousins' proven, repeated bullcrap and childish behavior and dump on big Ben.
We are funny with our biases sometimes.

[walker834]

I  agree Simmons plays with good focus.   He's got the mindset to succeed in the nba. He'll be a top player along with guys like Curry

I think judging one guy as that and knocking another for the same things is a bit unfair and not truthful though.

I think with these top guys its about talent level and skillset and focus and all that. I don't see anything from ingram that separates him or puts him above a guy like simmons.  Hield maybe plays with that extra edge a bit..  I think barring simmons doing something stupid or injuries he'll be good.  I'd rather hope for the best though. I dont really see that with him.

Ingram might fit us a bit better than Simmons.  Same with Hield.  But i dont think they are on his level as far as a talent.  I wouldnt draft either over Simmons because I just dont see them on his level. 

I think Simmons is a great talent.  He's right there with guys like wiggins and towns and okafor and parker in recent drafts.  I'd probably put him ahead of those guys too.   I like him better.

Bender to me is a darkhorse and a bit of an unknown who could be right there and I'd look closely at him.  The next couple drafts too to see if there is anyone possibly even better than him.

The way i see it this is working out perfectly for us because we got Smart and we are up even higher in the draft we should be. Next year is similar where we have another shot though.

The nets should be pretty bad again but im not banking on that.  This is a big draft for us by my estimation.

[KGs Knee]

How is Boston getting the number one pick the best scenario for Simmons?

If Boston gets the number one pick they're taking Ingram. Ingram is going to be a better pro than Simmons. It's just so painfully obvious when you watch each player actually play.

[Roy H.]

Imagine what he could do with a 6'10" Oscar Robertson type of talent

Some fans are going to be incredibly disappointed if these are their expectations.

I think Magic Johnson is probably a closer comparison myself.

I don't think there has ever been a 6'10" big man who can run, pass and dribble like Simmons can.  Magic (at 6'9") would be I think the only one that comes close to that.

Magic had the athleticism, passing ability and ball handling ability of a Point Guard, with the size and strength of a power forward.   He was a very good scorer,  but he was never really known as a great jump shooter or an especially great defensive player.   

He was however, a man who could play any position on the court - and he still remains one of the all time NBA leaders in triple doubles. 

I look at those two guys and I see so many similarities.  I doubt Simmons will ever be as good as Magic, but I think he could become a slightly less dominant version of Magic.

A slightly lesser version of the best PG of all-time?

Sounds reasonable.

[crimson_stallion]

As a celtics fan I will agree that Simmons couldn't carry Magic's jockstrap.   I was lucky enough to grow up watching this stuff.  No wonder people today are so negative.

You're comparing Magic Johnson's play as a veteran superstar to Simmon's play as a 19 year old rookie.

As I said, Simmons is not the level of passer that Magic was - Magic is probably one of the top 3 greatest passers of all time. 

However, that doesn't change the fact that since Magic, there hasn't been a single guy with that type of size who was could dribble the ball and pass the ball like Simmons can. 

As a rookie Magic averaged 18 points, 7.7 rebounds and 7.3 assists and 4 turnovers in 36 minutes while shooting 53% / 22% / 81%. 

I think Simmons is quite capable of putting up rookie numbers in or near that ballpark.  I could see him averaging 17 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists as a rookie and I could see him shooting 49% / 20% / 70%. 

I'm not saying Simmons is as good as Magic, or that he will be the next Magic.  I just think that if you look at historical players, the last guy who had his ability to pass/rebound/score the way he can (along with the size/strength/speed he has) was Magic.

The next closest comparison after Magic is probably Lebron James.

Nobody else in the past 20-30 years has really had anything resembling that combination of skill, size and athleticism.

When the only two guys that compare with Simmons are Magic and Lebron, he's sitting in some pretty darn exclusive company.

[slightly biased bias fan]

As a celtics fan I will agree that Simmons couldn't carry Magic's jockstrap.   I was lucky enough to grow up watching this stuff.  No wonder people today are so negative.

You're comparing Magic Johnson's play as a veteran superstar to Simmon's play as a 19 year old rookie.

As I said, Simmons is not the level of passer that Magic was - Magic is probably one of the top 3 greatest passers of all time. 

However, that doesn't change the fact that since Magic, there hasn't been a single guy with that type of size who was could dribble the ball and pass the ball like Simmons can. 

As a rookie Magic averaged 18 points, 7.7 rebounds and 7.3 assists and 4 turnovers in 36 minutes while shooting 53% / 22% / 81%. 

I think Simmons is quite capable of putting up rookie numbers in or near that ballpark.  I could see him averaging 17 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists as a rookie and I could see him shooting 49% / 20% / 70%. 

I'm not saying Simmons is as good as Magic, or that he will be the next Magic.  I just think that if you look at historical players, the last guy who had his ability to pass/rebound/score the way he can (along with the size/strength/speed he has) was Magic.

The next closest comparison after Magic is probably Lebron James.

Nobody else in the past 20-30 years has really had anything resembling that combination of skill, size and athleticism.

When the only two guys that compare with Simmons are Magic and Lebron, he's sitting in some pretty darn exclusive company.

Remember Magic was a 3 year college player and his rookie year starting 5 consisted of; Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Spencer Haywood, Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon.

[crimson_stallion]

Imagine what he could do with a 6'10" Oscar Robertson type of talent

Some fans are going to be incredibly disappointed if these are their expectations.

I think Magic Johnson is probably a closer comparison myself.

I don't think there has ever been a 6'10" big man who can run, pass and dribble like Simmons can.  Magic (at 6'9") would be I think the only one that comes close to that.

Magic had the athleticism, passing ability and ball handling ability of a Point Guard, with the size and strength of a power forward.   He was a very good scorer,  but he was never really known as a great jump shooter or an especially great defensive player.   

He was however, a man who could play any position on the court - and he still remains one of the all time NBA leaders in triple doubles. 

I look at those two guys and I see so many similarities.  I doubt Simmons will ever be as good as Magic, but I think he could become a slightly less dominant version of Magic.

A slightly lesser version of the best PG of all-time?

Sounds reasonable.

First of all, calling magic the best PG of all time is very much subjective.  There have been other great point guards who you could put right up there with him - Jerry West and John Stockton being two such guys.

Secondly, calling the comparison unreasonable is unjustified when we haven't even seen the man play a single game in the NBA.  He is a 6'10" / 240 pound guy who has the passing skills and ball handling skills of a guard, elite rebounding ability, elite athleticism, and he's one of the top scorers in the college game right now.   

All this at the age of 19.

If this guy develops a good jump shot (which Magic never had at that point in his career either) then there is no telling how good he could become.

I understand that it sounds like such sacrilege top compare young college guys to former greats, but that is what we do every time draft time comes around - we compare the guys being drafted, to NBA players they compare closely to.  I can't think of any basketball player from the past 20-30 years that Simmons compares more closely to then Magic or Lebron.  No other player in recent times has really had that type of talent/skill set.

Kobe Bryant just finished his final game as an NBA pro, and when celebrating his achievements a number of people (including Magic himself) referred to Kobe as possibly the greatest Laker ever.  20 years ago Kobe was a young high school player who had not proven a thing, and if anybody (at that time) predicted that Kobe would finish his career being compared to guys like Magic, Kareem and Jerry West, they would have been insulted by the suggestion.

Thing is, every single hall of famer we have seen has started their career, at some point, as a young unproven kid coming out of high school / college. 

You can question my Magic comparison if you like - by all means I am not a fortune telling, and I cannot see 5 or 10 or 20 years into the future to tell you for sure if Simmons will ever become that good.  All I can tell you is that there have only been two players in the past 20-30 years who have the basketball skills and physical tools that Simmons has - and both of those guy (Magic and Lebron) are going to go down in history among some of the greastest players ever to play the game.

Ingram looks good too, I see some signs of Durant in him for sure.  But who id going to remembered more 15 years from now - Magic or Durant?  Lebron or Durant?

Lebron is remembered for being a physical freak of nature who is also ridiculously skilled, who can do an array of things that no other play at the time is capable of doing.  Same can be said for Magic.  Durant will simply go down in history as being a really good scorer that never really got anything - much like Dominique Wilkins. 

Simmons may well underachieve and not live up to his expectations, who knows.  But the potential/upside that he has is off the charts.  He may well have more upside then either Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns or Andrew Wiggins.

We will find out soon enough.

[Roy H.]

Secondly, calling the comparison unreasonable is unjustified when we haven't even seen the man play a single game in the NBA

That's *exactly* why it's unreasonable. Comparing a flawed college freshman to Magic Johnson or a bigger Oscar Robertson is ridiculous at this stage.

[crimson_stallion]

Secondly, calling the comparison unreasonable is unjustified when we haven't even seen the man play a single game in the NBA

That's *exactly* why it's unreasonable. Comparing a flawed college freshman to Magic Johnson or a bigger Oscar Robertson is ridiculous at this stage.

No, it isn't.

It's no more ridiculous then comparing Ingram to Durant, Bender to Porzingis, or Schroeder to Rondo, or Anthony Davis to Kevin Garnett. 

It's no more ridiculous then any other player comparison that ever gets made on draft day, because NONE of those draft picks have played a day of NBA basketball at the time of those comparisons being made.  Nobody knows at the time what each player will grow to become - they are all just predictions. 

So if that's the argument you are going to make, then you may as well label every single "NBA comparison" that has ever been made on draft day as ridiculous.

We don't do that though.  Why?  Because you look at the skill set and attributes a player has, and you compare those skills and attributes to past players who happened to have similar skills and attributes, in order to hopefully project/predict what type of player they might become.

You can deny all you want, but there are no players in past history who's skills/attributes match Simmons more than Magic Johnson and Lebron James.  There have been no other NBA players from the past couple of decades who have had Simmon's combination of size, athleticism and skill.

If you want to label my comparison as ridiculous , then why not provide a rebuttal with a player you feel is more closely matched to Simmon's profile?  Because I personally cannot think of one.

The only other guy I can think of is Josh Smith, but Smith as a rookie didn't have the physical strength, the passing ability or the ball handling ability that Simmons has right now.

You could perhaps argue that Simmons is a rich man's Josh Smith - but given that Josh Smith was a fringe All-Star during his prime, that's hardly something to scoff at.

I'm just not sure why you shoot down my comparison, and yet you don't actually come back with any justification as to why you thing it's inaccurate.  Remember I am not saying Simmons is as good as Magic, I'm just saying that it's the closest comparison I can think of in terms of skill set, and that Simmons has most of the same skills and talents as Magic did (just at not quite as impressive a level).

If you disagree with the comparison, why not provide an justified argument for why that is, rather than just responding by calling the argument "unreasonable" and "ridiculous". 

[Celtics4ever]

I think each player is an individual, comparisons by their nature are faulty most of the time.  Still it is human nature to do it, but so much is subjective perception which varies by individual.

[crimson_stallion]

I think each player is an individual, comparisons by their nature are faulty most of the time.  Still it is human nature to do it, but so much is subjective perception which varies by individual.

It's just a natural thing for people I think.  We identify things easier by comparing them to things we have known in the past.  We use our historical knowledge in order to try to better make predictions about the future.

It's why we will often hear people say things like "I don't trust her - she reminds me too much of my ex girlfriend, who cheated on me". 

It's not the greatest logic in the world, but it's just the way human minds work. 

We tend to look at a guy play basketball and think "hey, the way he did that reminded me of Player-X".  Or "the way he did this reminds me of Player-Y". 

Even when you are trying to predict a player's future WITHOUT using comparisons, you're still using comparisons subconsciously. 

People saying things like "rebounding is a stats that tends to project to the NBA well".  That's a conclusion / assumption made based on a comparison to past players.  It's saying "guys in the past who rebounded well at college, tended to also rebound well at the NBA level - so I am going to assume this guy will probably be a good NBA rebounder". 

It's not all that different to saying "Magic Johnson had great PG skills with a PF body, and he ended up becoming an all-time great.  Simmons has PG skills with a PF body, so I'm going to predict he'll become a great player too". 

For the most part, it's this is just how us humans look at things in life.

Anyway Roy - I don't mean to be an argumentative and unpleasant individual with any of this, or to make it seem like I am attacking you.  I just think I've given plenty of justification / reasoning for my Magic comparison, and I feel it's well within my rights to make such a comparison without being ridiculed about it.  Just because somebody may disagree with another's point of view, doesn't mean we cannot still respect it. 

[Roy H.]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to find your comparison wildly off-base. Magic is almost universally seen as a top-five player of all-time. I think it does a real disservice to college freshman to saddle them with unrealistic expectations.

Simmons will be a huge success if he develops into the next Blake Griffin. He'd have to go two or three steps beyond that to be in the conversation with Magic.

[greece66]

I firmly believe the League has no interest in making the Celtics better---they sell out every game anyway--and have won tons of rings---so don't expect any help on lottery night---5th pick for sure...Lakers will get No. 1.... Phoenix No. 2....Minny No. 3....Philly No. 4

I firmly believe the opposite. 

#1 - The draft isn't fixed.  So there's that.

#2 - One could argue that in 2008 the league had a rooting interest in a Lakers/Celtics finals.  What transpired that season was a perfect storm leading to big-time dollars. 

Celtics have a top 5 fan base nationally in terms of size.  It's one of the premiere franchises in the league.  The league would very pleased to have a Celtic team playing deep into the playoffs.

I have to say, the old LarBrd was really good; but the new LarBrd is really something else.

[CoachBo]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to find your comparison wildly off-base. Magic is almost universally seen as a top-five player of all-time. I think it does a real disservice to college freshman to saddle them with unrealistic expectations.

Simmons will be a huge success if he develops into the next Blake Griffin. He'd have to go two or three steps beyond that to be in the conversation with Magic.

And that, given his freshman year, is a huge if.

TP for a noble fight against hyperbole.