Author Topic: Sully has to GO!!!!  (Read 9880 times)

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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2016, 10:21:47 AM »

Offline billysan

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While I agree sully has worn out his welcome in Boston and that his lack of discipline in getting himself in top shape means he has to go because it effects his play, I think the people saying Sully had an exceptionally bad game or was the reason for this loss are just taking their dislike of Sully and having it cloud their opinion of his play and what he did last night.

Agreed. I also think it is simple frustration. We feel like we are getting close to being a relevant playoff level team and we lose a key player. Then we lash out at one of our chronic  underacheivers.

It's not like we have a bunch of other options for bigs. Do we start Zeller  at center now and pnr them to death for the first 5 minutes?  I guess we sit back and see what Brad  and Danny come up with for the rest for the series lol
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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2016, 10:53:54 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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While I agree sully has worn out his welcome in Boston and that his lack of discipline in getting himself in top shape means he has to go because it effects his play, I think the people saying Sully had an exceptionally bad game or was the reason for this loss are just taking their dislike of Sully and having it cloud their opinion of his play and what he did last night.

That's not the case at all. 

Anybody who tries to claim Sully had anything but an absolutely horrible game either didn't watch the game, or knows nothing about basketball. 

Whether you can blame him for the loss - well, that's another matter altogether.  We lost the game for a number of reasons, and Sully sure as hell wasn't the only one.  He was however, probably the biggest one.

As Isaiah said in his "letter", this is the playoffs - where every single play matters. When you are in the playoffs the quality of competition is so high that you simply cannot afford to either make (a) careless mistakes, or (b) take plays off.  One layup allowed, one poorly chosen shot missed, or one careless turnover could very easily turn out to be the difference between a win and a loss. 

I don't ever expect a guy to shoot well every night - everyone has their on and off games, and I totally accept that.  But I do expect a guy to play hard, play smart, and play with composure/confidence.  This is the Playoffs, not the summer league.

Today Sully made far, far too many mistakes.  He played defence with 70% effort on too many possessions, he missed too many defensive rotations, he committed too many unforced turnovers, and he took (and missed) too many ill advised shots. I can accept one error, I can accept two errors.  Hell, I can even forgive three errors.  But Sully was making team-hurting errors (on both ends of the court) almost the entire time he was on the court, and those errors when added up, were easily enough to cost us the game.

Sully certainly was not the only guy who I could say that of  Crowder was nearly as bad as Sully was today.  He had some flashes of really poor defence, and he took some REALLY poor shots. 

The key difference is that for Sully, this wasn't a one off.  He makes mistakes like this far too frequently - today was just the significantly worse than usual...but the fact that it's the errors he made to day are pretty typical for him (rather than a one off freak bad game) that concerns me.

As for the "physical" argument - people can argue that all they want, but there is only so much you can blame on Sully's conditioning.  You can argue he missed rotations because he was too slow or too tired, you can argue he got scored on in the paint because he lacks the agility and leaping ability to contest the shot, and you can argue that he missed a shot because his legs were tired.

But you can't blame poor shot selection / hero ball, careless turnovers or poor defensive court vision entirely on his conditioning.  Those are mental things - they are either result of poor basketball IQ (not knowing what to do in the situation) or arrogance (knowing what is the right thing to do, but doing the wrong thing anyway).

How do I know it's more mental then physical?  Because of the inconsistency.

There have been games this year where Sully's defense has been well and truly fantastic.  There are times where he's dominated the boards, despite fighting for them against a physically dominant (and more talented) player.  There have been games where he's made smart decisions, took smart shots, and took good care of the ball.

All of this proves that regardless of Sully's conditioning issues, he is still very capable of being an effective player WHEN he uses his head and plays the right way.

If Sully's flaws were all a result of his conditioning, then he would play badly ALL the time, because there hasn't been a single point in this season where Sully has been in anything but poor shape.

Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2016, 11:00:05 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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There was one point in the 4th where I was screaming for Brad to pull Sully & put Amir back in.  Luckily, after Sully front rimmed another shot, Brad ended up taking him out.  Amir was playing much better last night. 

The thing that irks me with Sully is in decision making.  He's gotten to that point with me where if he gets the ball at the top of the key or on one of the elbows, I'm screaming for him to pass the ball & not take the shot with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. 

Last night was not one of his finest games.  You can point the finger at a lot of guys but Sully has to be included in the discussion.


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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2016, 11:01:40 AM »

Offline Banner18now!

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6-7 million a year is the ceiling I would give Sully, he wants more than buh bye. Not a difference maker can be a solid role player at best. It won't be hard to replace him.

Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2016, 11:04:04 AM »

Offline jambr380

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As far as the physical vs mental debate goes, I just meant that if he were in better condition, some of those mental mistakes might not have ever happened. Taking an easy outside shot rather than fighting for position can easily be blamed on conditioning, as can making a lazy pass, or not getting into proper defensive position. Being able to quickly move without getting tired would lead to less lackadaisical play.

Obviously it is a combination of mental/physical, and this game is hardly Sully's fault, but I expected a little more from him based off of how he played against Cleveland last year coming back from injury. Hopefully he realizes this - along with all other first half Cs players - and they come out with much greater focus to start the game.

Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2016, 11:16:16 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Anybody who tries to claim Sully had anything but an absolutely horrible game either didn't watch the game, or knows nothing about basketball. 

Given your extended diatribes on the decline Horford, one has to wonder about your knowledge of basketball.

Sully had a bad game. So did just about everyone except Marcus Smart. Absolutely horrendous? Massive over reaction and more transference of your own personal disdain for Sully clouding your judgment of how he played last night.

Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2016, 11:37:58 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Anybody who tries to claim Sully had anything but an absolutely horrible game either didn't watch the game, or knows nothing about basketball. 

Given your extended diatribes on the decline Horford, one has to wonder about your knowledge of basketball.

Sully had a bad game. So did just about everyone except Marcus Smart. Absolutely horrendous? Massive over reaction and more transference of your own personal disdain for Sully clouding your judgment of how he played last night.

Sully seems to have a lot of bad games against Atlanta.  8 pts 6 reb 2 ast in 20 mpg in 4 regular season games this year.  Last nights numbers were pretty much right in line with that, except he shot sub 30% from the field.

I wasn't surprised by his play.

Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2016, 12:07:13 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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sully couldn't even make 17 ft jumpshot sometimes he can make. He had zero lift on those two shots

No offensive rebound. No tips ins. 

CBS looks like is instructing to get his phat bum back as soon as possible bc it will take him a lifetime to get back otherwise


Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2016, 12:08:56 PM »

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It's not like we have a bunch of other options for bigs. Do we start Zeller  at center now and pnr them to death for the first 5 minutes?  I guess we sit back and see what Brad  and Danny come up with for the rest for the series lol

I wonder if Zeller would be a good option against Muscala. Especially if the team goes through another one of those stretches where nobody is going to the basket.

Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2016, 12:08:58 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I think he tried hard this offseason. Running, jogging. Watching what he ate. 

He just has poor genetics is the conclusion I have come up with

He is realistically a nice  pf/c off the bench for alot of teams but is not starting material


Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2016, 12:11:17 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Coming into this game Atlanta was one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA. If Sullinger can't make his presence known on the glass then he is pretty much unplayable.
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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2016, 12:23:02 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Coming into this game Atlanta was one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA. If Sullinger can't make his presence known on the glass then he is pretty much unplayable.
It showed how bad we are on the boards. We were within a point. If AB takes Turner's shot after IT passed on it. He makes it and we win. Hopefully Sully comes out Tuesday like a mn possessed. This is over without him and Rozier playing big now.
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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2016, 12:47:54 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Sullinger couldn't get off the floor last night. Couldn't jump.

I'm not concerned about one bad game. I'm concerned about a guy who is too heavy to get off the floor.

That is a problem that would weigh heavily on my mind -hahahah - as the GM. It would be tempting to shake his hand, say thanks and tell him we will make no contract offer to him.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 01:14:21 PM by CoachBo »
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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2016, 12:54:49 PM »

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Sully is a starter in the league but isn't probably ever going to be an all-star. I would like a little bit more out of my starting pf that has huge health questions.

Let him walk, if something better is out there or sign him to short deals with team options.
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Re: Sully has to GO!!!!
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2016, 01:35:18 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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Sullinger couldn't get off the floor last night. Couldn't jump.

I'm not concerned about one bad game. I'm concerned about a guy who is too heavy to get off the floor.

Relax.  His weight is not an issue.

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