Poll

I Will Pay Harrison Barnes For

5 to 10 million
4 (11.4%)
10 to 15 million
14 (40%)
15 to 20 million
15 (42.9%)
over 20 million
2 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Author Topic: What is Harrison Barnes Value?  (Read 5925 times)

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Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 04:04:38 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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3) Barnes reportedly wants a bigger role. There's no indication Green ever wanted to be "the man." That Barnes hasn't been able to take a leading role on arguably the best team in NBA history shouldn't be seen as an automatic strike against him.


If he had the ability or the inclination to be the man, to take a leading role on a non-Warriors team, or to shine just as bright as the lead, then he would've shown it every so often, even on the Warriors. The occasional game when he enters beast mode and plays like the man for a night. Has that ever happened? In 305 regular games, 244 starts, he's scored 30 once, exactly 30, in the last game of the season back in 2014, with Curry sitting out...and he was outscored by Jordan Crawford, who led the team with 41, off the bench. He's only had maybe 2-3 other games in his entire career that can be described generously as alpha games. 1 out of every 100 games or so. Wait, there's the playoffs, too...40 games, 33 starts, out of which he has scored 20 or more points 4 times, all in his rookie season.

Check his game logs. I would be interested in seeing another player in recent NBA history who's had that many minutes in that many starts, who's had so few big games, and who then went on to be a big-time scorer. I don't think one will be found.

Quote
Harrison Barnes would be a risk, sure.  Obviously KD should be the first target as a SF.  But Barnes is a risk worth taking if we can't get KD.

We don't have to make a big free agency splash this summer. Aside from Durant, the pool is weak, including Barnes. He'd prevent us from signing someone next summer, when the pool will be deep with stars, including maybe Durant again. Better to just keep both max slots open.
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Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 04:11:14 AM »

Offline TA9

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I'm a little sceptical about signing Barnes to a max contract given that I don't know how he's going to handle the pressure when he's not playing with the likes of Curry, Thompson and Green. I can imagine that the three last-mentioned players take away a lot of attention from Barnes, and I doubt that he would have that "luxury" on our team.
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Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 09:47:59 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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This poll is good right now for NBA comparison in that with first 29 votes 2 of those votes are for over 20. And folks if it was 29 teams all it takes one or two teams to say yes to more value no matter what any of the other teams think.

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 10:00:11 AM »

Offline footey

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He may not get max, but GMs are looking for guys who can shoot, including Danny Ainge, and may pay a premium for that skill set. Kid can shoot the 3 ball.

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 10:08:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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He may not get max, but GMs are looking for guys who can shoot, including Danny Ainge, and may pay a premium for that skill set. Kid can shoot the 3 ball.
He's getting the max, unless he chooses to take a below market deal.

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2016, 10:12:02 AM »

Online Donoghus

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He may not get max, but GMs are looking for guys who can shoot, including Danny Ainge, and may pay a premium for that skill set. Kid can shoot the 3 ball.
He's getting the max, unless he chooses to take a below market deal.

Yeah, someone is definitely throwing the max at him.  I just hope its not the Celtics.


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Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2016, 10:24:55 AM »

Offline MISSERY

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He may not get max, but GMs are looking for guys who can shoot, including Danny Ainge, and may pay a premium for that skill set. Kid can shoot the 3 ball.
He's getting the max, unless he chooses to take a below market deal.

Yeah, someone is definitely throwing the max at him.  I just hope its not the Celtics.

he turn down 16million per year, with a 4years total of 64 million salary

he will accept 17? 18? 19? 20?

how much?

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2016, 10:34:29 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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He may not get max, but GMs are looking for guys who can shoot, including Danny Ainge, and may pay a premium for that skill set. Kid can shoot the 3 ball.
He's getting the max, unless he chooses to take a below market deal.

Yeah, someone is definitely throwing the max at him.  I just hope its not the Celtics.

he turn down 16million per year, with a 4years total of 64 million salary

he will accept 17? 18? 19? 20?

how much?
He is getting a maximum contract offer, that is 25% of the salary cap.

The salary cap is projected at 89 million dollars, a 22 million dollar jump. Take 25% of 89 million so here is some rough math.

Harrison Barnes is getting a contract with a starting salary of 22.25 million dollars. 4.5% annual raises and he'll end up with:

22.25, 23.25, 24.25, 25.25 roughly so 4 years and 95 million dollars.

That's why he refused 4 and 64.

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2016, 10:48:53 AM »

Offline MISSERY

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He may not get max, but GMs are looking for guys who can shoot, including Danny Ainge, and may pay a premium for that skill set. Kid can shoot the 3 ball.
He's getting the max, unless he chooses to take a below market deal.

Yeah, someone is definitely throwing the max at him.  I just hope its not the Celtics.

he turn down 16million per year, with a 4years total of 64 million salary

he will accept 17? 18? 19? 20?

how much?
He is getting a maximum contract offer, that is 25% of the salary cap.

The salary cap is projected at 89 million dollars, a 22 million dollar jump. Take 25% of 89 million so here is some rough math.

Harrison Barnes is getting a contract with a starting salary of 22.25 million dollars. 4.5% annual raises and he'll end up with:

22.25, 23.25, 24.25, 25.25 roughly so 4 years and 95 million dollars.

That's why he refused 4 and 64.

he is getting max over whiteside beal batum parsons? i don't know if this players are worth 25million

any teams you think will offer 22 million for barnes?

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2016, 10:51:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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he is getting max over whiteside beal batum parsons? i don't know if this players are worth 25million
20 + teams are going to have max cap space.

The cap is going up 22 million, that's roughly a maximum salary slot.

Its going to be a "and you get a max FA, and you get a max free agent, and you get a max free agent" sort of off season.

Batum, Beal, Whiteside, and Parsons are all likely to receive max offers. Whiteside is the only one I'd doubt, but I shouldn't as he is a FA big man.

I honestly have no idea what team will offer him. But someone will, maybe the Hornets if Batum leaves?

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2016, 10:56:20 AM »

Offline MISSERY

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he is getting max over whiteside beal batum parsons? i don't know if this players are worth 25million
20 + teams are going to have max cap space.

The cap is going up 22 million, that's roughly a maximum salary slot.

Its going to be a "and you get a max FA, and you get a max free agent, and you get a max free agent" sort of off season.

Batum, Beal, Whiteside, and Parsons are all likely to receive max offers. Whiteside is the only one I'd doubt, but I shouldn't as he is a FA big man.

I honestly have no idea what team will offer him. But someone will, maybe the Hornets if Batum leaves?

i was thinking the wizards? can't believe they didn't make it to playoffs
but i have doubt if this line-up is a killer

wall beal barnes morris gortat (is this a killer line-up?)

he can also go to pelicans to but the system is not good

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2016, 11:00:28 AM »

Offline saltlover

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3) Barnes reportedly wants a bigger role. There's no indication Green ever wanted to be "the man." That Barnes hasn't been able to take a leading role on arguably the best team in NBA history shouldn't be seen as an automatic strike against him.


If he had the ability or the inclination to be the man, to take a leading role on a non-Warriors team, or to shine just as bright as the lead, then he would've shown it every so often, even on the Warriors. The occasional game when he enters beast mode and plays like the man for a night. Has that ever happened? In 305 regular games, 244 starts, he's scored 30 once, exactly 30, in the last game of the season back in 2014, with Curry sitting out...and he was outscored by Jordan Crawford, who led the team with 41, off the bench. He's only had maybe 2-3 other games in his entire career that can be described generously as alpha games. 1 out of every 100 games or so. Wait, there's the playoffs, too...40 games, 33 starts, out of which he has scored 20 or more points 4 times, all in his rookie season.

Check his game logs. I would be interested in seeing another player in recent NBA history who's had that many minutes in that many starts, who's had so few big games, and who then went on to be a big-time scorer. I don't think one will be found.

Quote
Harrison Barnes would be a risk, sure.  Obviously KD should be the first target as a SF.  But Barnes is a risk worth taking if we can't get KD.

We don't have to make a big free agency splash this summer. Aside from Durant, the pool is weak, including Barnes. He'd prevent us from signing someone next summer, when the pool will be deep with stars, including maybe Durant again. Better to just keep both max slots open.

I get what you're saying regarding Barnes not taking over much, if ever.  But even looking at history, his situation is completely unique.  On most every team in the NBA he'd be either first or second in three-point shooting amongst players with 200+ attempts.  On the Warriors, he's fourth.  And the Warriors know who shoots the best -- Curry.  And then the shots go to Thompson, who's second.  Then Green, who's third.  Then Barnes.  One of Barnes' offensive strengths is simply redundant on that team.

For perspective, Curry and Thompson combined have taken more 3s themselves than 6 other NBA teams have.  And the two of them have made more 3s than 14 other teams.  The Warriors as a team shoot 41.5% from 3, which would be 10th in the league as an individual player.  In the Warriors offense, Harrison Barnes taking a 3-pointer is a bad shot.  He shoots 38.3% from 3, better than every other team's average.  Barnes taking over a game would be an example of Harrison Barnes playing selfishly and outside of the offense in Golden State.  Those other young players who dominate occasionally have never been in Barnes situation.  Even Harden in OKC was coming off the bench at times, being allowed to lead the second unit.  Barnes is a starter, but it means he has to share the floor with players who will (rightfully) dominate the scoring chances.

It does make him incredibly difficult to evaluate, because there are no comparisons.  So you look at his age, his physical measurements, and the fact that he can shoot, and hypothesize that this is someone who can succeed in a larger role.

But I reject that Barnes will foreclose the Celtics from other opportunities the following season.  Just as most every team will have cap room this summer, so will every team have cap room the following summer.  Barnes would make about 85% of the 0-6 years max in 2017.  Barring injury, he would be tradeable if a better free agent wanted to come to the C's.  Furthermore, the last two CBA negotiations have included an amnesty provision.  Even if Barnes were for some reason not tradeable, it is probable the C's could erase his contract that way if truly needed.

It is time to stop putting most of our eggs into the following year's free agency basket.  This team is good enough to make long-term additions who have the ability to grow within our team and offer a talent upgrade over our current roster.  Barnes is one of those players.  Just because he's not a top 10 player in the NBA doesn't mean we should hold our noses.  It is unlikely we'll ever get such a player in free agency, because such players change teams rarely.  Furthermore, we have two offseasons of cap flexibility left.  Once the summer of 2018 hits, we'll have to deal with IT, Bradley, and Smart in free agency at the same time.  Beginning that year, free agency will be about maintaining the status quo and not making the team better.

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2016, 11:15:08 AM »

Offline MISSERY

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i don't know but we have crowder to develop?

and lots of 1st pick to draft another legit 1st pick player SF

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2016, 12:53:34 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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I understand the fascination...

23, 6'8'', 220, Athletic, has shot 40% from 3, shooting 38% this year, etc. So I looked at the numbers today comparing him to players that made the leap after their first few years (Kawhi, Butler, George) to find that he doesn't compare favorably to them.

Barnes statistics are eerily similar to Jeff's... and Batum... Good, but not a $20M+ max player that I would invest in.

A thorough investigation on his work ethic and mental makeup (desire to be the best) has to be done before considering him for the max, even then I'd be uneasy about committing the amount of resources necessary to sign him. if his work ethic/mental makeup checks out, he's a serious candidate to make the leap and you have to take your chances unless there's a better option.

Re: What is Harrison Barnes Value?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2016, 02:05:23 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Quote from: saltlover
But I reject that Barnes will foreclose the Celtics from other opportunities the following season.  Just as most every team will have cap room this summer, so will every team have cap room the following summer.  Barnes would make about 85% of the 0-6 years max in 2017.  Barring injury, he would be tradeable if a better free agent wanted to come to the C's.  Furthermore, the last two CBA negotiations have included an amnesty provision.  Even if Barnes were for some reason not tradeable, it is probable the C's could erase his contract that way if truly needed.

It's going to be 100% of his max. His suitors will include not only competitive teams with cap space, but rebuilding teams with cap space.

Yes, it's probable that if need be the Celtics could dump him. Then again, maybe not, if he continued to be average-ish even in a new environment with a featured role. Amnestying him after one year is extremely unlikely.

Quote
It is time to stop putting most of our eggs into the following year's free agency basket.  This team is good enough to make long-term additions who have the ability to grow within our team and offer a talent upgrade over our current roster.  Barnes is one of those players.  Just because he's not a top 10 player in the NBA doesn't mean we should hold our noses.  It is unlikely we'll ever get such a player in free agency, because such players change teams rarely.  Furthermore, we have two offseasons of cap flexibility left.  Once the summer of 2018 hits, we'll have to deal with IT, Bradley, and Smart in free agency at the same time.  Beginning that year, free agency will be about maintaining the status quo and not making the team better.

Right, two years of flexibility left. It's extremely important to choose the right free agents by the time that window closes. It's not about perpetually wishcasting the next year's free agent class, the grass always being greener on the other side of the calendar, etc. It's about it being either this year or next year, or never. This year's class is probably: Durant...long, long pause...and Horford, Conley, Barnes, Whiteside, Howard, Pau, Rondo, maybe Beal. Next year's class is probably: Durant again perhaps, possibly LeBron, and Westbrook, Griffin, Chris Paul, Millsap, Lowry, Hayward, Ibaka, Monroe, Bogut, plus maybe one or two of the restricted ones. Barnes is intriguing this year, but I think I would sign any one of the 2017 guys I mentioned before I'd sign Barnes or any other of the non-Durant 2016 guys. You're right, we're good enough to sign an intriguing young free agent to take a chance on developing. We might also be good enough to win rings as soon as next year and 2018 if we sign just the right two veterans. I'd much rather try the latter.
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