Horford is so horribly overrated...

[Celtics4ever]

And yet, he handled our bigs aside from Amir and made them look bad.

Evan Turner,Zeller and Sully would likely need to be let go to manage the cap in future years

 

I might miss ET.  But Sully is good game/ bad game and we need to get a consistent player at his spot.   Zeller, I think might be cheaper than you think.

Horford is an upgrade over Sully plain and simple.  I would wager that he has as many good years left as Sully does, because Sully is often overweight and has conditioning issues that cause injuries.   I am glad he got in better shape this year, but he still has a ways to go.   With this being a contract year, I think you have to take that with a grain of salt.

I do not think he is more over rated than Sully is by many here.

[PhoSita]

No, he's not.


He's not going to carry a team on his own, but he's like an elite version of Amir -- he does lots of little things to make a big overall impact.


The Celts should absolute go after Horford, provided that the plan is to add somebody of greater consequence at or around the same time.

[crimson_stallion]

No, he's not.


He's not going to carry a team on his own, but he's like an elite version of Amir -- he does lots of little things to make a big overall impact.


The Celts should absolute go after Horford, provided that the plan is to add somebody of greater consequence at or around the same time.

Like what?

Because yesterday he looked like a lazier, slower, less active, worse rebounding and lower IQ version of Sully...with 3 point range.

I saw absolutely NOTHING yesyerday that would justify me evem dreaming of using "Elite" and "Horford" in the same sentence...and certainly nothing that would justify letting Turner, Sully and Johnson walk so i can offer him a max deal.

I don't even care that he can shoot the three.  Lots of bigs can do that in today's NBA, and it's becoming more and more common a trait.  I'm more worried about his poor rebounding, average rim protection, inefficient offensive game, and sloth like mobility (or lack thereof).  Along with the fact that, at the age of 29, he's already significantly declining.

[crimson_stallion]

And yet, he handled our bigs aside from Amir and made them look bad.

Evan Turner,Zeller and Sully would likely need to be let go to manage the cap in future years

 

I might miss ET.  But Sully is good game/ bad game and we need to get a consistent player at his spot.   Zeller, I think might be cheaper than you think.

Horford is an upgrade over Sully plain and simple.  I would wager that he has as many good years left as Sully does, because Sully is often overweight and has conditioning issues that cause injuries.   I am glad he got in better shape this year, but he still has a ways to go.   With this being a contract year, I think you have to take that with a grain of salt.

I do not think he is more over rated than Sully is by many here.

In what aspects is Horford a upgrade over Sully?

He's a better the point shooter obviously.  A bit better shot blocker.

Other then that, what?

[aingeforthree]

And yet, he handled our bigs aside from Amir and made them look bad.

Evan Turner,Zeller and Sully would likely need to be let go to manage the cap in future years

 

I might miss ET.  But Sully is good game/ bad game and we need to get a consistent player at his spot.   Zeller, I think might be cheaper than you think.

Horford is an upgrade over Sully plain and simple.  I would wager that he has as many good years left as Sully does, because Sully is often overweight and has conditioning issues that cause injuries.   I am glad he got in better shape this year, but he still has a ways to go.   With this being a contract year, I think you have to take that with a grain of salt.

I do not think he is more over rated than Sully is by many here.

In what aspects is Horford a upgrade over Sully?

He's a better the point shooter obviously.  A bit better shot blocker.

Other then that, what?

Far better defender. Isn't really close. Can defend 4's and 5's at an extremely high level. Horford is far more consistent to boot.

One is an all star, the other isn't there quite yet.

[SHAQATTACK]

An upgrade over Sully

But not at a huge Max cost.

He has been at it a long time .....not sure how many great years he s got in him......that's why I think Atlanta let's,him walk.

And if he wants a 2x Sully contract .....then we should let him sail on down the road.


Rather have Jokiem Noah on a fair contract

[2short]

I disagree.  If a deal was sully and a mid 1st draft pick for horford on a signed deal I'd do it in a heartbeat.  I think some might overrate sully.
Horford does everything better than sully, better attitude to boot.  Someone stated horford is like Amir in that he does a lot of little things really well that don't show up in box score.  Very very true.  Anyone notice when Amir plays well and gets minutes he is a viable force on the court?   
I love the idea that our current team has some weird X factors; smart, ko, Turner, Bradley, crowder.  I look at horford as the same sort of guy.  Maybe not going to be a dominate game to game player but a guy who will affect games off the box score and on it depending on matchup and games etc.

[crimson_stallion]

And yet, he handled our bigs aside from Amir and made them look bad.

Evan Turner,Zeller and Sully would likely need to be let go to manage the cap in future years

 

I might miss ET.  But Sully is good game/ bad game and we need to get a consistent player at his spot.   Zeller, I think might be cheaper than you think.

Horford is an upgrade over Sully plain and simple.  I would wager that he has as many good years left as Sully does, because Sully is often overweight and has conditioning issues that cause injuries.   I am glad he got in better shape this year, but he still has a ways to go.   With this being a contract year, I think you have to take that with a grain of salt.

I do not think he is more over rated than Sully is by many here.

In what aspects is Horford a upgrade over Sully?

He's a better the point shooter obviously.  A bit better shot blocker.

Other then that, what?

Far better defender. Isn't really close. Can defend 4's and 5's at an extremely high level. Horford is far more consistent to boot.

One is an all star, the other isn't there quite yet.

Far better defender?  You've got to be kidding me.  I watched him yesterday, and his defense might have been the most disappointing part of what i saw.

Too small to defend longer bigs, too immobile to defend quicker bigs.  Slow reaction times - got caught standing around and allowing layups on a number of occasions. Plays with absolutely no passion or energy - looks like hes going through the motions.  Soft, to competitive spirit at all.

I saw absolutely nothing to suggest he's a better defender then Sully, and the advanced stats agree with me.

Horford was an all star because the East lacks quality talent at the big positions.  Drummond is a no brainer, as is Gasol.  Bosh would be if he wasn't out with health issues.  Im no fan of Kevin Love, but he's better then Horford and should have made the tan over him.

Beyond that, who do you have? Vucevic in Orlando?  Jefferson in Charlotte?  Sully in Boston?  Valancunis ( sorry if i mis-spelt that) in Toronto?  None of those guys are all star level talents.  Horford isn't either, but he's playing on a good team and he's a respected veteran so he's pretty much going to get that spot by default.

But there's really nothing about his game that screams 'All-Star'.  He's a good starter, maybe a bit better then Sully (only because Sully is even more offensive inefficient) and that's about it.

Not nearly worth the cost it would take to get him.

[Tr1boy]

I agree.   He is going to want money also

Milsap looks like a million bucks in comparison

I don't want to pay Horford

[crimson_stallion]

I disagree.  If a deal was sully and a mid 1st draft pick for horford on a signed deal I'd do it in a heartbeat.  I think some might overrate sully.
Horford does everything better than sully, better attitude to boot.  Someone stated horford is like Amir in that he does a lot of little things really well that don't show up in box score.  Very very true.  Anyone notice when Amir plays well and gets minutes he is a viable force on the court?   
I love the idea that our current team has some weird X factors; smart, ko, Turner, Bradley, crowder.  I look at horford as the same sort of guy.  Maybe not going to be a dominate game to game player but a guy who will affect games off the box score and on it depending on matchup and games etc.

How does he do everything better then Sully when Sully's rebound rate is about 50% higher then Horfords (13 per 36 vs 8 per 36) and he beats Horford in pretty much every advanced statistic including RPM and Net Rating?

Also the Amir argument looks like rubbish to me.  I see the impact Amir has every time he steps on the court.  He plays with energy, aggression, and heart.  He fights for every loose ball.  He affects almost every shot around the basket defensively.  He's always aware of what's going on around.

I just watched Horford and he does none of that.  Maybe he did upon a time, but he's clearly no longer that guy.

One of tge key things with Amir is his combination of high motor and athleticism.  Hes quick enough to switch onto guards for short periods of time, then get back to his man in a hurry.  He's quick enough to defend quick bigs.  He's athletic and active enough to challenge a lot of bigger bigs.  Can't say the same for Horford.

Can't help but feel there are way too many people judging Horford based on who he once was, rather than who he currently is.  He's a weak upgrade over Sully, and if Amir didnt have the foot problems (and could play more minutes) i'd take him over Horford any day.  He's so much more active defensively and on the boards, and he's studio much more efficient on offense as well.

Horford is worth no more then maybe $12m - $15m a year.  If you can get him for that then fine.  Any more than that is a criminal overpay, and im confident Danny will never do it...as we all know he is not the type of person who likes overpaying.

[jambr380]

I'm still with you Crimson. I think that you have to sign him if it is going to land Durant, but outside of that, I look for a trade before committing long term to a maxed out Horford. I am not saying definitely no, but you have to question what he will bring in future years.

People are often surprised that the Cs are as good as they are, usually citing Thomas and our defensive guard rotation, but Sully, Amir, and KO have been sneakily good this year. This whole team has guys that hustle and do the 'little things'. I would be afraid to lose Sully, Amir, and ET for an aging Horford and no additional plan for another star player.

[footey]

No, he's not.


He's not going to carry a team on his own, but he's like an elite version of Amir -- he does lots of little things to make a big overall impact.


The Celts should absolute go after Horford, provided that the plan is to add somebody of greater consequence at or around the same time.

What you are saying about him does not match everyone else's impression. I had a similar feeling as they regarding his lack of mobility from a previous game.  I think the earlier excitement about him was based on our memory of him a few years ago and not how he plays today.
\