Ainge receives praise from Hinkie

[alldaboston]

Agreed, and that's the mind-blowing part for me. The apologists act as if Hinkie invented a brilliant, revolutionary method of rebuilding, when the plan of "getting really bad to get high draft picks" is as old as the draft itself. That's the first thing which comes to any GMs mind when he faces a rebuild, it's how every kid on the planet plays GM mode in NBA2K.

I think it's less that he "invented a revolutionary method of rebuilding" and more the strict adherence to a long term plan without regard for short term consequences.

It's the way everybody plays GM mode in NBA 2K because in the video game you're not beholden to the constraints of fan revenue, player morale, constant media criticism, or ownership expectations, and it's also really easy to take advantage of opposing "GMs" controlled by the AI to put yourself at the top of the draft virtually every year.

Lowkey a lot of these things actually play a role in 2K

[MBunge]

Tp.  Some people just aren't going to "get it" with Philly until they see them improve.  They will cite "magic" as the reason for the sudden influx of talent.

The team is basically in perfect position for a quick turnaround.

Everyone "gets it" with Philly.  We just don't give them any credit for pursuing strategy that takes a steaming dump over the sport and we don't give them credit for success before it happens.

After three years of tanking, Philly doesn't have a legitimate starting point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting small forward.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting power forward.  The only legitimate back up power forward on the roster is 32 years old.

Yet despite decades of basketball and dozens (hundreds?) of teams that had even more talent and never amounted to anything, Philly is perfectly positioned for a quick turnaround?

Mike

Like I said, you don't get it

At this point, you aren't going to get it until you see results.  No point in posting about it back and forth.   There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what hinkie has succeeded in doing for that team.

Who was wrong about Embiid's health?  Who was wrong about what the hiring of Colangelo meant for Hinkie?

That would be you.

Hinkie hasn't succeeded at anything except sucking more than perhaps any NBA team has sucked over a three year period.  That's literally all he's accomplished to this point.

What comes next?  Who knows?  If Philly lands Simmons and Dunn and Embiid comes back and is 75% of what people expected and Saric is more Drazen Petrovic than Ricky Rubio and they get Harrison Barnes to sign for the max and about a half-dozen other things...it might work out pretty well for them.

What's really most fascinating is how this whole thing has proven that a lot of people who think they're smart are actually as innumerate as the most degenerate lottery player.  You spin out all these hypotheticals with not only zero sense of how likely or unlikely they are, but with a maniacal resistance to even consider it.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

Tp.  Some people just aren't going to "get it" with Philly until they see them improve.  They will cite "magic" as the reason for the sudden influx of talent.

The team is basically in perfect position for a quick turnaround.

Everyone "gets it" with Philly.  We just don't give them any credit for pursuing strategy that takes a steaming dump over the sport and we don't give them credit for success before it happens.

After three years of tanking, Philly doesn't have a legitimate starting point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting small forward.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting power forward.  The only legitimate back up power forward on the roster is 32 years old.

Yet despite decades of basketball and dozens (hundreds?) of teams that had even more talent and never amounted to anything, Philly is perfectly positioned for a quick turnaround?

Mike

Like I said, you don't get it

At this point, you aren't going to get it until you see results.  No point in posting about it back and forth.   There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what hinkie has succeeded in doing for that team.

Wow.

Fundamentally it doesn't make sense for a team to have all the pieces for a winning team when they were literally trying to avoid having a winning team.  It's like taking all of your money and putting it in a savings account you can't touch for 3 years.  You might find yourself struggling to buy cans of tuna, but that money is still there.   So many of their assets haven't conveyed yet.  It was by design.

[LarBrd33]

Tp.  Some people just aren't going to "get it" with Philly until they see them improve.  They will cite "magic" as the reason for the sudden influx of talent.

The team is basically in perfect position for a quick turnaround.

Everyone "gets it" with Philly.  We just don't give them any credit for pursuing strategy that takes a steaming dump over the sport and we don't give them credit for success before it happens.

After three years of tanking, Philly doesn't have a legitimate starting point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting small forward.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting power forward.  The only legitimate back up power forward on the roster is 32 years old.

Yet despite decades of basketball and dozens (hundreds?) of teams that had even more talent and never amounted to anything, Philly is perfectly positioned for a quick turnaround?

Mike

Like I said, you don't get it

At this point, you aren't going to get it until you see results.  No point in posting about it back and forth.   There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what hinkie has succeeded in doing for that team.

Who was wrong about Embiid's health?  Who was wrong about what the hiring of Colangelo meant for Hinkie?

That would be you.
 
Mike

I have more knowledge about embiid's health than almost every single person on this forum, because I actually read all of the articles associated with his story instead of just buying Twitter posts that called him the next oden.  Most here still don't understand why embiid didn't play this year.

As for colangeo I was right 100% in what his hiring meant for the short term implications for that franchise.  Nothing changed.  The real moves will happen as summer.  I never cared about what that meant for Sam Hinkie.  My focus was on what it meant for phillys process.  It had no impact.

[MBunge]

Tp.  Some people just aren't going to "get it" with Philly until they see them improve.  They will cite "magic" as the reason for the sudden influx of talent.

The team is basically in perfect position for a quick turnaround.

Everyone "gets it" with Philly.  We just don't give them any credit for pursuing strategy that takes a steaming dump over the sport and we don't give them credit for success before it happens.

After three years of tanking, Philly doesn't have a legitimate starting point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting small forward.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting power forward.  The only legitimate back up power forward on the roster is 32 years old.

Yet despite decades of basketball and dozens (hundreds?) of teams that had even more talent and never amounted to anything, Philly is perfectly positioned for a quick turnaround?

Mike

Like I said, you don't get it

At this point, you aren't going to get it until you see results.  No point in posting about it back and forth.   There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what hinkie has succeeded in doing for that team.

Who was wrong about Embiid's health?  Who was wrong about what the hiring of Colangelo meant for Hinkie?

That would be you.
 
Mike

I have more knowledge about embiid's health than almost every single person on this forum, because I actually read all of the articles associated with his story instead of just buying Twitter posts that called him the next oden.  Most here still don't understand why embiid didn't play this year.

And yet, everyone else here was right in what was happening with Embiid.  You were wrong.

YOU EVEN ADMITTED YOU WERE WRONG.

I mean, I know you like to troll a little around here but this weak nonsense is beneath even you.

Mike

[Snakehead]

I have more knowledge about embiid's health than almost every single person on this forum,

You should make this your signature.

[MBunge]

As for colangeo I was right 100% in what his hiring meant for the short term implications for that franchise.  Nothing changed.  The real moves will happen as summer.  I never cared about what that meant for Sam Hinkie.  My focus was on what it meant for phillys process.  It had no impact.

No, you were not 100% right.

Hinkie has publicly explained his resignation by stating that what he wants to do and what Philly ownership wants to do ARE NO LONGER THE SAME.  That's why he quit.

No one thought Jerry Colangelo was going to come in and trade Noel for a 2nd rounder or trade Okafor for David West so Philly could win 3 more games this year.  Everyone recognizes that Philly has to ride out the tank for this season and then make moves in the off season.  But you contended that Colangelo was just being hired to put a smiley face on the Hinkie plan that was already in place AND HINKIE HIMSELF HAS JUST SAID THAT YOU ARE WRONG.

Mike

[wayupnorth]

I have more knowledge about embiid's health than almost every single person on this forum,

You should make this your signature.

I second that...

Tommy Point!

[wayupnorth]

As for colangeo I was right 100% in what his hiring meant for the short term implications for that franchise.  Nothing changed.  The real moves will happen as summer.  I never cared about what that meant for Sam Hinkie.  My focus was on what it meant for phillys process.  It had no impact.

No, you were not 100% right.

Hinkie has publicly explained his resignation by stating that what he wants to do and what Philly ownership wants to do ARE NO LONGER THE SAME.  That's why he quit.

No one thought Jerry Colangelo was going to come in and trade Noel for a 2nd rounder or trade Okafor for David West so Philly could win 3 more games this year.  Everyone recognizes that Philly has to ride out the tank for this season and then make moves in the off season.  But you contended that Colangelo was just being hired to put a smiley face on the Hinkie plan that was already in place AND HINKIE HIMSELF HAS JUST SAID THAT YOU ARE WRONG.

Mike

Good point.

[LarBrd33]

Tp.  Some people just aren't going to "get it" with Philly until they see them improve.  They will cite "magic" as the reason for the sudden influx of talent.

The team is basically in perfect position for a quick turnaround.

Everyone "gets it" with Philly.  We just don't give them any credit for pursuing strategy that takes a steaming dump over the sport and we don't give them credit for success before it happens.

After three years of tanking, Philly doesn't have a legitimate starting point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting small forward.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting power forward.  The only legitimate back up power forward on the roster is 32 years old.

Yet despite decades of basketball and dozens (hundreds?) of teams that had even more talent and never amounted to anything, Philly is perfectly positioned for a quick turnaround?

Mike

Like I said, you don't get it

At this point, you aren't going to get it until you see results.  No point in posting about it back and forth.   There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what hinkie has succeeded in doing for that team.

Who was wrong about Embiid's health?  Who was wrong about what the hiring of Colangelo meant for Hinkie?

That would be you.
 
Mike

I have more knowledge about embiid's health than almost every single person on this forum, because I actually read all of the articles associated with his story instead of just buying Twitter posts that called him the next oden.  Most here still don't understand why embiid didn't play this year.

And yet, everyone else here was right in what was happening with Embiid. 

Not even remotely.  Most said he reinjured himself and the team was hiding it.  Go back and read those posts and my analysis of what was happening was closer to reality.   Nobody was completely correct, but the details I shared proved to be accurate.

The aspect I was "wrong" about was that I guessed he'd play.  But my reasoning was sound. He had no pain and was running around dunking on people. These proved to be accurate.  My guess was that the team wanted to make sure he was 100% healthy before he played so not to risk rejury. This proved to be true. The bone graft is intended to give him the best chance at a long career.  I guessed that he could play if the team wasn't concerned with his long term health.  From what I understand, this is also true... He could have played this season had they not cared about his long term health.  Yet ask most people here and they will probably tell you he rebroke something in rehab. Not accurate.

[Casperian]

There are plenty of reasons why it didn't work out, and none of them are especially surprising.  The plan has not yielded the kind of returns the Sixers no doubt hoped it would (i.e. they haven't become the Thunder yet) because they didn't have good luck in the lottery. 

Yes, they were not surprising. That's exactly why people act the way they do. So, you agree his eventual firing/resignation was inevitable and the right choice, given the evidence at hand?

Despite that, I think it's far too soon to have judged "The Process" a failure because most rebuilds are going to take a lot more than three years to come to fruition, especially when the starting point is as bad as it was for the Sixers.

That's all well and good (and awfully convenient for Hinkie), but his downfall wasn't in the hypotheticals, his downfall was what he actually did. Like, draft 3 Center prospects in a row, or trade away players who could become solid rotation players for basically nothing, as Lucky17 pointed out.

When Mbunge says Hinkie's plan consisted of

1. Suck
2. Get Lucky

and that he had no alternative, he may be oversimplifying things, but he is nonetheless factually correct, as that is exactly what Hinkie did. Whereas Ainge, for example, has many different routes he could pursue to bring us back into contention. The fact we're in this position didn't fall from the sky, either, we worked for it and paid a price to get there.

People act as if trading Pierce and KG wasn't a big deal. It was an enormous risk at the time, even if you believed the trade was the correct move. We could've just as easily kept the guys together and go for another playoff appearance and a 2nd round exit. People wanted to burn Ainge at the stake when he made that deal, calling him a snake, a traitor, and a despicable human being (and everyone who was for that trade). You think the labeling was bad when people wanted us to tank last year? That's nothing compared to back then. Some are still calling him that.

And it's not just "the trade". Heck, people went crazy when he traded Perk, another highly risky move that lead to us having the Memphis pick. He signed Brad Stevens as a Doc replacement, a young, unproven college coach. There's a long history of highly touted college wonders who never worked out in the NBA. He traded Rondo for Crowder, a Mavericks bench warmer. He traded for Isaiah Thomas when everyone and their mother wanted us to all out tank.

Ainge (the FO) paid a high price to get us were we are right now, not once, but several times. All Hinkie did was to chose the easy way out and preach blind faith in the ominous "process". There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest his plan over the last three years consisted of anything more than 1. suck and 2. get lucky, indeed.

[Casperian]

nvm

[Dino Pitino]

Let's imagine Ainge didn't have KG and Pierce to trade, and so the Brooklyn trade never takes place, we don't have any Brooklyn picks, KG and Pierce just up and retire in 2013. How would Ainge's record in that span look compared to Hinkie's? How do you think Ainge would have approached things differently than he has? I think he'd have approached things more or less just like Hinkie did. I think he would've been talking about The Process, too. Would he have signed or traded for Isaiah? Definitely no Amir, right? We would have sucked last year and probably this year, too, no? So that our own picks would approximate what the Brooklyn picks are now? And we'd be hoping for lottery luck? And if we got lucky with the ping pong balls, we'd also have to get a little lucky with whichever players we picked, unless we're talking Towns, yeah?

[MBunge]

Tp.  Some people just aren't going to "get it" with Philly until they see them improve.  They will cite "magic" as the reason for the sudden influx of talent.

The team is basically in perfect position for a quick turnaround.

Everyone "gets it" with Philly.  We just don't give them any credit for pursuing strategy that takes a steaming dump over the sport and we don't give them credit for success before it happens.

After three years of tanking, Philly doesn't have a legitimate starting point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up point guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate back up shooting guard.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting small forward.  It doesn't have a legitimate starting power forward.  The only legitimate back up power forward on the roster is 32 years old.

Yet despite decades of basketball and dozens (hundreds?) of teams that had even more talent and never amounted to anything, Philly is perfectly positioned for a quick turnaround?

Mike

Like I said, you don't get it

At this point, you aren't going to get it until you see results.  No point in posting about it back and forth.   There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what hinkie has succeeded in doing for that team.

Who was wrong about Embiid's health?  Who was wrong about what the hiring of Colangelo meant for Hinkie?

That would be you.
 
Mike

I have more knowledge about embiid's health than almost every single person on this forum, because I actually read all of the articles associated with his story instead of just buying Twitter posts that called him the next oden.  Most here still don't understand why embiid didn't play this year.

And yet, everyone else here was right in what was happening with Embiid. 

Not even remotely.  Most said he reinjured himself and the team was hiding it.  Go back and read those posts and my analysis of what was happening was closer to reality.   Nobody was completely correct, but the details I shared proved to be accurate.

The aspect I was "wrong" about was that I guessed he'd play.  But my reasoning was sound. He had no pain and was running around dunking on people. These proved to be accurate.  My guess was that the team wanted to make sure he was 100% healthy before he played so not to risk rejury. This proved to be true. The bone graft is intended to give him the best chance at a long career.  I guessed that he could play if the team wasn't concerned with his long term health.  From what I understand, this is also true... He could have played this season had they not cared about his long term health.  Yet ask most people here and they will probably tell you he rebroke something in rehab. Not accurate.

So, let me see if I understand this.

1.  You claim to be better informed about Embiid's health than any other person on this board.
2.  Despite that, you were still wrong about his health and whether he would play this past season.

That's your story?

You do realize that you're simply confirming my analysis?  That you are too deeply invested in Hinkie and his approach to think rationally about it.

Mike

[MBunge]

I think he'd have approached things more or less just like Hinkie did.

We can say with a large degree of certainty that Ainge would not have done what Hinkie did because he already had the opportunity to do so in the past.  When he took over, he blew up the core of a team that made the playoffs.  And even in the seasons after that when things looked bleak, he didn't strip mine the roster and fill the team with guys who should't be in the league.

There's also the fact that Ainge has been a competitor his whole life and wants to win through hard work and determination, not a parasite who wants everything handed to him.

Mike