Rozier vs. Portis

[lefty12]

Roster construction is the reason why taking rozier was questionable

Maybe DA knew Jordan Mickey would be available?

I still like portis over rozier

[Rosco917]

I hate, hate, hate, hate, hated the Rozier pick, but having seen some of his raw athleticism lately, I think the "lottery ticket v. 9-to-5" characterization is fair.

Portis tops out as maybe Jared Sullinger. (Not that they're similar players, but roughly that level.) There's a tiny possibility that Rozier could be something more.

Mostly I just wanted RHJ though. Even one more backup guy who could defend wings would have made a humongous difference this year.

Sorry, I'm seeing him as much better than Sully, especially on the defensive end. I wanted Portis in the draft, we needed the size and length. By next years end, he'll be paying dividends for the Bulls.

Rozier seems like a talented guard, quick, athletic, but is he a point guard, or another undersized 2 guard?

[tankcity!]

Yeah, Rozier might turn into a decent player, but it looks to me like a safe bet that Portis will end up having a more significant career.

It's true that the Chicago situation is different than Boston, but they were still loaded with veteran bigs vying for playing time and yet they were looking for reasons to work Portis into the rotation early on this season, before Noah had even gone out for good.  Portis has good size for either big position, can rebound, defend at least a little, and seems to have some range.  He's got a role in this league, in other words.

Rozier ... hard to say.  In the limited minutes he's gotten, he looks to have the physical ability to compete at the NBA level.  He's pulled down a fair number of boards for his size.


Looking back at the draft, it seems Ainge reached for a long-armed combo guard who's active on the boards and in man-to-man defense, but who has no true position and may or may not be able to shoot.

Shocker.

Oh well, not a make-or-break, just like the Young versus Hood thing.  Hopefully Rozier actually becomes a guy who can be relied on for rotation minutes, unlike Young.

Yes they were looking for ways to get Portis into the rotation, then once he got in the rotation, he didn't give them a ton. There is a reason he's only been playing 10-15 minutes a game lately.

For a point of reference: Last season before the C's made all their trades Danny Ainge stated that it was an organizational goal to get James Young more playing time. Just because the organization wants to get a young player time doesn't mean that player is any good, it just means that they have shown intriguing talent.

Yeah I really didn't get what he was talking about there either? TP. Bobby Portis barley plays, lol. And his stats aren't great so it's hard to determine who is the better player at this point. One thing is for sure, Rozier has more upside and with this team, I would take that chance. We really don't need another Bobby Portis. They already have Sullinger...

[tankcity!]

Yeah, Rozier might turn into a decent player, but it looks to me like a safe bet that Portis will end up having a more significant career.

It's true that the Chicago situation is different than Boston, but they were still loaded with veteran bigs vying for playing time and yet they were looking for reasons to work Portis into the rotation early on this season, before Noah had even gone out for good.  Portis has good size for either big position, can rebound, defend at least a little, and seems to have some range.  He's got a role in this league, in other words.

Rozier ... hard to say.  In the limited minutes he's gotten, he looks to have the physical ability to compete at the NBA level.  He's pulled down a fair number of boards for his size.


Looking back at the draft, it seems Ainge reached for a long-armed combo guard who's active on the boards and in man-to-man defense, but who has no true position and may or may not be able to shoot.

Shocker.

Oh well, not a make-or-break, just like the Young versus Hood thing.  Hopefully Rozier actually becomes a guy who can be relied on for rotation minutes, unlike Young.

I just want to say, you're a really negative poster, lol. You and Lbrrd specifically. Now Lbrrd thinks the Celtics have a shot at Kevin Durant. How the times have changed.

[tankcity!]

I hate, hate, hate, hate, hated the Rozier pick, but having seen some of his raw athleticism lately, I think the "lottery ticket v. 9-to-5" characterization is fair.

Portis tops out as maybe Jared Sullinger. (Not that they're similar players, but roughly that level.) There's a tiny possibility that Rozier could be something more.

Mostly I just wanted RHJ though. Even one more backup guy who could defend wings would have made a humongous difference this year.

Sorry, I'm seeing him as much better than Sully, especially on the defensive end. I wanted Portis in the draft, we needed the size and length. By next years end, he'll be paying dividends for the Bulls.

Rozier seems like a talented guard, quick, athletic, but is he a point guard, or another undersized 2 guard?

What are you exactly seeing from Portis? Both players haven't proven anything so far. Also, Portis has had a better opportunity to actually get minutes and he hasn't taken advantage. It's way too early to make a judgement. I think next year will truly provide our answer. I expect Rozier to make a jump and if he doesn't, then this debate will be conclusive.

[PhoSita]

Yeah I really didn't get what he was talking about there either? TP. Bobby Portis barley plays, lol.

Unless you're somehow referring to his microbrew hobby (on which I have no comment), this simply isn't true.



Portis has played 980 minutes this year in 57 games (3 starts).

He's given the Bulls solid per-minute production for a 17 mpg backup (14 pts 10 reb per-36).  He's even shown some range.

He has 13 games this season with 10 or more points, including a 20 point performance.  He has 6 games this season with 10 or more rebounds.



Rozier has played 280 minutes this year in 35 games.

He has a 32.5% TS% and his most notable contribution as a guard has been on the boards, averaging 7.6 rebounds per 36.

His best game was probably a 7 points 5 assist 3 rebound performance in a 14 point loss to Toronto.


Point being, Portis has actually gotten on the floor and given the Bulls something in a reserve role.  This doesn't suggest future stardom or anything, but he looks to be an NBA player.  He had a handful of nice games.

Rozier has made a few cameos and occasionally looked like he has some game in garbage time.  Overall, though, it's still a mystery if he's gonna find a place in the league.

[PhoSita]

I just want to say, you're a really negative poster, lol. You and Lbrrd specifically. Now Lbrrd thinks the Celtics have a shot at Kevin Durant. How the times have changed.

Aw shucks.

Well, you know, I'd offer some kind of comment on my impression of you as a poster, but I guess I'm positive enough that I'm going to go with that whole "If you don't have anything nice to say," thing on this one.

[tankcity!]

I just want to say, you're a really negative poster, lol. You and Lbrrd specifically. Now Lbrrd thinks the Celtics have a shot at Kevin Durant. How the times have changed.

Aw shucks.

Well, you know, I'd offer some kind of comment on my impression of you as a poster, but I guess I'm positive enough that I'm going to go with that whole "If you don't have anything nice to say," thing on this one.

Bro, you're wrong half the time. I don't what you can say about me. I just try to be honest. We already had this conversation about your prediction on the Net's pick...You were wrong, because you're overtly negative. It's pretty clear I'm not wearing green googles either, but at least I'm not a pessimist.

[tankcity!]

Yeah I really didn't get what he was talking about there either? TP. Bobby Portis barley plays, lol.

Unless you're somehow referring to his microbrew hobby (on which I have no comment), this simply isn't true.



Portis has played 980 minutes this year in 57 games (3 starts).

He's given the Bulls solid per-minute production for a 17 mpg backup (14 pts 10 reb per-36).  He's even shown some range.

He has 13 games this season with 10 or more points, including a 20 point performance.  He has 6 games this season with 10 or more rebounds.



Rozier has played 280 minutes this year in 35 games.

He has a 32.5% TS% and his most notable contribution as a guard has been on the boards, averaging 7.6 rebounds per 36.

His best game was probably a 7 points 5 assist 3 rebound performance in a 14 point loss to Toronto.


Point being, Portis has actually gotten on the floor and given the Bulls something in a reserve role.  This doesn't suggest future stardom or anything, but he looks to be an NBA player.  He had a handful of nice games.

Rozier has made a few cameos and occasionally looked like he has some game in garbage time.  Overall, though, it's still a mystery if he's gonna find a place in the league.

Yeah, Portis is averaging 17 minutes a game. That's a lot to you? What are you smoking? Second, HE WAS NBA READY COMING INTO THE DRAFT. This is basically what he will be, a role player. Rozier has much more upside. It's way way too early to judge. Do you expect Rozier to get minutes on a team that is guard heavy, and competing?

I personally think Rozier will be better, but I'm not going on a limb and stating my opinion on the matter because it's way too soon to determine. The only way to judge a player is how he performs after a offseason to work his game. This is why I gave Smart a break until this year. I've been crushing Smart and calling him a role player this year because he hasn't improved. It's easier to determine.

We will see how much your boy Bobby the motor Portis will improve. I'm going to guess not by much. He's probably just going to be an effective role player.

[PhoSita]

Yeah, Portis is averaging 17 minutes a game. That's a lot to you? What are you smoking? Second, HE WAS NBA READY COMING INTO THE DRAFT. This is basically what he will be, a role player. Rozier has much more upside. It's way way too early to judge. Do you expect Rozier to get minutes on a team that is guard heavy, and competing?

(a) Yes, 17 minutes per game is significant when we're talking about a rookie on a team competing for the playoffs, especially when we're comparing him to a rookie that played 8 minutes per game in less than half a season of appearances.

(b) Why is Portis "NBA ready" but Rozier has "upside"?  Portis and Rozier spent the same amount of time in college and Rozier is a year older.

(c) Rozier may have been buried behind a slew of guards, but Portis was buried behind Pau Gasol, Joakim Noah, Nikola Mirotic, and Taj Gibson.  Not to mention Doug McDermott, who is a combo forward.  So I don't think the situations were that different, at least until Noah went out.


I agree about Portis probably just being an "effective role player."  My point here is simply that there's very little evidence so far that Rozier will ever even reach that level, and the expectations of "NBA readiness" shouldn't have been any different with Rozier.

[lefty12]

Yeah I really didn't get what he was talking about there either? TP. Bobby Portis barley plays, lol.

Unless you're somehow referring to his microbrew hobby (on which I have no comment), this simply isn't true.



Portis has played 980 minutes this year in 57 games (3 starts).

He's given the Bulls solid per-minute production for a 17 mpg backup (14 pts 10 reb per-36).  He's even shown some range.

He has 13 games this season with 10 or more points, including a 20 point performance.  He has 6 games this season with 10 or more rebounds.



Rozier has played 280 minutes this year in 35 games.

He has a 32.5% TS% and his most notable contribution as a guard has been on the boards, averaging 7.6 rebounds per 36.

His best game was probably a 7 points 5 assist 3 rebound performance in a 14 point loss to Toronto.


Point being, Portis has actually gotten on the floor and given the Bulls something in a reserve role.  This doesn't suggest future stardom or anything, but he looks to be an NBA player.  He had a handful of nice games.

Rozier has made a few cameos and occasionally looked like he has some game in garbage time.  Overall, though, it's still a mystery if he's gonna find a place in the league.

Yeah, Portis is averaging 17 minutes a game. That's a lot to you? What are you smoking? Second, HE WAS NBA READY COMING INTO THE DRAFT. This is basically what he will be, a role player. Rozier has much more upside. It's way way too early to judge. Do you expect Rozier to get minutes on a team that is guard heavy, and competing?

I personally think Rozier will be better, but I'm not going on a limb and stating my opinion on the matter because it's way too soon to determine. The only way to judge a player is how he performs after a offseason to work his game. This is why I gave Smart a break until this year. I've been crushing Smart and calling him a role player this year because he hasn't improved. It's easier to determine.

We will see how much your boy Bobby the motor Portis will improve. I'm going to guess not by much. He's probably just going to be an effective role player.

So you won't go "out on a limb" on rozier - but you're ready to declare portis a role player?

[tankcity!]

Yeah, Portis is averaging 17 minutes a game. That's a lot to you? What are you smoking? Second, HE WAS NBA READY COMING INTO THE DRAFT. This is basically what he will be, a role player. Rozier has much more upside. It's way way too early to judge. Do you expect Rozier to get minutes on a team that is guard heavy, and competing?

(a) Yes, 17 minutes per game is significant when we're talking about a rookie on a team competing for the playoffs, especially when we're comparing him to a rookie that played 8 minutes per game in less than half a season of appearances.

(b) Why is Portis "NBA ready" but Rozier has "upside"?  Portis and Rozier spent the same amount of time in college and Rozier is a year older.

(c) Rozier may have been buried behind a slew of guards, but Portis was buried behind Pau Gasol, Joakim Noah, Nikola Mirotic, and Taj Gibson.  Not to mention Doug McDermott, who is a combo forward.  So I don't think the situations were that different, at least until Noah went out.


I agree about Portis probably just being an "effective role player."  My point here is simply that there's very little evidence so far that Rozier will ever even reach that level, and the expectations of "NBA readiness" shouldn't have been any different with Rozier.

Okay, point taken.

I think Rozier has more upside because of his elite athletecism and his handling, which is the hardest thing to improve upon in basketball. I'm guessing you have played the sport before so you would probably agree. Second, you really can't use stats to judge a player in their rookie season. I like to use my eyes. If Rozier gets a shot, which is the easiest thing to improve upon in basketball, then he will be pretty much deadly. Those are my two cents, but your opinion now makes sense to me. Thanks for clearing the air.

[tankcity!]

Yeah I really didn't get what he was talking about there either? TP. Bobby Portis barley plays, lol.

Unless you're somehow referring to his microbrew hobby (on which I have no comment), this simply isn't true.



Portis has played 980 minutes this year in 57 games (3 starts).

He's given the Bulls solid per-minute production for a 17 mpg backup (14 pts 10 reb per-36).  He's even shown some range.

He has 13 games this season with 10 or more points, including a 20 point performance.  He has 6 games this season with 10 or more rebounds.



Rozier has played 280 minutes this year in 35 games.

He has a 32.5% TS% and his most notable contribution as a guard has been on the boards, averaging 7.6 rebounds per 36.

His best game was probably a 7 points 5 assist 3 rebound performance in a 14 point loss to Toronto.


Point being, Portis has actually gotten on the floor and given the Bulls something in a reserve role.  This doesn't suggest future stardom or anything, but he looks to be an NBA player.  He had a handful of nice games.

Rozier has made a few cameos and occasionally looked like he has some game in garbage time.  Overall, though, it's still a mystery if he's gonna find a place in the league.

Yeah, Portis is averaging 17 minutes a game. That's a lot to you? What are you smoking? Second, HE WAS NBA READY COMING INTO THE DRAFT. This is basically what he will be, a role player. Rozier has much more upside. It's way way too early to judge. Do you expect Rozier to get minutes on a team that is guard heavy, and competing?

I personally think Rozier will be better, but I'm not going on a limb and stating my opinion on the matter because it's way too soon to determine. The only way to judge a player is how he performs after a offseason to work his game. This is why I gave Smart a break until this year. I've been crushing Smart and calling him a role player this year because he hasn't improved. It's easier to determine.

We will see how much your boy Bobby the motor Portis will improve. I'm going to guess not by much. He's probably just going to be an effective role player.

So you won't go "out on a limb" on rozier - but you're ready to declare portis a role player?

Yeah, Portis is clearly the safer pick. I think it's pretty obvious Portis is a role player...I haven't even seen Phosita disagree with that. He has limited athleticism and I don't think he has a great wingspan.

[aingeforthree]

I just want to say, you're a really negative poster, lol. You and Lbrrd specifically. Now Lbrrd thinks the Celtics have a shot at Kevin Durant. How the times have changed.

Aw shucks.

Well, you know, I'd offer some kind of comment on my impression of you as a poster, but I guess I'm positive enough that I'm going to go with that whole "If you don't have anything nice to say," thing on this one.

Bro, you're wrong half the time. I don't what you can say about me. I just try to be honest. We already had this conversation about your prediction on the Net's pick...You were wrong, because you're overtly negative. It's pretty clear I'm not wearing green googles either, but at least I'm not a pessimist.

Half the time ?  I think it's more like 90%, just being honest.

Rozier has a shot to be special.  He's got a lot to work on but he can do it.  Especially under the watch of guys like Ainge and Coach Stevens.

[PhoSita]

I just want to say, you're a really negative poster, lol. You and Lbrrd specifically. Now Lbrrd thinks the Celtics have a shot at Kevin Durant. How the times have changed.

Aw shucks.

Well, you know, I'd offer some kind of comment on my impression of you as a poster, but I guess I'm positive enough that I'm going to go with that whole "If you don't have anything nice to say," thing on this one.

Bro, you're wrong half the time. I don't what you can say about me. I just try to be honest. We already had this conversation about your prediction on the Net's pick...You were wrong, because you're overtly negative. It's pretty clear I'm not wearing green googles either, but at least I'm not a pessimist.

Half the time ?  I think it's more like 90%, just being honest.

Clearly we need forum analytics to settle this dispute.  Why isn't there a Celticsblog-Reference.com?

And if there's a horse more dead around here than that Nets pick and who thought what and why, I don't know of one.  We're talking "skeletal horse of Death himself" dead here.