Author Topic: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100  (Read 6976 times)

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Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 12:49:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Wow!!  We are talking about Draymond Green here, a second round pick who's ceiling was supposed to be as a very good role player.

Some folks aren't impressed with what he's accomplished because Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, Hakeem Olajuwon, Lebron James and Michael Jordan almost put up the same numbers?

Wow, Draymond, wow!!!

Fair enough - I don't mean to dismiss Draymond.  Great player.

But those types of wonky stat thresholds still annoy the hell out of me.
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Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 12:51:27 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.
because Danny was the only GM that didn't pick them when those players were still on the board.


If it reaches a point where the bulk of Danny's picks would not have been picked earlier in a redraft than they originally were in the draft, then you may begin to have something to whine about.

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 12:52:57 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.

Rondo was a draft for Ainge...but I guess if you want to be technical about it...

I guess trading the #5 pick in 2007 for an All Star doesn't count, either.

I also love how he's being taken to task for having passed on drafting Isaiah.   Yeah, if only Danny had the drafting acumen of the Sacramento Kings!   ::)
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 12:56:24 PM »

Offline incoherent

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Danny won us a championship by drafting a lot of really solid players late in the draft.  End of discussion on Danny's GMing abilities.

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 01:05:39 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.
because Danny was the only GM that didn't pick them when those players were still on the board.


If it reaches a point where the bulk of Danny's picks would not have been picked earlier in a redraft than they originally were in the draft, then you may begin to have something to whine about.
Look back ten years. Almost none of his picks would get drafted higher. Maybe Avery, Sully, Rj H, Jordan Mickey and that's it.

Gomes doesn't make you a good drafter.

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 01:05:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Danny won us a championship by drafting a lot of really solid players late in the draft.  End of discussion on Danny's GMing abilities.

This is ... an interesting take on the KG and Allen trades.

Not to mention that Pierce was a major part of the championship, and Ainge had nothing to do with that.
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Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2016, 01:07:12 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Danny won us a championship by drafting a lot of really solid players late in the draft.  End of discussion on Danny's GMing abilities.
There is no way on Earth to compare Danny's draft abilities to the elite teams in this league.


Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2016, 01:10:18 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Wow!!  We are talking about Draymond Green here, a second round pick who's ceiling was supposed to be as a very good role player.

Some folks aren't impressed with what he's accomplished because Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, Hakeem Olajuwon, Lebron James and Michael Jordan almost put up the same numbers?

Wow, Draymond, wow!!!

Fair enough - I don't mean to dismiss Draymond.  Great player.

But those types of wonky stat thresholds still annoy the hell out of me.

It could be worse, instead of using the standard round number thresholds, they could use the "no one's had this exact # or higher in every single category!" approach.  That one always kills me.

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2016, 01:27:37 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.

Rondo was a draft for Ainge...but I guess if you want to be technical about it...

Since we're being techincal and ignoring Rondo, as well as All-NBA Al Jefferson and All-Defense Tony Allen and Avery Bradley, we should compare other teams in the same time frame ('03-present):

San Antonio:  0 All Stars drafted
Dallas: 1 All Star drafted ('03 Josh Howard at #29).
Miami: 1 All Star drafted ('03 Dwyane Wade at #5)
Lakers: 2 All Stars drafted ('05 Andrew Bynum at #10, Marc Gasol at #48).
Houston: 0 All Stars drafted
Phoenix: 2 All Stars drafted ('05 Luol Deng at #7, '06 Rajon Rondo at #21).
Detroit: 1 All Star drafted ('12 Andre Drummond at #9).
Memphis: 2 All Stars drafted ('06 Kyle Lowry at #24, '08 Kevin Love at #5).
Charlotte: 0 All Stars drafted *only around since '04 draft.
Milwaukee: 0 All Stars drafted

So you have several teams with 0 All-Stars drafted, like the model franchise San Antonio.
You have teams like Phoenix and Memphis that drafted All-Stars and traded them away.
And then you have teams that got their one All-Star in the lottery (Detroit, Miami), while botching other lotteries (Darko, Beasley, etc.).

Sure there's 19 other teams I didn't mention.  Which one of those has that savvy GM who continually drafts All-Stars outside of the lottery?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 01:36:10 PM by bdm860 »

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Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2016, 01:35:18 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.

Rondo was a draft for Ainge...but I guess if you want to be technical about it...

Since we're being techincal and ignoring Rondo, as well as All-NBA Al Jefferson and All-Defense Tony Allen and Avery Bradley, we should compare other teams in the same time frame ('03-present):

San Antonio:  0 All Stars drafted
Dallas: 1 All Star drafted ('03 Josh Howard at #29).
Miami: 1 All Star drafted ('03 Dwyane Wade at #5)
Lakers: 2 All Stars drafted ('05 Andrew Bynum at #10, Marc Gasol at #48).
Houston: 0 All Stars drafted
Phoenix: 2 All Stars drafted ('05 Luol Deng at #7, '06 Rajon Rondo at #21).
Detroit: 1 All Star drafted ('12 Andre Drummond at #9).
Memphis: 2 All Stars drafted ('06 Kyle Lowry at #24, '08 Kevin Love at #5).
Charlotte: 0 All Stars drafted *only around since '04 draft.
Milwaukee: 0 All Stars drafted

So you have several teams with 0 All-Stars drafted, like the model franchise San Antonio.
You have teams like Phoenix and Memphis that drafted All-Stars and traded them away.
And then you have teams that got their one All-Star in the lottery (Detroit, Miami).

Sure there's 19 other teams I didn't mention.  Which one of those has that savvy GM who continually drafts All-Stars outside of the lottery?
Golden State apparently

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2016, 01:35:33 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.

Rondo was a draft for Ainge...but I guess if you want to be technical about it...

Since we're being techincal and ignoring Rondo, as well as All-NBA Al Jefferson and All-Defense Tony Allen and Avery Bradley, we should compare other teams in the same time frame ('03-present):

San Antonio:  0 All Stars drafted
Dallas: 1 All Star drafted ('03 Josh Howard at #29).
Miami: 1 All Star drafted ('03 Dwyane Wade at #5)
Lakers: 2 All Stars drafted ('05 Andrew Bynum at #10, Marc Gasol at #48).
Houston: 0 All Stars drafted
Phoenix: 2 All Stars drafted ('05 Luol Deng at #7, '06 Rajon Rondo at #21).
Detroit: 1 All Star drafted ('12 Andre Drummond at #9).
Memphis: 2 All Stars drafted ('06 Kyle Lowry at #24, '08 Kevin Love at #5).
Charlotte: 0 All Stars drafted *only around since '04 draft.
Milwaukee: 0 All Stars drafted

So you have several teams with 0 All-Stars drafted, like the model franchise San Antonio.
You have teams like Phoenix and Memphis that drafted All-Stars and traded them away.
And then you have teams that got their one All-Star in the lottery (Detroit, Miami).

Sure there's 19 other teams I didn't mention.  Which one of those has that savvy GM who continually drafts All-Stars outside of the lottery?
Kawhi Leonard was drafted by San Antonio, just like Rajon Rondo was drafted by Boston.  The pick was acquired before the selection but the trade wasn't finalized until after the draft, so while technically Indiana and Phoenix selected Leonard and Rondo, the reality is those players were drafted by San Antonio and Boston. 
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Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2016, 01:44:11 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Toronto picked Kyle Lowry 24th

Milwaukee picked Giannis in the teens after KO

The Bulls got Jimmy Butler 30th

Hassan Whiteside...where was he taken? Pretty good player?

Manu Ginobli. Tony Parker. Luis Scola. Where were they taken?

Kyle Korver...51rst

Jeff Teague taken 19th

Why are people acting like it's impossible to do this?


Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2016, 01:55:40 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Toronto picked Kyle Lowry 24th

Milwaukee picked Giannis in the teens after KO

The Bulls got Jimmy Butler 30th

Hassan Whiteside...where was he taken? Pretty good player?

Manu Ginobli. Tony Parker. Luis Scola. Where were they taken?

Kyle Korver...51rst

Jeff Teague taken 19th

Why are people acting like it's impossible to do this?

I guess for the same reason you're acting like so many teams do it.

Lowry and Korver were on their 3rd and 4th teams before being All-Stars, and it took 10+ seasons in the NBA for them to do it.  So why doesn't Ainge get credit for Isaiah Thomas?

The same GM that drafted Giannis took Jimmer Fredette ahead of Klay Thompson (and made several trades that started with this pick, getting nothing close to the value of Klay Thompson).

Are you saying Luis Scola is better than anybody Ainge has drafted?

And why again doesn't Ainge get credit for Rondo at #21?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 02:09:14 PM by bdm860 »

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Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2016, 02:14:55 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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Toronto picked Kyle Lowry 24th

Milwaukee picked Giannis in the teens after KO

The Bulls got Jimmy Butler 30th

Hassan Whiteside...where was he taken? Pretty good player?

Manu Ginobli. Tony Parker. Luis Scola. Where were they taken?

Kyle Korver...51rst

Jeff Teague taken 19th

Why are people acting like it's impossible to do this?

Thats what? Like one great player in each draft below 15? Those are pretty putrid odds.

Re: Green, first player to go 1000,500,500,100,100
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2016, 02:41:48 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Danny Ainge has been drafting for us since 2003. He has picked about 31 players now. Not a single one has become an all star.

Tired of missing them. Not Chandler Parsons. Jimmy Butler. Not this guy. Not Isaiah Thomas. Jordan Clarkson. Coulda drafted them. Didn't.
because Danny was the only GM that didn't pick them when those players were still on the board.


If it reaches a point where the bulk of Danny's picks would not have been picked earlier in a redraft than they originally were in the draft, then you may begin to have something to whine about.
Look back ten years. Almost none of his picks would get drafted higher. Maybe Avery, Sully, Rj H, Jordan Mickey and that's it.

Gomes doesn't make you a good drafter.
ok, let's go back 10 years, heck let's go back to 2004 just for fun.  We'll use the DraftSite.com draft redo's as reference since they're the one I can find annual redrafts for

2004: Al Jefferson 15 to 2, Tony Allen 25 to 10, Delonte West 24 to 24   ==> Danny 2 big wins on that one and if Delonte hadn't flamed out, he'd be higher.
2005: Gerald Green 18 to 22 , Ryan Gomes 50, Orien Greene 53 ==> Green slid but was an upside pick at the time and is back in the NBA.  we'll see where he ends up at the end of his career.  Gomes was a key piece to the KG trade.  Greene -- got some time even as the #53 player picked.
2006: Randy Foye --> traded, Leon Powe - #46 from Nuggets.   a key bench player for the championship
2007: Jeff Green --> traded, Gabe Pruitt - 32,  Glen Davis (part of the Ray Allen trade) 35 to 9 and a key bench player for the championship.
2008: JR Giddens 30 --> complete bust., Semih Erden - 60 --> decent looking prospect until he was injured then traded.
2009: Lester Hudson 58 -->hung around for awhile and has recently resurfaced in the league again.
2010: Avery Bradley 19 to 11 , Luke Harangody 52 --> what do you expect from #52?
2011: JuJaun Johnson 27 (in trade for Marshon Brooks) --> busted , E'Tuan Moore 55 --> still playing for the Bulls.
2012: Jared Sullinger 21 to 8, Fab Melo 22 --> complete bust, Kris Joseph 51 --> bounced around from D-League to NBA on call-ups
2013: Kelly Olynyk (draft day trade) 13 to 16.  How this site rates him behind the likes of Otto Porter, Ben Mclemore, Mason Plumlee and Cody Zeller is beyond me.  Only site I've seen drop KO in position but that's me being honest with what I'm posting
2014: Marcus Smart 6 to 11, James Young 9 to 29.  Smart behind Randle, Exum, Hood, Capela, Payton, Lavine and Clarkson.  not buying it.  evidently putting a high emphasis on offense without regard to D.  Can't believe Young is even rated.
2015: Terry Rozier 16 to 19 --> hard to argue with the lack of playing time, RJ Hunter 28 to 29 -->some of the names ahead of him I've never heard of but again--lack of playing time would justify a lower position, Jordan Mickey 33 --> looking like a solid prospect , Marcus Thornton 45 --> no expectations with this pick at all.

bottom line, danny's record is pretty respectable overall.  has he hit a Big Al type of home run recently, no.  Has he botched the draft completely where there were obvious better players still on the board?  sure, Giddens and Fab but a case can be made for everyone else he picked that they were a solid pick at that time.