Mannix: Celtics called Bulls about Jimmy Butler at trade deadline

[chambers]

I think Crowder stays as insurance incase we can't get Durant here until 2017.

No need to give up Crowder. I think Danny would give up a few more assets like future picks or even Rozier before he included Crowder in a Butler trade.

Imagine:

IT
Butler
Crowder
Olynyk
Horford

as a starting point next season.

[jpotter33]

I think Crowder stays as insurance incase we can't get Durant here until 2017.

No need to give up Crowder. I think Danny would give up a few more assets like future picks or even Rozier before he included Crowder in a Butler trade.

Imagine:

IT
Butler
Crowder
Olynyk
Horford

as a starting point next season.

I do love the look of that team, even without Durant in it. Very balanced offensively and defensively, and the extra height in the backcourt will ease some of IT's height issues.

It should be noted that Chicago supposedly coveted Rozier in the draft, too, so he might be yet another asset for us to entice them in a trade.

[chambers]

there's actually a thread on RealGM asking the Bulls board about a potential Jimmy Butler/Celtics trade. If anyone's interested take a look here....
They are pretty realistic for the most part...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1429813

[jpotter33]

there's actually a thread on RealGM asking the Bulls board about a potential Jimmy Butler/Celtics trade. If anyone's interested take a look here....
They are pretty realistic for the most part...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1429813

A lot of them are saying Crowder, Smart, and a top-2 Brooklyn pick. To me, that's too much, especially when you compare Crowder and Butler and realize that Crowder is already extremely similar statistically to Butler (very, very close when usage and minutes played are accounted for) while being younger (with room to grow), cheaper, and without the potential leadership/character concerns that Jimmy has shown in Chicago this year.

I mean, just look how similar they are statistically per 36:

Career -  http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=butleji01&y2=2016&p2=crowdja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

This year - http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=crowdja01&y2=2016&p2=butleji01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

[chambers]

there's actually a thread on RealGM asking the Bulls board about a potential Jimmy Butler/Celtics trade. If anyone's interested take a look here....
They are pretty realistic for the most part...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1429813

A lot of them are saying Crowder, Smart, and a top-2 Brooklyn pick. To me, that's too much, especially when you compare Crowder and Butler and realize that Crowder is already extremely similar statistically to Butler (very, very close when usage and minutes played are accounted for) while being younger (with room to grow), cheaper, and without the potential leadership/character concerns that Jimmy has shown in Chicago this year.

I mean, just look how similar they are statistically per 36:

Career -  http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=butleji01&y2=2016&p2=crowdja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

This year - http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=crowdja01&y2=2016&p2=butleji01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Yeah a few are saying that, but the majority seem happy with a brooklyn pick+Smart or Rozier with some filler.

Put it this way, Danny Ainge understands how important Crowder is to a championship run. He's a vital piece and he's not giving him up in a Butler deal. His goal would be to put Butler next to Crowder and make them the toughest 2/3 combo in the NBA.

[greece66]

I think that it is safe to assume by now that Danny made proposals for every single player we are interested at the deadline. Butler and Love for sure, almost certainly Okafor too, and a lot more others.

[jbpats]

Why would the Bulls trade Butler?
He's young and a stud. The rebuild will be around him not without him.

Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol and Noah are the guys they'll want to unload. Not a top 10 level NBA talent who hasn't even hit his peak yet.

[Moranis]

Why would the Bulls trade Butler?
He's young and a stud. The rebuild will be around him not without him.

Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol and Noah are the guys they'll want to unload. Not a top 10 level NBA talent who hasn't even hit his peak yet.

Many reasons.  1. he would yield the most in return.  2. his value is currently at its peak (or is awful close to it) 3. he is good enough to keep Chicago from totally tanking and thus limits rebuilds options.  4. he is a good player, but he is not a great build around type player.  5. he hasn't shown the best leadership. 6. he may not be the kind of guy that will attract major free agents to Chicago. 7. players of his caliber don't often like to go from contender to rebuilding and thus he may become unhappy.

I'm sure there are others, but that is 7 to start with.

[i believe in brad]

Why would the Bulls trade Butler?
He's young and a stud. The rebuild will be around him not without him.

Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol and Noah are the guys they'll want to unload. Not a top 10 level NBA talent who hasn't even hit his peak yet.

There's been recent speculation that the entire team is in disarray: Butler + others not happy with coach, players not happy with Butler's shot selection/rise to prominence.  I'd say it's unlikely they trade him but any time you have systematic team drama like that, it's possible that a complete reset is in the cards.

Also to build around Butler you kind of need assets.  Besides Portis, I really don't see what they have to build another team around Butler*.  Pau will probably opt out after this year, Noah is a shell of himself, D-rose a shell of himself, no juicy picks coming in.  If they blew everything up but kept Butler, they'd be putting themselves in NBA purgatory (too bad for playoffs, too good for top pick).  With a godfather type offer from C's, the Bulls could position themselves to possibly grab a younger-than-Butler franchise guy (top 3 pick) with other valuable pieces around him (something like Marcus + AB + Rozier + Mavs 1st).  Probably too much for Butler but you get the point.

*EDIT: McBuckets and Mirotic are the other 2 that would probably stay, but that doesn't exactly change my point.

[slamtheking]

there's actually a thread on RealGM asking the Bulls board about a potential Jimmy Butler/Celtics trade. If anyone's interested take a look here....
They are pretty realistic for the most part...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1429813

A lot of them are saying Crowder, Smart, and a top-2 Brooklyn pick. To me, that's too much, especially when you compare Crowder and Butler and realize that Crowder is already extremely similar statistically to Butler (very, very close when usage and minutes played are accounted for) while being younger (with room to grow), cheaper, and without the potential leadership/character concerns that Jimmy has shown in Chicago this year.

I mean, just look how similar they are statistically per 36:

Career -  http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=butleji01&y2=2016&p2=crowdja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

This year - http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=crowdja01&y2=2016&p2=butleji01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Yeah a few are saying that, but the majority seem happy with a brooklyn pick+Smart or Rozier with some filler.

Put it this way, Danny Ainge understands how important Crowder is to a championship run. He's a vital piece and he's not giving him up in a Butler deal. His goal would be to put Butler next to Crowder and make them the toughest 2/3 combo in the NBA.

if it only takes the Brooklyn pick with Smart or Rozier (with some other small pieces with Rozier) to get him, that's one I'd make without hesitation.  I'm becoming less enchanted with this year's draft and while I love Smart, I'm a little concerned his offense may not develop to the point where we can count on him for 15+ points a night.  Pick with Smart and salary-matching bodies is a deal worth making to get someone like Butler.

[pearljammer10]

Why would the Bulls trade Butler?
He's young and a stud. The rebuild will be around him not without him.

Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol and Noah are the guys they'll want to unload. Not a top 10 level NBA talent who hasn't even hit his peak yet.

Many reasons.  1. he would yield the most in return.  2. his value is currently at its peak (or is awful close to it) 3. he is good enough to keep Chicago from totally tanking and thus limits rebuilds options.  4. he is a good player, but he is not a great build around type player.  5. he hasn't shown the best leadership. 6. he may not be the kind of guy that will attract major free agents to Chicago. 7. players of his caliber don't often like to go from contender to rebuilding and thus he may become unhappy.

I'm sure there are others, but that is 7 to start with.

Agreed with all of these, plus an 8th would be he has been somewhat injury prone in Chicago. 9. he will be 27 before next season starts...Not old by any means, but for a star to rebuild around, the window isnt as long as it was a few years ago. Now would be there chance to completely rebuild.

[PhoSita]

I would love Butler on the C's, and I think he's a perfect fit on our team. However, does his presence make one of Crowder or Bradley expendable? We'd probably have to include one of them in a trade for Butler, right?

Also, I worry that we'd actually be trading for a guy in a position of strength of ours, i.e. the 2/3 swing position. I'd really like to use our trading chips for a big rather than a wing.

The Celts have a wealth of guys who can play 1/2 and maybe switch onto the 3.  I don't know of anybody other than Crowder who I'd really call a swing 2/3.

My answer to this is the same as when somebody asked what would happen to Crowder if the Celts draft Ingram.  The Celts could use 4-5 guys, at least, with the Crowder / Butler skillset.

See post above. I'd just rather use our good assets to pick up a big rather than a wing, because we're more in need of a big than a wing right now.

I'd rather get Butler than Cousins, all things considered.  Cousins is a headcase who probably needs to be on a team where he's not the alpha dog, and he only has 2 years left on his contract so his impending free agency becomes an issue fairly quickly.

And really, with where the league is at right now, I think the Celtics would be better off adding an excellent versatile scoring wing who can defend multiple positions as opposed to going after a high usage big.   Obviously you go for whatever talent is available, so if it's a high usage big (e.g. Okafor or Greg Monroe or whoever) you do it.  But I'd rather add an elite scoring wing with versatile defense.

[Moranis]

I would love Butler on the C's, and I think he's a perfect fit on our team. However, does his presence make one of Crowder or Bradley expendable? We'd probably have to include one of them in a trade for Butler, right?

Also, I worry that we'd actually be trading for a guy in a position of strength of ours, i.e. the 2/3 swing position. I'd really like to use our trading chips for a big rather than a wing.

The Celts have a wealth of guys who can play 1/2 and maybe switch onto the 3.  I don't know of anybody other than Crowder who I'd really call a swing 2/3.

My answer to this is the same as when somebody asked what would happen to Crowder if the Celts draft Ingram.  The Celts could use 4-5 guys, at least, with the Crowder / Butler skillset.

See post above. I'd just rather use our good assets to pick up a big rather than a wing, because we're more in need of a big than a wing right now.

I'd rather get Butler than Cousins, all things considered.  Cousins is a headcase who probably needs to be on a team where he's not the alpha dog, and he only has 2 years left on his contract so his impending free agency becomes an issue fairly quickly.

And really, with where the league is at right now, I think the Celtics would be better off adding an excellent versatile scoring wing who can defend multiple positions as opposed to going after a high usage big.   Obviously you go for whatever talent is available, so if it's a high usage big (e.g. Okafor or Greg Monroe or whoever) you do it.  But I'd rather add an elite scoring wing with versatile defense.

Cousins is probably a head case, but he is also a generational talent for his position, something Butler is most certainly not.  On a team that clearly had a #1 or #2 guy in place, I think Butler makes more sense, but on a team that is mostly a bunch of #3 type players, like the Celtics, I think Cousins is the way to go and you just hope a change of scenery and out of the blackhole that is Sacramento is all Cousins needs.  Give him a good coach, a strong organizational structure, etc. and you hope he gets his stuff together. 

[footey]

I would love Butler on the C's, and I think he's a perfect fit on our team. However, does his presence make one of Crowder or Bradley expendable? We'd probably have to include one of them in a trade for Butler, right?

Also, I worry that we'd actually be trading for a guy in a position of strength of ours, i.e. the 2/3 swing position. I'd really like to use our trading chips for a big rather than a wing.

The Celts have a wealth of guys who can play 1/2 and maybe switch onto the 3.  I don't know of anybody other than Crowder who I'd really call a swing 2/3.

My answer to this is the same as when somebody asked what would happen to Crowder if the Celts draft Ingram.  The Celts could use 4-5 guys, at least, with the Crowder / Butler skillset.

Point being missed about Crowder: not his skill set, which is admirable, but not irreplacable. It's his skill set under an incredibly cap friendly contract. One of Ainge's greatest executive decisions in the last several years IMO.

[Evantime34]

I wonder what the Celtics would have to give up to have the best offer for Butler.

This year's Brooklyn pick, Bradley, the 2018 Brooklyn pick and any of Rozier, Young, Hunter or Mickey seems fair for both sides imo. If they wanted Smart instead of Bradley I'd want to keep the 2018 Brooklyn pick and replace it with a lesser pick.

If the C's don't get in the top 3 I think Ainge will try to move the pick for a star, whether it be Blake, Boogie, Butler or someone else.