Is the little guy a top 20 player in the NBA

[PhoSita]

My favorite comparative ranking system for NBA players is BBallReference's VORP (value over replacement player).  I find the name to be stupid, and I have no idea how they formulate the numbers, but I'be found it to coincide the most with how I see players' respective values to their teams.  One of my co-gms in the DKC (I think it was MarinadeinRA) turned me onto it.

Anyway, here is their top twenty by VORP:

1.  Steph Curry
2.  Russell Westbrook
3.  Lebron James
4.  Kyle Lowry
5.  James Harden
6.  Kevin Durant
7.  Kawhi Leonard
8.  Chris Paul
9.  Draymond Green
10.  Paul George
11.  Paul Millsap
12.  Damian Lillard
13.  Kemba Walker
14.   Al Horford
15.  John Wall
16.  Pau Gasol
17.  Jimmy Butler
18.  Isaiah Thomas
19.  Deandre Jordan
20.  Gordon Hayward

That seems about right to me.  I agree that our Isaiah Thomas is somewhere between the 15th to 20th best player in the league right now.

Looks mostly right, but the omission of Cousins and Davis, not to mention Drummond (and Griffin, when he's healthy) is pretty glaring.

Also, I like Kemba and Horford, but they're not top 15.  Millsap is a really nice player but borderline top 10 is a bridge too far there for me, as well.

[max215]

My favorite comparative ranking system for NBA players is BBallReference's VORP (value over replacement player).  I find the name to be stupid, and I have no idea how they formulate the numbers, but I'be found it to coincide the most with how I see players' respective values to their teams.  One of my co-gms in the DKC (I think it was MarinadeinRA) turned me onto it.

Anyway, here is their top twenty by VORP:

1.  Steph Curry
2.  Russell Westbrook
3.  Lebron James
4.  Kyle Lowry
5.  James Harden
6.  Kevin Durant
7.  Kawhi Leonard
8.  Chris Paul
9.  Draymond Green
10.  Paul George
11.  Paul Millsap
12.  Damian Lillard
13.  Kemba Walker
14.   Al Horford
15.  John Wall
16.  Pau Gasol
17.  Jimmy Butler
18.  Isaiah Thomas
19.  Deandre Jordan
20.  Gordon Hayward

That seems about right to me.  I agree that our Isaiah Thomas is somewhere between the 15th to 20th best player in the league right now.

Looks mostly right, but the omission of Cousins and Davis, not to mention Drummond (and Griffin, when he's healthy) is pretty glaring.

Also, I like Kemba and Horford, but they're not top 15.  Millsap is a really nice player but borderline top 10 is a bridge too far there for me, as well.

I'd add Pau to the list of guys who are too high, but some may disagree.

[DarkAzcura]

I think we would need to make a list of top 15 players and then see whether IT is part of the next 5 best guys.

 Curry
 Lebron
 Kawai
 Durant
 Westbrook
 Lillard
 Harden
 A Davis
 Paul George
 Chris Paul

 So there is 10 guys you would clearly take over Thomas. Here are some more names now it's not so easy to say I'd take then over Thomas.

 Cousin's Punk loser.
 Derozan
 Klay Thompson
 Butler
 Draymond Green
 John Wall
 Drummond
 Love
 Irving
 Wade
 Aldridge

 So that's 21 of the better players in the NBA. How many on the second list would you rather have over Thomas.

All +BG and maybe another 2 or 3 guys

Edit add; the other guys I'd also put ahead of IT
Marc Gasol, Duncan, Lowry, KAT, Favors, Milsap, GA and Melo.

Giannis?  no.  he hasn't proven anything yet.  the others, yes but KAT is getting there based on future projections.  Would add Horford, Milsap, Ibaka, Bosh, Hayward for sure.   Dirk if he was a little younger.     Probably Conley.  Maybe Parker based on his game savvy in crunch time.

Key consideration --> while IT is really something on the offensive end, he's still a defensive liability.  I'd gladly sacrifice some of the offense for a PG that provides a better all-around game-->better D, more of a passer than a shooter, able to provide help on the boards and isn't rendered an easy bucket in a post-up situation.

Almost every point guard in the league is a defensive liability. People over think IT's defensive issues to the point of completely under rating him, IMO. Dudes like Irving and Lillard are complete seives on the defensive end and are almost as big liabilities on that end.

[danglertx]

The 4 is actually a really hard spot to fill with a highly productive two-way player these days.

I disagree.  Even bad teams have good 4s.  I can't think of a lot of teams who don't have a serviceable power forward.  Lee was jettisoned for nothing and he is pulling down double doubles.

You'll notice I said "two way player."

Many of the most productive 4s are one way players, can't shoot, or both.

You could say that about every position, why is it more of an issue at the 4?  Demarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, James Harden, Carmelo, IT, and on and on and on.  How many really good two way players are there at any position? 

[Celtics18]

My favorite comparative ranking system for NBA players is BBallReference's VORP (value over replacement player).  I find the name to be stupid, and I have no idea how they formulate the numbers, but I'be found it to coincide the most with how I see players' respective values to their teams.  One of my co-gms in the DKC (I think it was MarinadeinRA) turned me onto it.

Anyway, here is their top twenty by VORP:

1.  Steph Curry
2.  Russell Westbrook
3.  Lebron James
4.  Kyle Lowry
5.  James Harden
6.  Kevin Durant
7.  Kawhi Leonard
8.  Chris Paul
9.  Draymond Green
10.  Paul George
11.  Paul Millsap
12.  Damian Lillard
13.  Kemba Walker
14.   Al Horford
15.  John Wall
16.  Pau Gasol
17.  Jimmy Butler
18.  Isaiah Thomas
19.  Deandre Jordan
20.  Gordon Hayward

That seems about right to me.  I agree that our Isaiah Thomas is somewhere between the 15th to 20th best player in the league right now.

You want to go by that as a list? There is no Cousins or Anthony Davis

Not enough games played or contributions to wins for those guys.  Cousins tied for 24th, Davis tied for 28th according to VORP. 

I'm not trying to say the stat measures the contributions of NBA players with perfect accuracy.  No stat does that.  It's just the one I like best.

That said, I can see-as talented as they both undeniably are-quite legitimate reasons for neither Anthony Davis nor Demarcus Cousins being in the top twenty for this season.

[PhoSita]

My favorite comparative ranking system for NBA players is BBallReference's VORP (value over replacement player).  I find the name to be stupid, and I have no idea how they formulate the numbers, but I'be found it to coincide the most with how I see players' respective values to their teams.  One of my co-gms in the DKC (I think it was MarinadeinRA) turned me onto it.

Anyway, here is their top twenty by VORP:

1.  Steph Curry
2.  Russell Westbrook
3.  Lebron James
4.  Kyle Lowry
5.  James Harden
6.  Kevin Durant
7.  Kawhi Leonard
8.  Chris Paul
9.  Draymond Green
10.  Paul George
11.  Paul Millsap
12.  Damian Lillard
13.  Kemba Walker
14.   Al Horford
15.  John Wall
16.  Pau Gasol
17.  Jimmy Butler
18.  Isaiah Thomas
19.  Deandre Jordan
20.  Gordon Hayward

That seems about right to me.  I agree that our Isaiah Thomas is somewhere between the 15th to 20th best player in the league right now.

Looks mostly right, but the omission of Cousins and Davis, not to mention Drummond (and Griffin, when he's healthy) is pretty glaring.

Also, I like Kemba and Horford, but they're not top 15.  Millsap is a really nice player but borderline top 10 is a bridge too far there for me, as well.

I'd add Pau to the list of guys who are too high, but some may disagree.

Pau's definitely way too high on that list.

[Celtics18]

My favorite comparative ranking system for NBA players is BBallReference's VORP (value over replacement player).  I find the name to be stupid, and I have no idea how they formulate the numbers, but I'be found it to coincide the most with how I see players' respective values to their teams.  One of my co-gms in the DKC (I think it was MarinadeinRA) turned me onto it.

Anyway, here is their top twenty by VORP:

1.  Steph Curry
2.  Russell Westbrook
3.  Lebron James
4.  Kyle Lowry
5.  James Harden
6.  Kevin Durant
7.  Kawhi Leonard
8.  Chris Paul
9.  Draymond Green
10.  Paul George
11.  Paul Millsap
12.  Damian Lillard
13.  Kemba Walker
14.   Al Horford
15.  John Wall
16.  Pau Gasol
17.  Jimmy Butler
18.  Isaiah Thomas
19.  Deandre Jordan
20.  Gordon Hayward

That seems about right to me.  I agree that our Isaiah Thomas is somewhere between the 15th to 20th best player in the league right now.

Looks mostly right, but the omission of Cousins and Davis, not to mention Drummond (and Griffin, when he's healthy) is pretty glaring.

Also, I like Kemba and Horford, but they're not top 15.  Millsap is a really nice player but borderline top 10 is a bridge too far there for me, as well.

I'd add Pau to the list of guys who are too high, but some may disagree.

Pau's definitely way too high on that list.

I thought the same thing.  Then I had a gander at his numbers for the season:

17 PPG, 11 RPG, 4 APG, 2 BPG.

That's sort of ridiculous.  He may actually be having the best season of his illustrious career.

Man, that guy has been overlooked so often.

[Celtics18]

Just want to add on Gasol:

4th in the league in blocks per game
6th in the league in rebounds per game
1st in the league in assists per game by a center

He might be ranked too low.

[greece66]

Top offensive player, but his size limits his  defensive potential.

[Celtics18]

Top offensive player, but his size limits his  defensive potential.

I've been thinking about the whole "his size really hurts him on the defensive end" argument, and I'm not putting that much credence into it.  It's not like opposing point guards are going in and posting him up all game every game.  As a matter of fact, it's kind of rare.  Good point guards beat him the same way they beat all the other point guards in the league; off the dribble.  I don't see how that makes him any more of a liability than most other guys at his position.

He made some fairly nice plays defensively against Cory Joseph tonight.

[Kuberski33]

He's definitely in the top 20 - maybe 19 or 20 but he's definitely in there.  IT is consistently underrated even by the fans.  Go to a game and you really don't see anyone wearing his jersey.  I heard Glen Ordway today saying they don't have any 'star' players.  Yes they do!

IT gets his points regardless of the opponent and this despite opposing defenses always being geared toward limiting him.  And he makes big shots.  Definition of a Top 20 player - and he's still improving.

[Celtics18]

He's definitely in the top 20 - maybe 19 or 20 but he's definitely in there.  IT is consistently underrated even by the fans.  Go to a game and you really don't see anyone wearing his jersey.  I heard Glen Ordway today saying they don't have any 'star' players.  Yes they do!

IT gets his points regardless of the opponent and this despite opposing defenses always being geared toward limiting him.  And he makes big shots.  Definition of a Top 20 player - and he's still improving.

Ya!!

[tankcity!]

Yes for me, since he is carrying the Celtics without another all star.

[Dino Pitino]

Should have asked whether Isaiah is a Top 25 player.
The answer would've been easy: YAH!

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Pound for Pound its a no contest