ESPN Top 50 Trade Values (3 Cs included)

[crimson_stallion]

unbelievable

In terms of the Sixers, it certainly is going to be difficult to reconcile your opinion to the rankings. I think it's fair to say that the Sixers are very difficult to measure even though you invariably seem to think the best of them.

The statistical problem with Okafor is that he's has the 2nd worst Real +/- among centers only to Bargnani and the numbers are bad on both sides of the ball. I think his currently poor Offensive Real +/- will improve dramatically as Colangelo beefs up the team and gets a real PG, but IMO his Defensive Real +/- won't.

Noel has a much better overall RPM and is 3rd among PFs in Defensive Real +/-. Unfortunately, his offensive deficiencies almost offset his defensive abilities. He would be better off at center with a real PG, but that is another byproduct of the Hinkie fiasco. Both players, as well as Embiid, need a real PG, competent team mates, and time to re-establish their value. If the Sixers are to get rid of one of the centers soon it should be Okafor as Noel has more upside.

Pelton cannot value players who have not played a minute in the NBA like Embiid or Saric. Otherwise, Covington is a tremendous value for the Sixers, but if that is Hinkie's best move, it isn't very good.

As for your whipping boy Smart, he has the 6th best Defensive Real +/- and 19th best overall Real +/- among point guards. He's younger than all the PGs ahead of him and by an average of 5 years. He is a lot better than you give him credit for, but so is the rest of the team.

Well said.

I absolutely agree that Noel is more valuable right now than Okafor.  There is ALWAYS value in an athletic seven footer with elite defensive talents - teams are always going to fight over players like that, even if they are very offensively limited (e.g. DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler in his prime, Omer Asik).

However, big men who can't do much beyond score in the post have very little perceived value in this league right now.  If Okafor had a dependable midrange jumper, or if he was a really good rebounder, or if he was a very skilled passer, or if he was a beast at drawing fouls...then that value would be higher.  Right now though he is incredibly limited, and beyond his low post scoring ability (which is certainly impressive) there is not really much to get excited about.  Even his reasonably impressive scoring numbers don't hold much weight, given they are exhagerated by the fact that he plays on such a terrible team.

Given how close people had Towns and Okafor in the draft, I'm really quite astounded that the two have proven to be so far apart in terms of talent.

Based on draft scouting reports, etc, I expected Okafor to be much more effective on offense (I expected he'd at least have a respectable jumper, and that he'd have solid passing ability from the post) and while I didn't expect his defense to be good, I didn't expect it to be Enes Kanter bad either.  Huge dissapointment, and the attitude problems only reduce his value further.

Gambling on Embiid was an easy call to make and most GM's would have done the same, but it has cost the Sixers in a huge, huge way. 

That said, I think the stupidest move they have made this whole time was trading Michael Carter Williams for a Lakers pick that they (IIRC) never even got.  MCW has his flaws, but he was a Rookie of the Year at the time and has developed into a pretty solid point guard...and right now the Sixers are absolutely desperate for a half decent PG.

Philly could have brought in Saric at PF (as a stretch four) and started him along with Noel an MCW. They could have then moved Okafor on draft day, when his value was highest, for a borderline all-star SG/SF (or could have used their pick on Muiday/Winslow) and they would have had had a REALLY nice core to build around.  MCW would have been great because he has the versatility to play either guard position, so it would have given Philly more flexibility when adding future talent. Then on top of all that, they still would have had Embiid as a wildcard. 

I didn't get the MCW deal at the time - when I heard it I though it was one of the dumbest trades ever.  Looking back at it now, it seems even stupider then it did then.

[chambers]

So IT has more trade value than Blake Griffin?

Lol BSPN

[CelticSince83]

This is more like Contract Value than Trade Value. Isaiah Thomas is not actually worth more in a real-life trade scenario than Blake Griffin. Still awesome to see three Celtics. Ainge is a beast.

TP.  Exactly.  Idiotic to call this a ranking of trade value.

[colincb]

unbelievable

In terms of the Sixers, it certainly is going to be difficult to reconcile your opinion to the rankings. I think it's fair to say that the Sixers are very difficult to measure even though you invariably seem to think the best of them.

The statistical problem with Okafor is that he's has the 2nd worst Real +/- among centers only to Bargnani and the numbers are bad on both sides of the ball. I think his currently poor Offensive Real +/- will improve dramatically as Colangelo beefs up the team and gets a real PG, but IMO his Defensive Real +/- won't.

Noel has a much better overall RPM and is 3rd among PFs in Defensive Real +/-. Unfortunately, his offensive deficiencies almost offset his defensive abilities. He would be better off at center with a real PG, but that is another byproduct of the Hinkie fiasco. Both players, as well as Embiid, need a real PG, competent team mates, and time to re-establish their value. If the Sixers are to get rid of one of the centers soon it should be Okafor as Noel has more upside.

Pelton cannot value players who have not played a minute in the NBA like Embiid or Saric. Otherwise, Covington is a tremendous value for the Sixers, but if that is Hinkie's best move, it isn't very good.

As for your whipping boy Smart, he has the 6th best Defensive Real +/- and 19th best overall Real +/- among point guards. He's younger than all the PGs ahead of him and by an average of 5 years. He is a lot better than you give him credit for, but so is the rest of the team.

Well said.

I absolutely agree that Noel is more valuable right now than Okafor.  There is ALWAYS value in an athletic seven footer with elite defensive talents - teams are always going to fight over players like that, even if they are very offensively limited (e.g. DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler in his prime, Omer Asik).

However, big men who can't do much beyond score in the post have very little perceived value in this league right now.  If Okafor had a dependable midrange jumper, or if he was a really good rebounder, or if he was a very skilled passer, or if he was a beast at drawing fouls...then that value would be higher.  Right now though he is incredibly limited, and beyond his low post scoring ability (which is certainly impressive) there is not really much to get excited about.  Even his reasonably impressive scoring numbers don't hold much weight, given they are exhagerated by the fact that he plays on such a terrible team.

Given how close people had Towns and Okafor in the draft, I'm really quite astounded that the two have proven to be so far apart in terms of talent.

Based on draft scouting reports, etc, I expected Okafor to be much more effective on offense (I expected he'd at least have a respectable jumper, and that he'd have solid passing ability from the post) and while I didn't expect his defense to be good, I didn't expect it to be Enes Kanter bad either.  Huge dissapointment, and the attitude problems only reduce his value further.

Gambling on Embiid was an easy call to make and most GM's would have done the same, but it has cost the Sixers in a huge, huge way. 

That said, I think the stupidest move they have made this whole time was trading Michael Carter Williams for a Lakers pick that they (IIRC) never even got.  MCW has his flaws, but he was a Rookie of the Year at the time and has developed into a pretty solid point guard...and right now the Sixers are absolutely desperate for a half decent PG.

Philly could have brought in Saric at PF (as a stretch four) and started him along with Noel an MCW. They could have then moved Okafor on draft day, when his value was highest, for a borderline all-star SG/SF (or could have used their pick on Muiday/Winslow) and they would have had had a REALLY nice core to build around.  MCW would have been great because he has the versatility to play either guard position, so it would have given Philly more flexibility when adding future talent. Then on top of all that, they still would have had Embiid as a wildcard. 

I didn't get the MCW deal at the time - when I heard it I though it was one of the dumbest trades ever.  Looking back at it now, it seems even stupider then it did then.

The Sixers will get the Lakers pick eventually, but it could be as long as 4 drafts after the fact. The pick looked worse at the time of the trade before Kobe became burnt toast, but it could become a very good pick if it conveys next season or very mediocre if the Lakers rebound in the standings over the next two years. This year it's top 3 protected.

The Sixers didn't think much of MCW apparently, but they did nothing to replace him as a PG and they've suffered accordingly. It's not just a tank year, but a year lost developing talent. As for Okafor, picking a 3rd center didn't make a lot of sense even if he was a consensus safe pick. There were other good talent on the board and they would have far been better served by Porzingus who was a hot item at the time. Okafor's been offensively worse than I expected too, but I didn't have high expectations for him overall after seeing him in college. His defensive reactions looked really slow and it's not surprising that it's worse in the NBA. He'll be in the league a long time, but he's looking a lot like Al Jefferson. A nice player, but no all-star.

[tazzmaniac]

unbelievable

In terms of the Sixers, it certainly is going to be difficult to reconcile your opinion to the rankings. I think it's fair to say that the Sixers are very difficult to measure even though you invariably seem to think the best of them.

The statistical problem with Okafor is that he's has the 2nd worst Real +/- among centers only to Bargnani and the numbers are bad on both sides of the ball. I think his currently poor Offensive Real +/- will improve dramatically as Colangelo beefs up the team and gets a real PG, but IMO his Defensive Real +/- won't.

Noel has a much better overall RPM and is 3rd among PFs in Defensive Real +/-. Unfortunately, his offensive deficiencies almost offset his defensive abilities. He would be better off at center with a real PG, but that is another byproduct of the Hinkie fiasco. Both players, as well as Embiid, need a real PG, competent team mates, and time to re-establish their value. If the Sixers are to get rid of one of the centers soon it should be Okafor as Noel has more upside.

Pelton cannot value players who have not played a minute in the NBA like Embiid or Saric. Otherwise, Covington is a tremendous value for the Sixers, but if that is Hinkie's best move, it isn't very good.

As for your whipping boy Smart, he has the 6th best Defensive Real +/- and 19th best overall Real +/- among point guards. He's younger than all the PGs ahead of him and by an average of 5 years. He is a lot better than you give him credit for, but so is the rest of the team.

Well said.

I absolutely agree that Noel is more valuable right now than Okafor.  There is ALWAYS value in an athletic seven footer with elite defensive talents - teams are always going to fight over players like that, even if they are very offensively limited (e.g. DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler in his prime, Omer Asik).

However, big men who can't do much beyond score in the post have very little perceived value in this league right now.  If Okafor had a dependable midrange jumper, or if he was a really good rebounder, or if he was a very skilled passer, or if he was a beast at drawing fouls...then that value would be higher.  Right now though he is incredibly limited, and beyond his low post scoring ability (which is certainly impressive) there is not really much to get excited about.  Even his reasonably impressive scoring numbers don't hold much weight, given they are exhagerated by the fact that he plays on such a terrible team.

Given how close people had Towns and Okafor in the draft, I'm really quite astounded that the two have proven to be so far apart in terms of talent.

Based on draft scouting reports, etc, I expected Okafor to be much more effective on offense (I expected he'd at least have a respectable jumper, and that he'd have solid passing ability from the post) and while I didn't expect his defense to be good, I didn't expect it to be Enes Kanter bad either.  Huge dissapointment, and the attitude problems only reduce his value further.

Gambling on Embiid was an easy call to make and most GM's would have done the same, but it has cost the Sixers in a huge, huge way. 

That said, I think the stupidest move they have made this whole time was trading Michael Carter Williams for a Lakers pick that they (IIRC) never even got.  MCW has his flaws, but he was a Rookie of the Year at the time and has developed into a pretty solid point guard...and right now the Sixers are absolutely desperate for a half decent PG.

Philly could have brought in Saric at PF (as a stretch four) and started him along with Noel an MCW. They could have then moved Okafor on draft day, when his value was highest, for a borderline all-star SG/SF (or could have used their pick on Muiday/Winslow) and they would have had had a REALLY nice core to build around.  MCW would have been great because he has the versatility to play either guard position, so it would have given Philly more flexibility when adding future talent. Then on top of all that, they still would have had Embiid as a wildcard. 

I didn't get the MCW deal at the time - when I heard it I though it was one of the dumbest trades ever.  Looking back at it now, it seems even stupider then it did then.

The Sixers will get the Lakers pick eventually, but it could be as long as 4 drafts after the fact. The pick looked worse at the time of the trade before Kobe became burnt toast, but it could become a very good pick if it conveys next season or very mediocre if the Lakers rebound in the standings over the next two years. This year it's top 3 protected.

The Sixers didn't think much of MCW apparently, but they did nothing to replace him as a PG and they've suffered accordingly. It's not just a tank year, but a year lost developing talent. As for Okafor, picking a 3rd center didn't make a lot of sense even if he was a consensus safe pick. There were other good talent on the board and they would have far been better served by Porzingus who was a hot item at the time. Okafor's been offensively worse than I expected too, but I didn't have high expectations for him overall after seeing him in college. His defensive reactions looked really slow and it's not surprising that it's worse in the NBA. He'll be in the league a long time, but he's looking a lot like Al Jefferson. A nice player, but no all-star.

Last season, Noel said Ish Smith was the best PG that he had ever played with.  Noel's offense numbers last season and this season are much better with Smith.  Okafor's numbers are also better with Smith.  Their assisted fg% have increased substantially.  Smith is a good developmental PG who doesn't hurt the Sixers tank much.