Poll

What is off the table if we trade for dwight ?

IT, smart , KO, Bradley , Crowder , Brk pick (all 3)
17 (42.5%)
IT, Smart , KO , Crowder  and brk picks(all 3)
12 (30%)
We must keep at least 2 brk picks , Smart and Crowder
9 (22.5%)
I will give them whatever they want
2 (5%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)  (Read 5675 times)

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Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2016, 06:54:30 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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I don't see the "not much" option. Certainly no real assets of value.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2016, 07:00:08 PM »

Offline Jon

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I wouldn't want to give up a huge package for him, but I'd consider something as much as Bradley, Olynyk, Lee or Johnson and a couple of firsts for him.  I'd even consider swapping out Crowder for Bradley (but probably then taking Olynyk out and replacing him with Jerbenko). 

I grant that's more than many would do.  But here's two no-so-obvious reasons to like a Dwight Howard trade.

1) He could be this decade's "Ray Allen."  No one like the Ray deal when it first happened, but lay the way for KG to get here.  There's zero chance Durant comes here this summer as things stand.  But what happens if we have a core of All Star Dwight Howard, All Star Isaiah Thomas (albeit only once), Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and a very high draft pick that could indeed be Ben Simmons?  All of the sudden the C's are in the conversation.  And if not with Durant, maybe someone else. 

2) This whole "Brad Stevens System" thing is a bunch of nonsense.  Yes, he's partly going with Jae Crowder at the 4 for "spacing," but he's largely doing it because putting Crowder at the 4 let's him play Marcus Smart (or Evan Turner) along with Bradley and Thomas and put his most talented players on the floor.  So don't think for a second that Stevens wouldn't welcome and find a way with someone of Howard's talent. 

It's the same nonsense that people say about Bill Bellichick.  They mistake a culture for a system.  BB most certainly has a Patriot way, but he's adapted his offense and his defense constantly to fit the talent.  We saw the spread it out offense of '07, followed by multiple TEs with Gronk/Hernadez, to even a shift to interesting things out of the backfield the past few years (including TEs back there).  Similarly we saw him go from a DB focused defense in 2014 to a front 7 based defense in 2015 and arguably make it better.  So if Stevens is truly the coach we believe he is, he should be able to adapt his system to the talent that's available. 

In summary, I agree that Howard has been a disappointment a lot of his career.  Still, largely single-handedly he gave the Big Three a run for their money every year.  And while he got a lot of knocks from Kobe, Kobe has pretty much feuded with every star he has ever played with including Kobe.  So maybe we should take that with a grain of salt.  And while I'd certainly prefer getting someone else, if Dwight can be add without giving up Smart, Thomas, any of the Brooklyn picks (and ideally Crowder), I'd strongly consider it. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 07:25:44 PM by Jon »

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2016, 07:21:39 PM »

Offline 2short

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No choice on poll for me.  I'd give up Lee, a protected first round pick and young.  That is it for a rental of a guy I think is bad jojoba.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2016, 07:27:24 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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HOU sends:  D12
HOU receives:  Lee, Sully, BOS #1, DAL #1

SAC sends:  DMC, Ben McLemore
SAC receives:  D12, Avery Bradley, 2016 BRK #1 (top-2 protected)

BOS sends:  Lee, Sully,Bradley, BOS #1, BRK #1, DAL #1
BOS receives:  DMC, Ben McLemore

Pipe dream.


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Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2016, 08:22:27 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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My response isn't in the list, but would be:

Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk, 2016 BRK pick and one other BRK pick.

Outside of that list, anything else I'd be pretty willing to throw out there. 

The 2018 Pick I'm pretty sure isn't going to be worth much once it comes around, so I'm only really high on the 2016 pick and the right to swap in 2017. 

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2016, 08:43:41 PM »

Offline acieEarl

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Honesty not much. Sully and our pick or the Dallas pick + a couple 2nd rounders. At this point in Howard's career I'm not sure he's that much better then Amir Johnson.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2016, 08:44:25 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Honesty not much. Sully and our pick or the Dallas pick + a couple 2nd rounders. At this point in Howard's career I'm not sure he's that much better then Amir Johnson.

Don't forget David Lee!

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2016, 09:06:55 PM »

Offline LilRip

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I would trade Bradley, Sully, Lee, any combination of Rozier/Young/Hunter/Mickey, a couple of non-lottery 1st rounders and an early 2nd rounder. I mean, what did the Magic get for Dwight? Granted, he's not begging to get out of Houston but at the same time, he wasn't the multiple DPOY he once was.
- LilRip

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2016, 09:20:09 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Honesty not much. Sully and our pick or the Dallas pick + a couple 2nd rounders. At this point in Howard's career I'm not sure he's that much better then Amir Johnson.

You guys are massively underrating Dwight right now.

Through most of his prime Dwight was playing 36 minutes per game and was averaging around 18/13 and 2.5 blocks while shooting around 60%.

Right now his Per 36 numbers are 16/13 with 1.7 blocks and he's shooting around 60%.

He's obviously not quite the dominant force he once was, but he's still probably 70% - 80% of the guy he was in his prime, and that's still enough to make him one of the leagues top centers.

Seriously, if you list the top Centers in the NBA you basically have (in no particular order) Deandre Jordan, Demarcus Cousins, Pau Gasol, Andre Drummond, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Tim Duncan, Karl Anthony Towns, Greg Monroe, Dwight Howard.

I'd say Cousins, Drummond and (maybe) Pau Gasol are probably the only guys on that that list that are clearly on a level above Dwight in his current state.  Every other guy on the list you could easily argue one way or the other. 

That makes Dwight Howard anywhere from top 4 to top 10 among centers, and even a top 10 center is worth a LOT more than Sully, a late first, and a few seconds.
 
The biggest concern is the player option - that lowers the trade value a lot because of the risk that Dwight walks and doesn't take up the option. That far reduces the willingness to give up core assets (e.g. Crowder, Smart, Bradley, Olynyk, 2016 Brooklyn pick) because if you lose those assets for nothing, it would really hurt the team.

However once you go beyond those core guys every other asset that remains is replaceable, so I'm not honestly all that fussed about taking the gamble. 

Even sacrificing future Nets picks is something I would consider if it brings us a a big step closer to being a contender. 

The Nets already have Thaddeus Young, Brook Lopez and RHJ - that's not enough to make them a decent team.  It is however enough to form a foundation for a decent team.  If the Nets get lucky in free agency and manage to add one or two of the following perimeter players (such as DeMar Derozan, Mike Conley, Nicholas Batum, Bradley Beal, Chandler Parsons, Harrison Barnes, Eric Gordon, Evan Fournier, Jordan Clarkson, Brandon Jennings, Aaron Afflalo) to that existing core, then they could very quickly become a borderline playoff team in the East.

Considering the fact that they have no picks of value, the Nets have every incentive to push to improve their win record, so I would expect them to be HARDCORE aggressive in free agency once Joe Johnson's contract expires, and it's not hard to imaging them picking up at least one of the guys in the list above.

For this reason, I actually feel that trading the 2018 Brooklyn pick ASAP is probably a very good move.  I think it's value right now is the highest it's ever going to be, so if you can get somebody of value back then do it, before Brooklyn becomes a fringe playoff team and the pick falls to the #15 - #18 and loses 90% of it's trade value.   

I feel the same way about the Boston 2017 pick (which we have rights to swap).  Again, I don't think Brooklyn are going to be nearly as bad next year as they are this year, but long as they are sitting bottom 5 in the standings that pick has substantial value...move it while you can.

The only pick that is off limits in my book would be the 2016 pick - that is pretty much completely untouchable until we know where it lands, unless we get a massive offer like Demarcus Cousins, which right now appears to be unlikely. 


Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2016, 05:56:59 AM »

Offline Greyman

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I didn't vote in the pole, all options gave away too much. I do agree though that many posts underrate Howard. Despite his age, injuries and other issues, he would give the team a great boost when on the court. There is a gamble involved and the upcoming free agency plays in the Celtic's favour.

As I said in another thread, I figure at least one of: Bradley, Crowder, Smart, KO or Brooklyn pick (2016) has to be included. We have so much other filler material you could put together as many possibilities as there are in the average Lotto draw.

Alternatively, dealer Danny gets away with - Sully, Turner, Zeller and a couple of lesser picks. Still a tidy package but not letting go any of the pieces you really want to keep.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2016, 06:56:01 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
HOU sends:  D12
HOU receives:  Lee, Sully, BOS #1, DAL #1

This too is the kind of offer I see happening.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2016, 07:27:04 AM »

Offline Clench123

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Any trade involding trading Crowder to get somone like Howard is a terrible deal,  a step backward.

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
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Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2016, 08:13:50 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote
HOU sends:  D12
HOU receives:  Lee, Sully, BOS #1, DAL #1

This too is the kind of offer I see happening.
I hope it's less simply because DH is not what he once was, he's not as skilled as Sully scoring around the basket (no idea why he never developed a good post game)  and I'd prefer to give only one of those first rounders while offering 2-3 seconds instead.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2016, 08:32:02 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Where is the none of the above option?

Lee, Sully, Dallas first and a future second.

They want any more than that and they can just keep him.

Re: What are you willing to give up for Dwight? (poll)
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2016, 08:55:30 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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If he was still a top player they would go out of heir way to retain him.
He is about 1/3,what he once was.

I wouldn't give up much for  a  sure rental .

Most nights Sully is far better skilled offensively