Teams are starting to smarten up to us?

[walker834]

Ainge will deal crap(IE david lee) and  picks to  teams that are desparate potentially.  The Gallinari deal is basically this.  He'll wait on teams that are going to lose a player for nothing where a draft pick is better than that.  Sullinger is basically Gallinari for us and Ainge inquired on Horford as a potential upgrade.  I don't think Horford is big enough an upgrade to give up on Sully though.  I think Blake should be the real target.  Someone in another thread said Blake won't be traded and Doc isn't big on change.  I think Doc just isn't stupid and would trade Blake for Durant right now. This would actually be a good trade for both teams, but whether it would happen is something else. If Ainge makes a deal, I think he's going to have to get creative this time.  People like to hate on Doc anyways and say he isn't big on change, but if you had Blake would you trade him?

There are teams in the NBA and just the nature of things where Ainge has been able to find the right deals but other teams aren't stupid either.

Not being big on change is a good thing anyways. It's about finding the right deals to improve your team.

War.  War never changes. I think Ainge might have to get creative this time though or just wait some more.

[walker834]

The deadline is two weeks away is what i'm saying. These trades are just teams posturing before the deadline in other words.  We inquired.  The deadline is still two weeks away.

[BornReady]

Ainge will deal crap(IE david lee) and  picks to  teams that are desparate potentially.  The Gallinari deal is basically this.  He'll wait on teams that are going to lose a player for nothing where a draft pick is better than that.  Sullinger is basically Gallinari for us and Ainge inquired on Horford as a potential upgrade.  I don't think Horford is big enough an upgrade to give up on Sully though.  I think Blake should be the real target.  Someone in another thread said Blake won't be traded and Doc isn't big on change.  I think Doc just isn't stupid and would trade Blake for Durant right now. This would actually be a good trade for both teams, but whether it would happen is something else. If Ainge makes a deal, I think he's going to have to get creative this time.  People like to hate on Doc anyways and say he isn't big on change, but if you had Blake would you trade him?

There are teams in the NBA and just the nature of things where Ainge has been able to find the right deals but other teams aren't stupid either.

Not being big on change is a good thing anyways. It's about finding the right deals to improve your team.

War.  War never changes. I think Ainge might have to get creative this time though or just wait some more.

I think doc trades Blake if he didnt fit or there was a player that he could get that was better than him like a durant or lebron
I think coaches in general dont like changes if everything is currently looking good for their team

if a trade occurred theyd need to make new plays for them and get them acclimated to the new system

we saw this with Doc when we traded Perkins for Kristic and Jeff Green
it was tough for doc to integrate the new pieces late in the season
when we would have been better keeping Perkins even though we needed desperately needed a backup SF for pierce

[walker834]

Writing this reminded me how when the NFL didn't even have free agency and there was no salary cap.  It's interesting how times have changed.  That would be seen a form of slavery nowadays where it wasn't even like that.  But players would hold out etc.  How quickly we forget though when in sports that was 25 years ago.  It was just different where teams stuck together through thick and thin and really built something.  I think that holds true today somewhat but it's different. 

When there is so much movement in sports it affects the integrity of the game on so many levels as well.  I was just writing about this with Dunn and us having the Nets pick  this year.   There are still a lot of dumb young teams out there.  Dunn as a player not sure where he is going to get drafted this year ,so it goes both ways where it affects players negatively as well when there is so much trading of picks.

Teams need to be smarter in general.  It's nice to have all these picks but we don't really need them all either.  There are some really messed up teams out there.

[walker834]

I guess what I'm saying is making trades is good but dynasties used to b e built by just drafting and building your own team.  It's different with free agency and the salary cap but you have to be somewhat careful.  All this movement affects teams and players in a lot of weird ways. You really have to look for the right deals. 

Ainge kind of sits on these trades and keeps gathering assets to make moves and gather more assets, picks etc but he has to build a team too.

[JSD]

Horford is a gigantic upgrade over Sully, OP. Gigantic.

[walker834]

He is an upgrade but i'm still  not sure if he is the guy worth giving up on sully for.  Horford is basically  what we would hope sully would be but sully is younger and we might not need that kind of player in Horford. Sully actually might be a better fit for us long term.  I don't think it's that gigantic.  I think it's debateable if Horford is really the guy we want to trade Sully for.

Sully is cheaper.  He's younger.  He's fatter.  He's our own player.

[walker834]

This is what Ainge does though is just sets the bar for what he's trying to do potentially.  I think he inquires on deals like this because he'd be stupid not to.

I think if Ainge trades Sully it will be for something bigger.  Maybe he will gamble a bit here on a guy like Horford, but it would be a bit of a questionable move imo by itself. I feel like we can do better.

[HomerSapien]

He is an upgrade but i'm still  not sure if he is the guy worth giving up on sully for.  Horford is basically  what we would hope sully would be but sully is younger and we might not need that kind of player in Horford. Sully actually might be a better fit for us long term.  I don't think it's that gigantic.  I think it's debateable if Horford is really the guy we want to trade Sully for.

Sully is cheaper.  He's younger.  He's fatter.  He's our own player.

This is what Ainge does though is just sets the bar for what he's trying to do potentially.  I think he inquires on deals like this because he'd be stupid not to.

As a restricted free agent in six months, how valuable will Sully actually be?  If we want him next year we are going to have to pay him $15M+ per season under the new cap.  Would you rather pay $15M for Sully or $20M for Horford (correct me if I'm underselling how much Horford will likely get)?  I'd much rather Horford.

What do you think a fair 1 for 1 trade is for Sully value-wise?

[Celtics4ever]

Sullinger is basically Gallinari for us and Ainge inquired on Horford as a potential upgrade.  I don't think Horford is big enough an upgrade to give up on Sully though.

Maybe other teams are smartening up.   It is a shame some posters would not do the same.

What the heck are you smoking?  Horford is a big upgrade.  Because:

Horford has 15PPG to Sully's  9.5 PPG
Horford shoots  50% FG   34 % 3P to Sully's 42% FG   26 % 3P
Sully does get 8.6 RPG to Horford's 7
Horford 1.5 BPG  to Sully's .7 BPG
Horford stays in shape and maintains a playing weight.

We don't have to give up on Sully, Jared did that long ago.  This guy cut his own throat but not watching what he ate, not staying in shape, etc.

Blake would be an even bigger upgrade, that is true.   But your acting as if Sully was all world, not just big as the world....  He is not.  We played really well when he was gone last year.  Replacing him Horford would help us immensely.

[walker834]

I hear you but at the same time Atlanta has the same record as us with Horford.  Some players statistically are a bit overrated as far as what they do within the team. Horford is an upgrade. He's a main cog on that team along with Teague. But we've maintained a similar record with Sully starting for us.

People overhyped David Lee too. He was supposedly going to be our best player because he shoots 50 percent and can average 20 and 10. On our team he isn't doing anything. He couldn't even beat out Tyler Zeller nevermind Sully.

I'm not smoking anything.  Just some players are not that big an upgrade as it seems. We need more scorers sure.  But it's a team game too and you need players to fill roles. I am not sold Horford is that guy for us.  I think Gallinari would fit just as well and be cheaper.

I debate this stuff all the time and I'm actually right that's the thing. This offseason people were hyping up Milwaulkee because they were statistical monsters on paper but look at that team it doesn't fit.  That team is a mess and back in the lottery. I'm not saying Horford is a bad move either.  I think Horford could fit here if we got something else and something bigger but it's still about making the right moves.

A lot of people don't get me sometimes.  But i'm usually right on this stuff. Trust me.  We resigned players like Bradley and hung onto guys like that this long for a reason too. I'm not saying Bradley and Sully won't be moved either. But people questioned Bradley for 9 mil and it's a bargain now.

Sully has some legitament questions. I'm not debating that. It may be time to move on but I would be careful.

[walker834]

Horford is a max potential player. He's probably better than a lot of free agents this summer.  He'd be a decent fit to go with someone else but I'm not sold he is that guy.  There are going to be other players worth that money.  For a one  year rental I don't know either. I don't think you necessarily make moves like that.  Ainge could take a chance here but I don't know.

If Horford was going to take less than the max to go with a couple other guys it may make sense but even still. What are we getting to go with him?

There are certain moves ainge makes that i don't like so he might do it.  He traded Big Baby for Brandon Bass. And didn't resign Tony Allen so he does make moves like that.  They usually don't work out optimally though.

People thought Bass was so much better than Baby because of statistics.  I still think Baby was much more important to a championship roster because he played well in spurts off the bench and did things that didnt show up in the stat sheet and just fit our team better. Bass was never that for us. That's roleplayers but it's  a similar kind of trade. Big baby wanted to start and didn't like playing off the bench but he was really good at it. He never was the same after either.

What this team really needs is a center like Marc Gasol to go with Sully and KO. We also need better wings. If we get a center that can really rebound like Horford and get Gallinari that might work though and get a superstar somewhere.

I'm not even sold Gallo is a better fit than what we could draft right now like Simmons or Bender.  I think he's a fit though because he might come cheaper.

Gallinari for Lee and a pick is a no brainer and that's why Ainge inquired.  I think Gallo is a player that could help us that we might have more interest than that though.

Horford to me is more what  a lot of people hoped David Lee would have been for us.  He's a gigantic upgrade over what Lee has been. I don't think he is a huge upgrade over Sully.  We could trade Sully for him though. I'm not sure I would do that as is with no plan to resign Horford or put the right pieces around him.

[walker834]

Atlanta has built around Horford and maybe we could do a better job of that but they have the same record as us is what I'm saying.  Do we want to build our team around a glorified David Lee? I'm not saying yes or no there.  I think that should be asked though. People think you just trade player A for B because they are a clear upgrade when they aren't necessarily.  Sully is our starting PF and we have the same record as Atlanta.  we don't have to build around Sully.  Horford we might not either but he's going to want to get paid and have a clear defined role with us where that probably involves building around him in some way.  Which means playing to his strengths. 

Red called Cousy a local yokel and then made him one of the best celtics of all time so it's possible.  But clear upgrade no.

Sullinger has had his share of criticism and could be really good too. I still really like Sullinger for some reason. I think Sully is more Cousy here than Horford here but that's me. I could be totally wrong.

[arctic 3.0]

Atlanta has built around Horford and maybe we could do a better job of that but they have the same record as us is what I'm saying.  Do we want to build our team around a glorified David Lee? I'm not saying yes or no there.  I think that should be asked though. People think you just trade player A for B because they are a clear upgrade when they aren't necessarily.  Sully is our starting PF and we have the same record as Atlanta.  we don't have to build around Sully.  Horford we might not either but he's going to want to get paid and have a clear defined role with us where that probably involves building around him in some way.  Which means playing to his strengths. 

Red called Cousy a local yokel and then made him one of the best celtics of all time so it's possible.  But clear upgrade no.

Sullinger has had his share of criticism and could be really good too. I still really like Sullinger for some reason. I think Sully is more Cousy here than Horford here but that's me. I could be totally wrong.

Horford is a max potential player. He's probably better than a lot of free agents this summer.  He'd be a decent fit to go with someone else but I'm not sold he is that guy.  There are going to be other players worth that money.  For a one  year rental I don't know either. I don't think you necessarily make moves like that.  Ainge could take a chance here but I don't know.

If Horford was going to take less than the max to go with a couple other guys it may make sense but even still. What are we getting to go with him?

There are certain moves ainge makes that i don't like so he might do it.  He traded Big Baby for Brandon Bass. And didn't resign Tony Allen so he does make moves like that.  They usually don't work out optimally though.

People thought Bass was so much better than Baby because of statistics.  I still think Baby was much more important to a championship roster because he played well in spurts off the bench and did things that didnt show up in the stat sheet and just fit our team better. Bass was never that for us. That's roleplayers but it's  a similar kind of trade. Big baby wanted to start and didn't like playing off the bench but he was really good at it. He never was the same after either.

What this team really needs is a center like Marc Gasol to go with Sully and KO. We also need better wings. If we get a center that can really rebound like Horford and get Gallinari that might work though and get a superstar somewhere.

I'm not even sold Gallo is a better fit than what we could draft right now like Simmons or Bender.  I think he's a fit though because he might come cheaper.

Gallinari for Lee and a pick is a no brainer and that's why Ainge inquired.  I think Gallo is a player that could help us that we might have more interest than that though.

Horford to me is more what  a lot of people hoped David Lee would have been for us.  He's a gigantic upgrade over what Lee has been. I don't think he is a huge upgrade over Sully.  We could trade Sully for him though. I'm not sure I would do that as is with no plan to resign Horford or put the right pieces around him.

I hear you but at the same time Atlanta has the same record as us with Horford.  Some players statistically are a bit overrated as far as what they do within the team. Horford is an upgrade. He's a main cog on that team along with Teague. But we've maintained a similar record with Sully starting for us.

People overhyped David Lee too. He was supposedly going to be our best player because he shoots 50 percent and can average 20 and 10. On our team he isn't doing anything. He couldn't even beat out Tyler Zeller nevermind Sully.

I'm not smoking anything.  Just some players are not that big an upgrade as it seems. We need more scorers sure.  But it's a team game too and you need players to fill roles. I am not sold Horford is that guy for us.  I think Gallinari would fit just as well and be cheaper.

I debate this stuff all the time and I'm actually right that's the thing. This offseason people were hyping up Milwaulkee because they were statistical monsters on paper but look at that team it doesn't fit.  That team is a mess and back in the lottery. I'm not saying Horford is a bad move either.  I think Horford could fit here if we got something else and something bigger but it's still about making the right moves.

A lot of people don't get me sometimes.  But i'm usually right on this stuff. Trust me.  We resigned players like Bradley and hung onto guys like that this long for a reason too. I'm not saying Bradley and Sully won't be moved either. But people questioned Bradley for 9 mil and it's a bargain now.

Sully has some legitament questions. I'm not debating that. It may be time to move on but I would be careful.

This is what Ainge does though is just sets the bar for what he's trying to do potentially.  I think he inquires on deals like this because he'd be stupid not to.

I think if Ainge trades Sully it will be for something bigger.  Maybe he will gamble a bit here on a guy like Horford, but it would be a bit of a questionable move imo by itself. I feel like we can do better.

He is an upgrade but i'm still  not sure if he is the guy worth giving up on sully for.  Horford is basically  what we would hope sully would be but sully is younger and we might not need that kind of player in Horford. Sully actually might be a better fit for us long term.  I don't think it's that gigantic.  I think it's debateable if Horford is really the guy we want to trade Sully for.

Sully is cheaper.  He's younger.  He's fatter.  He's our own player.

I guess what I'm saying is making trades is good but dynasties used to b e built by just drafting and building your own team.  It's different with free agency and the salary cap but you have to be somewhat careful.  All this movement affects teams and players in a lot of weird ways. You really have to look for the right deals. 

Ainge kind of sits on these trades and keeps gathering assets to make moves and gather more assets, picks etc but he has to build a team too.

Writing this reminded me how when the NFL didn't even have free agency and there was no salary cap.  It's interesting how times have changed.  That would be seen a form of slavery nowadays where it wasn't even like that.  But players would hold out etc.  How quickly we forget though when in sports that was 25 years ago.  It was just different where teams stuck together through thick and thin and really built something.  I think that holds true today somewhat but it's different. 

When there is so much movement in sports it affects the integrity of the game on so many levels as well.  I was just writing about this with Dunn and us having the Nets pick  this year.   There are still a lot of dumb young teams out there.  Dunn as a player not sure where he is going to get drafted this year ,so it goes both ways where it affects players negatively as well when there is so much trading of picks.

Teams need to be smarter in general.  It's nice to have all these picks but we don't really need them all either.  There are some really messed up teams out there.

The deadline is two weeks away is what i'm saying. These trades are just teams posturing before the deadline in other words.  We inquired.  The deadline is still two weeks away.

Ainge will deal crap(IE david lee) and  picks to  teams that are desparate potentially.  The Gallinari deal is basically this.  He'll wait on teams that are going to lose a player for nothing where a draft pick is better than that.  Sullinger is basically Gallinari for us and Ainge inquired on Horford as a potential upgrade.  I don't think Horford is big enough an upgrade to give up on Sully though.  I think Blake should be the real target.  Someone in another thread said Blake won't be traded and Doc isn't big on change.  I think Doc just isn't stupid and would trade Blake for Durant right now. This would actually be a good trade for both teams, but whether it would happen is something else. If Ainge makes a deal, I think he's going to have to get creative this time.  People like to hate on Doc anyways and say he isn't big on change, but if you had Blake would you trade him?

There are teams in the NBA and just the nature of things where Ainge has been able to find the right deals but other teams aren't stupid either.

Not being big on change is a good thing anyways. It's about finding the right deals to improve your team.

War.  War never changes. I think Ainge might have to get creative this time though or just wait some more.

Ainge will deal crap(IE david lee) and  picks to  teams that are desparate potentially.  The Gallinari deal is basically this.  He'll wait on teams that are going to lose a player for nothing where a draft pick is better than that.  Sullinger is basically Gallinari for us and Ainge inquired on Horford as a potential upgrade.  I don't think Horford is big enough an upgrade to give up on Sully though.  I think Blake should be the real target.  Someone in another thread said Blake won't be traded and Doc isn't big on change.  I think Doc just isn't stupid and would trade Blake for Durant right now. This would actually be a good trade for both teams, but whether it would happen is something else. If Ainge makes a deal, I think he's going to have to get creative this time.  People like to hate on Doc anyways and say he isn't big on change, but if you had Blake would you trade him?

There are teams in the NBA and just the nature of things where Ainge has been able to find the right deals but other teams aren't stupid either.

Not being big on change is a good thing anyways. It's about finding the right deals to improve your team.

War.  War never changes. I think Ainge might have to get creative this time though or just wait some more.

That's one way to keep a thread alive

[walker834]

To me Ainge is in a bit a bit of conundrum here because he decided to jumpstart the rebuilding process.  Pierce and KG were aging and Rondo didn't fit as our pg anymore. He could have let them retire here but in order to jumpstart the process which was necessary he traded them.  He picked up Isaiah with one of the picks he got.  He got Crowder here.  I personally think we are set at PG and PF with Smart and Isaiah and KO and Sully.  Bradley is a core piece too because of his leadership. We also have some good young players in MIckey and rozier etc.  Crowder was a really good return plus we have all these picks. I don't think we even need all these picks. In doing so Ainge really took advatnage of some really dumb  GM's and really stockpiled our assets.  We are  a top 3 team in the East as it stands and getting better and have a ton of picks. Zeller is a nice piece as well. Amir was a good signing too. If I'm Ainge I'd look to upgrade the center spot and our wings. Maybe I'm wrong abut Sully and Ainge will make a splash at PF or somewhere but we are pretty loaded where Ainge can do whatever the heck he wants.  Every trade we make where we are giving up something of value though it's not like we are giving away nothing though.  Sully is still a very good young player. He has some concerns. He could still be a very good player for us though. 

There isn't a whole lot of crap on this team outside of David Lee though.  He is basically just that left over contract of Gerald Wallace from the Piece and KG deals and its expiring this offseason.  It's an upgrade over Wallace.  If Ainge can turn that into Gallinari he'd do that for sure.  There is no other trade that is a clear yes right now.

We are loaded with players and picks though.  He has to make it all work within cap restraints and find the right fits.  But we are beyond loaded compared to most teams.

That doesn't mean I'm smoking anything.  It's just the reality of it. Ainge can sit there and say lets inquire on Dwight Howard and Horford sucks.  Or lets get both or whatever.  He can basically pick and choose what he wants as long as it fits under cap restraints.  It's more about finding the right combination. The media is going to do that too.  There isn't a good player in the league Ainge won't inquire on. Whether a deal is made is something else.