The trade deadline and the standings

[danglertx]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

This was the roster in 2013:

Joel Anthony   C
Chris Babb    SG   
Brandon Bass   PF
Jerryd Bayless   PG
Vander Blue   SG
Keith Bogans   SG
Avery Bradley   PG
MarShon Brooks   SG   
Jordan Crawford   SG   
Vitor Faverani   C   
Jeff Green     SF   
Kris Humphries   PF
Chris Johnson   SF   
Courtney Lee   SG   
Kelly Olynyk   C   
Phil Pressey   PG   
Rajon Rondo   PG   
Jared Sullinger   PF   
Gerald Wallace   SF

Is it sad that I don't miss a single guy off that roster who left?   Green and Lee have had some run and of course Rondo is still getting assists for Sactown but I don't miss any of them.  I guess Bass is playing for LA, but I don't miss him at all either.  Other than that, that roster is complete garbage.

[oldtype]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

If "rebuild" means "get back to competing for a playoff spot," then yes, by all means.

My criteria is a little more stringent though.  I won't consider the team "rebuilt" until they're relevant in any discussion of the post-season.  Which, to me, means that, though they might not be considered an actual contender, they are regarded as a team with a chance of knocking off a contender, i.e. the sort of team a contender would not like to face on their way to the Finals (example would be the Grizzlies of the last few years, the Pacers a couple years back, and those Chicago teams that unfortunately could never stay healthy).

When they do finally reach that point, I'll only be truly satisfied with it if there seems to be a plausible avenue for taking yet another step toward genuine contention, and sustaining that level of success for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I have high standards.  I'm OK with that.

I think the Celts are still a great distance from being "rebuilt," given all of that.  It's a scrappy team that's been up and down due to deficiencies in talent and size, but they're well coached and deep.  Nevertheless, I don't think they have a prayer in the post-season.  This team is not built for playoff basketball. 

All of which is fine.  This rebuild only just began a couple years ago.


Anyway, I think this will be a quiet deadline, and the names most likely to move -- Ryan Anderson and Markieff Morris top the list for me -- don't seem like they'd help the Celts all that much.

I agree and also share very high standards for this team. The Lakers are 1 title away from us and that is something we need to think about.

What bothers me are the people that think 2 championships in 30 years is pretty good. We are the Celtics and championships really only matter, especially since we have the most.

Absolutely!

There are 30 teams in this league. Almost half the league has never won a title yet.

2 championships in 30 years is pretty good by any reasonable standard. The fact that we won a million of them back when there were less than 10 teams in the league should not change this.

[PhoSita]

This was the roster in 2013:

Joel Anthony   C
Chris Babb    SG   
Brandon Bass   PF
Jerryd Bayless   PG
Vander Blue   SG
Keith Bogans   SG
Avery Bradley   PG
MarShon Brooks   SG   
Jordan Crawford   SG   
Vitor Faverani   C   
Jeff Green     SF   
Kris Humphries   PF
Chris Johnson   SF   
Courtney Lee   SG   
Kelly Olynyk   C   
Phil Pressey   PG   
Rajon Rondo   PG   
Jared Sullinger   PF   
Gerald Wallace   SF

Three players remain and probably two after Sullinger goes away. Sully was selected pre-Stevens while we still had Pierce and KG. He doesn't fit in. The rebuild is basically over. Now it's a matter of playing out the chips.

If this rebuild is basically over, then Ainge has failed.


How many players currently on the team will be here in two, three years?


Citing the fact that there has been a lot of roster turnover since the rebuild started -- shocker! -- is not proof that the rebuild is "basically over."

You've got a funny idea of what a "rebuild" is if you think all it involves is turning over most or all of the roster.

Philly's accomplished that much in the last few years.  Their rebuild done?

[PhoSita]

I like to start my own threads, so that I feel less obligated to engage with people who write a bit too much, condescend a bit too much, and who are primarily negative fans who one may wonder if they ever even lived in the Boston area.

. . . .

Some people on this forum think everyone else is here for them and expect us to read every word they post. No one is obligated to read one word of anyone. They can drop their comments. I don't own this thread. It doesn't mean I am obligated to let them dictate what I think and write.

I'm really enjoying the irony of you dropping a huge post dismissing people who disagree with you and throwing around a pretty haughty attitude while complaining about people doing ... pretty much exactly that.

This is a discussion forum.  I.e. you have to engage with people who won't always agree with you.

You've only been here a little while.  Maybe this isn't for you.

If you stick around, I think you'll find that having other people respond to what you say in a way you didn't anticipate, or don't like, is pretty much par for the course.  Get used to it or find another hobby.

[kozlodoev]

What bothers me are the people that think 2 championships in 30 years is pretty good. We are the Celtics and championships really only matter, especially since we have the most.

Guess what, it's not the 50s anymore and the NBA no longer consists of 8 teams.

[spikelovetheCelts]

I like to start my own threads, so that I feel less obligated to engage with people who write a bit too much, condescend a bit too much, and who are primarily negative fans who one may wonder if they ever even lived in the Boston area.

. . . .

Some people on this forum think everyone else is here for them and expect us to read every word they post. No one is obligated to read one word of anyone. They can drop their comments. I don't own this thread. It doesn't mean I am obligated to let them dictate what I think and write.

I'm really enjoying the irony of you dropping a huge post dismissing people who disagree with you and throwing around a pretty haughty attitude while complaining about people doing ... pretty much exactly that.

This is a discussion forum.  I.e. you have to engage with people who won't always agree with you.

You've only been here a little while.  Maybe this isn't for you.

If you stick around, I think you'll find that having other people respond to what you say in a way you didn't anticipate, or don't like, is pretty much par for the course.  Get used to it or find another hobby.

People come hear to get educated opinions about the Celtics. I come to find out new stuff and debate. I give TP to the best ideas i hear.  "Rebuild" means different things to different people.  The Celtics have be rebuilt from what the Big 3 team was that is what it means to me. "A new team of players with a chance to grow better?.  We are growing as a new team let see how it flies. IF DA can add to it he will if not we have plenty of picks and Money to try plan C, D and E. I am excited. I think we can play to Make the ECF this year.

[Eddie20]

What bothers me are the people that think 2 championships in 30 years is pretty good. We are the Celtics and championships really only matter, especially since we have the most.

Guess what, it's not the 50s anymore and the NBA no longer consists of 8 teams.

Please respect our future owner. He cares about the team, unlike Gaston.

[Alleyoopster]

Hibbert's name keeps popping up in this group as a possible trade acquisition. Is he a legitimate player any more? His plus-minus is off-the-chart dreadful this year. Why would he be a consideration?   

[ThePaintedArea]

Hibbert's name keeps popping up in this group as a possible trade acquisition. Is he a legitimate player any more? His plus-minus is off-the-chart dreadful this year. Why would he be a consideration?

Great question. And why did the door hit him on the way out of Indiana? What the hell happened?

[iadera]

Nominaly, he's a rim protector, but is it the rim that he protects today or is it something else (his health, for instance)?? Waaaay of the player he used to be...

[greg683x]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

I like to start my own threads, so that I feel less obligated to engage with people who write a bit too much, condescend a bit too much, and who are primarily negative fans who one may wonder if they ever even lived in the Boston area.

This was the roster in 2013:

Joel Anthony   C
Chris Babb    SG   
Brandon Bass   PF
Jerryd Bayless   PG
Vander Blue   SG
Keith Bogans   SG
Avery Bradley   PG
MarShon Brooks   SG   
Jordan Crawford   SG   
Vitor Faverani   C   
Jeff Green     SF   
Kris Humphries   PF
Chris Johnson   SF   
Courtney Lee   SG   
Kelly Olynyk   C   
Phil Pressey   PG   
Rajon Rondo   PG   
Jared Sullinger   PF   
Gerald Wallace   SF

Three players remain and probably two after Sullinger goes away. Sully was selected pre-Stevens while we still had Pierce and KG. He doesn't fit in. The rebuild is basically over. Now it's a matter of playing out the chips.

We had absolutely nothing going for us in Stevens' first year. It has taken a lot of little Ainge moves to get this team into a semblance of where it's headed.

Some people on this forum think everyone else is here for them and expect us to read every word they post. No one is obligated to read one word of anyone. They can drop their comments. I don't own this thread. It doesn't mean I am obligated to let them dictate what I think and write.

The heavy lifting has been done. A rebuild implies that something has been broken down and is being reconstructed. That's been done.

The main parts of the rebuild have been completed. We don't know what Ainge will do, but he will be dealing from this new position which is now neither a rebuild nor tanking. It is the playing of what cards we have. It only took two and a half years to reach this new level.

And I will also point out that many of these wordsmiths have been very focused on tanking, Philadelphia, treadmills, negativity towards our young players, and with a general know-it-all attitude that tends to be proven wrong time and time again.

This team has yet to land a legit star to turn this team into a contender. That is the main part, the hardest part, and the most time consuming part  of the rebuild and it has yet to be completed. Until this part is resolved no one can say we're almost done, or all the main parts are done.

[iadera]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

I like to start my own threads, so that I feel less obligated to engage with people who write a bit too much, condescend a bit too much, and who are primarily negative fans who one may wonder if they ever even lived in the Boston area.

This was the roster in 2013:

Joel Anthony   C
Chris Babb    SG   
Brandon Bass   PF
Jerryd Bayless   PG
Vander Blue   SG
Keith Bogans   SG
Avery Bradley   PG
MarShon Brooks   SG   
Jordan Crawford   SG   
Vitor Faverani   C   
Jeff Green     SF   
Kris Humphries   PF
Chris Johnson   SF   
Courtney Lee   SG   
Kelly Olynyk   C   
Phil Pressey   PG   
Rajon Rondo   PG   
Jared Sullinger   PF   
Gerald Wallace   SF

Three players remain and probably two after Sullinger goes away. Sully was selected pre-Stevens while we still had Pierce and KG. He doesn't fit in. The rebuild is basically over. Now it's a matter of playing out the chips.

We had absolutely nothing going for us in Stevens' first year. It has taken a lot of little Ainge moves to get this team into a semblance of where it's headed.

Some people on this forum think everyone else is here for them and expect us to read every word they post. No one is obligated to read one word of anyone. They can drop their comments. I don't own this thread. It doesn't mean I am obligated to let them dictate what I think and write.

The heavy lifting has been done. A rebuild implies that something has been broken down and is being reconstructed. That's been done.

The main parts of the rebuild have been completed. We don't know what Ainge will do, but he will be dealing from this new position which is now neither a rebuild nor tanking. It is the playing of what cards we have. It only took two and a half years to reach this new level.

And I will also point out that many of these wordsmiths have been very focused on tanking, Philadelphia, treadmills, negativity towards our young players, and with a general know-it-all attitude that tends to be proven wrong time and time again.

This team has yet to land a legit star to turn this team into a contender. That is the main part, the hardest part, and the most time consuming part  of the rebuild and it has yet to be completed. Until this part is resolved no one can say we're almost done, or all the main parts are done.

Yep. That's the biggest part. All these smaller moves are just preparation for the big one. But on the other hand, not all the rebuilding processes end by becoming a contender, yet they end. For example; Knicks! They landed Stoudemire, Anthony, Chandler and all the smaller parts, but never became a contender. Now they are facing their 2nd rebuild in a quite short time.

[Celtics4ever]

The main parts of the rebuild have been completed.

I do not concur with this opinion, we have an above average team at best.   There is still much work to be done for Ainge.

[Celtics17]

Any team that has not recently made very deep post season runs as well as won a title or two should be considered in the 'rebuild' category. After all, isn't that the goal? If just putting together a team that is competitive against most NBA squads is the main goal then I need to become a Lakers fan, arrgghh! This team is definitely still in a rebuild mold but it sure looks like DA has them on track.

[Moranis]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

If "rebuild" means "get back to competing for a playoff spot," then yes, by all means.

My criteria is a little more stringent though.  I won't consider the team "rebuilt" until they're relevant in any discussion of the post-season.  Which, to me, means that, though they might not be considered an actual contender, they are regarded as a team with a chance of knocking off a contender, i.e. the sort of team a contender would not like to face on their way to the Finals (example would be the Grizzlies of the last few years, the Pacers a couple years back, and those Chicago teams that unfortunately could never stay healthy).

When they do finally reach that point, I'll only be truly satisfied with it if there seems to be a plausible avenue for taking yet another step toward genuine contention, and sustaining that level of success for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I have high standards.  I'm OK with that.

I think the Celts are still a great distance from being "rebuilt," given all of that.  It's a scrappy team that's been up and down due to deficiencies in talent and size, but they're well coached and deep.  Nevertheless, I don't think they have a prayer in the post-season.  This team is not built for playoff basketball. 

All of which is fine.  This rebuild only just began a couple years ago.


Anyway, I think this will be a quiet deadline, and the names most likely to move -- Ryan Anderson and Markieff Morris top the list for me -- don't seem like they'd help the Celts all that much.

I don't think anyone thinks of this team as "rebuilt" Pho. It's certainly still re-building. Some of the players we have now won't be here when were a contender again. Some of them will, IMO. I think Danny Ainge would agree with you. We're not "rebuilt" until we have a team that is capable of winning a title.

That said, in year three of our rebuild, were the 5th youngest team in the entire NBA and were already an almost certain playoff team, one that could very well be a top 4 or 5 seed by the time it's all said and done. That's pretty dang good. Were obviously not done yet. But our young guys have showed some major improvement, and it's quite possible for us to go from a high lottery team, to a .500ish fringe playoff team, to a 45-49 win 4 or 5 seed in just three years (which shows marked continued improvement) while also having an almost guaranteed top 5 pick, with an excellent chance at the top pick.

You guys aren't the only people who have high expectations for the Celtics. But if your at all reasonable, you can see that this rebuild is going just about as well as we could possibly imagine. Just think about this: As of right now, it's very possible if not likely, that we ride a clearly improving team, one of the youngest teams in the NBA to a playoff run while we also receive one of the highest lottery picks in the draft (And a very good chance at one of Simmons/Ingram). In the 3rd year of our rebuild! Is that not more than you could've hoped for the day we traded Pierce and KG?

Boston is only 2.5 games from being out of the playoffs and almost just as easily could end up out of the playoffs as in it.  Heck Boston is only 5.5 games from a bottom three record in the East (that is also the distance from the 2 seed).

The East is a jumbled mess outside of Cleveland at the top and Philly and Brooklyn at the bottom.  Trying to predict any sort of finish is silly, especially with the trade deadline looming.