KG vs. Dirk

[Celtic Fan Forever]

Sorry guys, another post related to the ESPN top positional rankings.. how do these guys still have jobs??

Anyway I can go off about how Gasol shouldn't be on this list and definitely shouldn't be higher than Rodman.. or how Dirk is in no way better than Sir Charles.

But the one that stood out at me the most is Dirk (third) over KG (fifth).

My two cents:

Even before KG was a Celtic, I always had him above Dirk. Now, the accolades are similar, both have an MVP and a championship ring, and both have lost in the finals. KG has a DPOY award which Dirk never could have dreamed of.

They way I look at it, Dirk is clearly the better shooter and scorer. He led a very good veteran Dallas team to a championship (J Kidd, Terry, Marion, Chandler). But when it comes to aspects such as passing, defense (post and perimeter), rebounding, and leadership/intensity, KG wins by a landslide. Taking off my green tinted glasses as best as I can, I gotta put KG over Dirk..

Not to mention, look at the teams KG played with in Minnesota that went way further than they should've gone.. In a year where prime KG was averaging 24.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, and 5.0 apg with 1.5 spg and 2.2 bpg (are you kidding me), he took a pretty crummy Minnesota team to the conference finals. Dirk never carried a team like that.

Thoughts?

P.S. I might lose it when they unveil their center rankings depending on where Russell is.

Link for those who want it http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPFs/ranking-greatest-power-forwards-nba-history

[Surferdad]

Yup.  Dirk has the edge on offense and KG has the edge on defense  (well, more than an edge more like a football field).

Dirk is the #7 all-time #7 and that will always get the greater attention, just a fact of life.

[jambr380]

The comparison used to be between Duncan and KG, but then Duncan kept winning championships and people pretty much relinquished the crown to Duncan. But I really never thought there was an argument between KG and Dirk. I mean Dirk has been fantastic throughout his career, but KG had that aura about him that made him special. Both of them have longevity so it's not like the Bird / Lebron debate.

Just ESPN being ESPN, I guess.

[PhoSita]

KG's knee injury really robbed him of having the kind of career twilight that Duncan and Dirk have enjoyed.

Dirk is putting up 17-7 at age 37.  That's nuts.

I think Dirk gets the nod because he's been the #1 scoring option for his team basically for 16 years, and his shooting has remained phenomenal throughout.  The Mavs have been a winning team for the vast majority of his time in Dallas, too, and that counts for something.  Plus Dirk has led them on so many playoff runs.

KG's defensive excellence and overall dominance at his height counts for a lot, but he didn't spend much of his career as "the man" in quite the same way that Dirk has.  Dirk is probably the most versatile scorer at his size that the league has ever seen.


Basically, you've got Dirk, who is a career 22 point, 8 rebound guy who has career percentages of 47.5 / 38.3 / 87.9.   Plus his playoff averages are 25 and 10.

On the other hand, KG, a career 18 point 10 rebound guy, on career percentages of 49.7 / 27.5 / 79.0.  His career averages are about the same as regular season.

Both guys have played a really long time and won a championship and a MVP.  Dirk got Finals MVP, though, while KG has a DPOY.

[Moranis]

I think KG should be ahead of him, but Dirk wasn't a one and done player like KG was for the vast majority of his time in Minnesota (plus Dirk didn't miss the playoffs for 4 straight years).

[PhoSita]

I think KG should be ahead of him, but Dirk wasn't a one and done player like KG was for the vast majority of his time in Minnesota (plus Dirk didn't miss the playoffs for 4 straight years).

I really think it should count for something, too, that Dirk has been the main man on his team basically his whole career.  He's never had somebody else on the team who can take turns being the focal point, despite Marc Cuban's efforts.

KG has been able to function as a complementary player, at least on offense, for the latter half of his career.  When he was the main guy in Minnesota, as you note, they didn't have a ton of success.

KG's had a fantastic career, but I think Dirk is solidly ahead.

[D Dub]

Not to mention, look at the teams KG played with in Minnesota that went way further than they should've gone.. In a year where prime KG was averaging 24.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, and 5.0 apg with 1.5 spg and 2.2 bpg (are you kidding me), he took a pretty crummy Minnesota team to the conference finals. Dirk never carried a team like that.

Thoughts?

That was the only year KG had any kind of playoff success in Minny.  Up to that point, he'd won a grand total of 7 playoff games over 7 seasons. 

Dirk, on the other hand, has lead largely average Mavs team's to the playoffs every season going back to 2000.  He was also the best player on the planet the year they won the Finals.

The way I see it, Dirk's longevity has been greater and his absolute peak was a bit higher.   

[KGs Knee]

Unfortunately it appears KG's legacy is going to be negatively impacted by something he couldn't control, playing for an inept franchise. That stinks, because there is no way Dirk is better than KG. Who would honestly go back and draft Dirk ahead of KG?

Injuries robbed KG of the longevity that Duncan and Dirk have had, but at his peak, KG was better than both. You have to concede to Duncan for what he has accomplished, but Dirk has not accomplished more.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, I'd like to see Dirk take Minny to the WCF's with the team that KG had (Minny lost to LA in 6 games).

Plus, I'd give Dirk the nod shooting-wise, but KG chose NOT to score many times. He'd rather lock someone up defensively.

His stats during the 2000-2005 seasons in Minny were just incredible.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

He's had SO MANY game-saving DEFENSIVE plays, but you'll never see that on Hollywood - errr - ESPN.

Not knocking Dirk, but I'll take KG over him.

[KGs Knee]

Well, I'd like to see Dirk take Minny to the WCF's with the team that KG had (Minny lost to LA in 6 games).

Heck, I'd like to see Dirk take any of those Minny teams to the playoffs for as many years as KG did. I doubt he does, at least not as frequently.

KG never had anybody as good as Nash or Finley while he was in Minnesota.

[GreenFaith1819]

I guess the flip side of my Dirk - Minny comparison would be:

Could KG replicate Dirk's DAL success vs CLE in the Finals 2010-11?

I can almost hear Coach Carlylse yelling at KG "SCORE the ball, KG...we NEED points".....

Scoring is something you NEVER had to tell Dirk to do.

To KG's credit - he did whatever his Minny teams needed...learning every position. I believe that he even played PG in the playoffs for Minny as well.

Two GREAT PF's. My Green-Tinted Glasses and preference for Defense will always take KG over Dirk, though.

[PhoSita]

Unfortunately it appears KG's legacy is going to be negatively impacted by something he couldn't control, playing for an inept franchise. That stinks, because there is no way Dirk is better than KG. Who would honestly go back and draft Dirk ahead of KG?

Injuries robbed KG of the longevity that Duncan and Dirk have had, but at his peak, KG was better than both. You have to concede to Duncan for what he has accomplished, but Dirk has not accomplished more.

Drafting Dirk gives you more shots at a title.

[makaveli]

Duncan>Dirk>KG
forget about the rings, just look at the way they are playing right now. IMHO Dirk and Duncan are about equal, but Timmy does have 5 rings so he wins that argument easily.
KG deteriorated so quickly after that knee injury. Dirk probably the greatest all around scorer as a PF.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm biased, of course, but I'll take KG. I'll even throw out a few numbers to support my position:

Career points (ave.): Dirk 22.1, KG 17.9

Career rebounds (ave.): Dirk 7.9, KG 10.1

Career assists (ave.): Dirk 2.6, KG 3.7

Career blocks (ave.): Dirk .9, KG 1.4

Career steals (ave.): Dirk .8, KG 1.3

Dirk has maintained a high level of play for more seasons than KG, and scored more, but KG was a better rebounder, passer, and—especially—a better defensive player. Not to mention that KG hasn't been a clear-cut No. 1 offensive player since he was traded from Minny to Boston, whereas Dirk has always been the Mavs' go-to guy during his tenure. And Dirk hasn't had major injury issues.

No offense to Dirk, he's a great player, but I'd take prime KG over prime Dirk any day of the week.

[TheFlex]

KG. Few were as dominant as KG in their prime and KG was still really good for a long time, so Dirk's longevity doesn't move the needle for me.