Have our prayers already been answered?!?!?

[__ramonezy__]

Since the start of the CBS era we've all been lobbying to consolidate our draft picks and go after that "super star" player to become a true contender again and bring back the glory days of the Big 3... whether its Love or Cousins or Gallinari.

But to be honest when I watch our games - even the losses, it really doesn't feel like we're missing a star-caliber player (like it does when you watch the Nuggets, Charlotte or Orlando). IT is playing at an all-star level and the emergence of Crowder (to the point where he's being recognized by the wider basketball community) feels as if our go-to potential is already on this team.

It's funny that even with the level of praise we give CBS, we still doubt his ability to "develop" talent. All of our focus has been on the development of Young or the rookies, but IT and Crowder's development this year has also been amazing!!! (even though their efficiency could be a bit better) KO is getting stronger on defense and more aggressive on offense, Bradley's shot has shown marked improvement. 

At this point what I feel we're missing are three pieces:

• a "Whiteside" - a dominant, athletic shot blocker that can lock down the paint, play above the rim and finish lobs on PnR...
• a "Redick" - a cold-blooded sniper that can come off screens and hit daggers from all over the court.
• a "Stockton" - floor general to get the other pieces in place with a decent enough shot to keep defenders honest

And despite the public opinion I don't think these pieces need to be top-tier either. We don't have to package 40 acres and a mule to fill these gaps either... heck Mickey could already be our "Whiteside".

What do y'all think? What prototype players do you feel is missing from the team and which current draft prospect or NBA player could fill that gap?

[Celtics18]

No joke.

If we can go on a winning streak and Crowder and Thomas keep playing the way they have been, they are both all star candidates.

Those are our two stars.  I'll take it for now.

[Future Celtics Owner]

We need a legit center that can hit ft's, shoot deep, and block shots.....basically Kristaps/Towns/or even Myles Turner. Whiteside would be bad for this team because he does not pass and can't hit ft's like the other guys I listed.

Also IT and Crowder are def doing great but it is easier to score on an equal opportunity team and I think we know what happens in the playoffs.

[obnoxiousmime]

Yes, but stars are what take a good team into the great level. It's possible to have a a very good team where there are no weak links like the Hawks and do very well until the playoffs come along.

Also, at some point you need to pay the players on your team fair market value. We were fortunate to sign Crowder long-term on a cheap deal, but what happens when the other players we have now deserve a raise and eat up space that could be going to the other pieces we need? The benefit of having a superstar is that they provide elite production while being limited to a max deal, as opposed to the second-tier stars providing good-but-less-than-elite production on a max deal.

To use one of your examples, Whiteside is definitely going to get max money this summer from somebody. You can only fit so many max players on your team. If he's paid like one of your best players but is only producing like a really good role player, you have to make up for it somewhere else on the roster.

Yes, you can go over the cap to re-sign your own players, but it's not feasible to go too far over for too many years because of the luxury tax penalties.

I don't think you've been watching the same losses. Even most of the optimists on this board agree that we need an offensive player who can clinch the end of close games for us. That is one of the main job requirements of a star player.

[PhoSita]

I really like both Thomas and Crowder.

But no, they aren't the answer.

If you put a couple of perennial All-Star type talents in the starting lineup next to those guys, then heck yeah, that's a formidable group.

Crowder and IT are nice players, and I've been really impressed by what they've done so far this year.  That said, they aren't dominant players.  I don't think either has what it takes to be the best player in a playoff series.  That's what you need if you want to get somewhere in this league.


So whether they stay here, or are traded for that kind of player, I think IT and Crowder are part of the solution.  They're just not "the" solution.

[LilRip]

Our prayers have not been answered. We're a pretty good team but we're not a great team or a contender. We still need that superstar to launch us into that strata.

IT4 is really good, but I can't see a contending team that features him as its best player. Now, if IT4 was our 2nd best player (say we had a young Paul Pierce or something), then I think we have a chance against a team like the Cavs in a playoff series.

[pearljammer10]

I love IT and Crowder but they aren't, and never will be, superstars. They are great complimentary pieces on a good team. We need a star, a shot blocker, and I'd even argue a true point guard to run the offense. I'd love to see a Tyreke Evans type body playing alongside IT. A big guard that can guard opposin 2s while quarterbacking the offense. Love IT but I don't think he is a great leader at the PG spot.

[GreenWarrior]

At this point what I feel we're missing are three pieces:

• a "Whiteside" - a dominant, athletic shot blocker that can lock down the paint, play above the rim and finish lobs on PnR...
• a "Redick" - a cold-blooded sniper that can come off screens and hit daggers from all over the court.
• a "Stockton" - floor general to get the other pieces in place with a decent enough shot to keep defenders honest

you're right, we need players like this too.

but if IT and Crowder are your best players get ready for the disappointment.

[__ramonezy__]

The trajectory to stardom for late 1st or 2nd round picks is never a straight line. It's a matter of development, opportunity and team fit ala draymond green...  that probably wouldn't even crack say a clipper's rotation,  but he's unquestionably a star for the Warriors, move him and i doubt he's as effective. IT and Crowder can be stars of that ilk for us...  system stars.  Also Crowder could very well be on the same path as kawhii or jimmy butler...  both were defensive stoppers that developed offensively.

One other thing to point out about our team is that we struggle to defend dominant traditional big men... as a result its easier for us to beat a Hawks, Pacers or even warriors than it is to beat a Nets or Grizzlies. We simply can't defend the low post. Hence why i say we need a "whiteside"

[chambers]

I really like both Thomas and Crowder.

But no, they aren't the answer.

If you put a couple of perennial All-Star type talents in the starting lineup next to those guys, then heck yeah, that's a formidable group.

Crowder and IT are nice players, and I've been really impressed by what they've done so far this year.  That said, they aren't dominant players.  I don't think either has what it takes to be the best player in a playoff series.  That's what you need if you want to get somewhere in this league.


So whether they stay here, or are traded for that kind of player, I think IT and Crowder are part of the solution.  They're just not "the" solution.

Elite role players as Pho suggests.
IT is more than a role player, and could be the 3rd best player on a championship team, you'd just need your 2 best players to be top 10-15 guys.

7 game playoff series are an entirely different beast for our team of role players.
Grinding out the regular season with stamina and depth is great, but when the rotation is 7 or 8 guys in the playoffs, and 2 of those opponents are top 15 players, it becomes an entirely different strategy.

[slamtheking]

I love IT and Crowder but they aren't, and never will be, superstars. They are great complimentary pieces on a good team. We need a star, a shot blocker, and I'd even argue a true point guard to run the offense.  Love IT but I don't think he is a great leader at the PG spot.

This. 

been saying it since the start of the season and halfway through the season it's still true.

IT's done well with scoring but does not do much to get others involved on offense. He's also easy for other teams to pick on with their PGs on offense.   Crowder has been much better than expected but he's not the level of scorer we need from the wing to carry the team down the stretches of games.  Our center position needs upgrading as well.

we have a team of role players.  put 3-4 starting-caliber players on the team, we're looking at a top team in the East.  if able to add a couple of legit all-stars (no, IT isn't what I consider a legit all-star.  I'm referring to a player that's good enough to be selected year after year and offers their team an advantage at their position almost every game) instead, we're talking Finals possibilities.

[__ramonezy__]

I really like both Thomas and Crowder.

But no, they aren't the answer.

If you put a couple of perennial All-Star type talents in the starting lineup next to those guys, then heck yeah, that's a formidable group.

Crowder and IT are nice players, and I've been really impressed by what they've done so far this year.  That said, they aren't dominant players.  I don't think either has what it takes to be the best player in a playoff series.  That's what you need if you want to get somewhere in this league.


So whether they stay here, or are traded for that kind of player, I think IT and Crowder are part of the solution.  They're just not "the" solution.

Elite role players as Pho suggests.
IT is more than a role player, and could be the 3rd best player on a championship team, you'd just need your 2 best players to be top 10-15 guys.

7 game playoff series are an entirely different beast for our team of role players.
Grinding out the regular season with stamina and depth is great, but when the rotation is 7 or 8 guys in the playoffs, and 2 of those opponents are top 15 players, it becomes an entirely different strategy.

This is a way of thinking that became popular during the Big 3 era that we largely help create...  The way to win is to trade for 3 All-stars. Apart from us the only other team to succeed using this strategy  was Miami and both the Spurs  and Warriors stand in direct opposition to that chain of thought and have built more sustainable units through drafting talent that fits their system. The last championship run for the spurs arguably only had kawhii that was in the Top 50,  much less 15,  and they dismantled the Heat

[pearljammer10]

I really like both Thomas and Crowder.

But no, they aren't the answer.

If you put a couple of perennial All-Star type talents in the starting lineup next to those guys, then heck yeah, that's a formidable group.

Crowder and IT are nice players, and I've been really impressed by what they've done so far this year.  That said, they aren't dominant players.  I don't think either has what it takes to be the best player in a playoff series.  That's what you need if you want to get somewhere in this league.


So whether they stay here, or are traded for that kind of player, I think IT and Crowder are part of the solution.  They're just not "the" solution.

Elite role players as Pho suggests.
IT is more than a role player, and could be the 3rd best player on a championship team, you'd just need your 2 best players to be top 10-15 guys.

7 game playoff series are an entirely different beast for our team of role players.
Grinding out the regular season with stamina and depth is great, but when the rotation is 7 or 8 guys in the playoffs, and 2 of those opponents are top 15 players, it becomes an entirely different strategy.

This is a way of thinking that became popular during the Big 3 era that we largely help create...  The way to win is to trade for 3 All-stars. Apart from us the only other team to succeed using this strategy  was Miami and both the Spurs  and Warriors stand in direct opposition to that chain of thought and have built more sustainable units through drafting talent that fits their system. The last championship run for the spurs arguably only had kawhii that was in the Top 50,  much less 15,  and they dismantled the Heat

Tim Duncan is arguably the best power forward of all time. I'd still put him in my top 25 even at age 39. There no way he was not a Top 50 player during that last run versus the Heat.

Manu, Duncan, and Parker have formed a pretty legendary big three. They might not all be top 25 players now but as they built that system and are still intrical parts of it by far. Yes they've drafted and traded for talent that fits the system but those three guys also have a huge impact on how those extra pieces perform on the court.

[Moranis]

I really like both Thomas and Crowder.

But no, they aren't the answer.

If you put a couple of perennial All-Star type talents in the starting lineup next to those guys, then heck yeah, that's a formidable group.

Crowder and IT are nice players, and I've been really impressed by what they've done so far this year.  That said, they aren't dominant players.  I don't think either has what it takes to be the best player in a playoff series.  That's what you need if you want to get somewhere in this league.


So whether they stay here, or are traded for that kind of player, I think IT and Crowder are part of the solution.  They're just not "the" solution.

Elite role players as Pho suggests.
IT is more than a role player, and could be the 3rd best player on a championship team, you'd just need your 2 best players to be top 10-15 guys.

7 game playoff series are an entirely different beast for our team of role players.
Grinding out the regular season with stamina and depth is great, but when the rotation is 7 or 8 guys in the playoffs, and 2 of those opponents are top 15 players, it becomes an entirely different strategy.

This is a way of thinking that became popular during the Big 3 era that we largely help create...  The way to win is to trade for 3 All-stars. Apart from us the only other team to succeed using this strategy  was Miami and both the Spurs  and Warriors stand in direct opposition to that chain of thought and have built more sustainable units through drafting talent that fits their system. The last championship run for the spurs arguably only had kawhii that was in the Top 50,  much less 15,  and they dismantled the Heat

What are you talking about, pretty much every championship team in history had a big 3, and certainly a big 2 with a very strong supporting cast.  This isn't a new development at all.  Championship team have always had 2 or 3 top 25 players on their teams and most have had a top 5.  That is how you in fact win titles.  You have more talent than the teams you are playing.

[__ramonezy__]

I really like both Thomas and Crowder.

But no, they aren't the answer.

If you put a couple of perennial All-Star type talents in the starting lineup next to those guys, then heck yeah, that's a formidable group.

Crowder and IT are nice players, and I've been really impressed by what they've done so far this year.  That said, they aren't dominant players.  I don't think either has what it takes to be the best player in a playoff series.  That's what you need if you want to get somewhere in this league.


So whether they stay here, or are traded for that kind of player, I think IT and Crowder are part of the solution.  They're just not "the" solution.

Elite role players as Pho suggests.
IT is more than a role player, and could be the 3rd best player on a championship team, you'd just need your 2 best players to be top 10-15 guys.

7 game playoff series are an entirely different beast for our team of role players.
Grinding out the regular season with stamina and depth is great, but when the rotation is 7 or 8 guys in the playoffs, and 2 of those opponents are top 15 players, it becomes an entirely different strategy.

This is a way of thinking that became popular during the Big 3 era that we largely help create...  The way to win is to trade for 3 All-stars. Apart from us the only other team to succeed using this strategy  was Miami and both the Spurs  and Warriors stand in direct opposition to that chain of thought and have built more sustainable units through drafting talent that fits their system. The last championship run for the spurs arguably only had kawhii that was in the Top 50,  much less 15,  and they dismantled the Heat

What are you talking about, pretty much every championship team in history had a big 3, and certainly a big 2 with a very strong supporting cast.  This isn't a new development at all.  Championship team have always had 2 or 3 top 25 players on their teams and most have had a top 5.  That is how you in fact win titles.  You have more talent than the teams you are playing.

I agree with this 110%. What I'm against is this microwave championship strategy of trading for your big 3 as opposed to developing one.

Development has to be part of the mix...  We're stuck focusing on getting Love and DMC as opposed to finding talent and grooming them like what the spurs did with kawhii