Surprised to see who is ahead of C's?

[Csfan1984]

I know I am. Didn't see Pistons who lost Monroe, Pacers who still have little support for PG, and Magic who didn't add any vets all ahead of us. Really feel C's home record is killing us right now. If they won just 65% at home they would be ahead. How are they better than this team? I know Drummond and PG are stars so they could jump over but Magic? We also have the problem of Wiz, and Knicks behind us again teams with stars. Bucks are also a team that is slumping that could surge at any point. Other than Crowder C's haven't seen any improvement for its players.

[PhoSita]

All of the teams you mentioned have superior talent at the top of their roster, so it's not that surprising.

Stan Van Gundy is a good coach and Reggie Jackson - Andre Drummond is a combo that can win a fair number of regular season games so long as there's a little spacing around them.

Paul George and Frank Vogel, another All-Star / good coach pairing.

We've known for a few years now that the Magic were probably just a decent coach away from being competitive.  Skiles has them playing defense.

[apc]

Not surprising to me.
Pistons and Pacers already have what we miss the most, an all-star.
The Magic have been in rebuild mode longer than we have, with several lottery picks- not every rebuilding team is the Sixers.

[Kuberski33]

The Knicks will be passing us shortly.  They have 2 players who are better than anything we have on our roster.

[Lucky17]

Fully expect the Magic to fade as the season wears on.

Should be pointed out that Miami has enjoyed a home-heavy schedule (8 more games). I think they are due to flag a bit.

Indiana and Detroit have good chemistry right now. I'm not very surprised by either team.

Going to be a real dogfight for the last playoff berth, I think.

Edit: I am surprised to see Washington so low. I guess the loss of Beal is really hurting them? Or has Randy Wittman finally come down to earth?

[konkmv]

The knicks game will show a lot

[slamtheking]

I know I am. Didn't see Pistons who lost Monroe, Pacers who still have little support for PG, and Magic who didn't add any vets all ahead of us. Really feel C's home record is killing us right now. If they won just 65% at home they would be ahead. How are they better than this team? I know Drummond and PG are stars so they could jump over but Magic? We also have the problem of Wiz, and Knicks behind us again teams with stars. Bucks are also a team that is slumping that could surge at any point. Other than Crowder C's haven't seen any improvement for its players.

Not surprised at all.

called it before the season started that Indy would pass us this year as well as Miami.  Also said that Milwaukee would be better (no idea how they could be playing this badly with that much talent).

also mentioned that the entire East except Philly and Brooklyn would be better since they did one of the following that the C's didn't do:
1) add a solid FA
2) removed a player that hindered team progress
3) got a top player back from injury
4) added a top draft prospect and/or had top prospects that figured to develop faster or better than ours.

The only team that did one of those things that is not doing better than last year is Milwaukee.  C's will not slide into the playoffs this year without a lot of solid play where they beat all the teams they're better than and steal some wins against better teams while holding their own against equal teams. 

[Lucky17]

I know I am. Didn't see Pistons who lost Monroe, Pacers who still have little support for PG, and Magic who didn't add any vets all ahead of us. Really feel C's home record is killing us right now. If they won just 65% at home they would be ahead. How are they better than this team? I know Drummond and PG are stars so they could jump over but Magic? We also have the problem of Wiz, and Knicks behind us again teams with stars. Bucks are also a team that is slumping that could surge at any point. Other than Crowder C's haven't seen any improvement for its players.

Not surprised at all.

called it before the season started that Indy would pass us this year as well as Miami.  Also said that Milwaukee would be better (no idea how they could be playing this badly with that much talent).

also mentioned that the entire East except Philly and Brooklyn would be better since they did one of the following that the C's didn't do:
1) add a solid FA
2) removed a player that hindered team progress
3) got a top player back from injury
4) added a top draft prospect and/or had top prospects that figured to develop faster or better than ours.

The only team that did one of those things that is not doing better than last year is Milwaukee.  C's will not slide into the playoffs this year without a lot of solid play where they beat all the teams they're better than and steal some wins against better teams while holding their own against equal teams.

Jae Crowder was a pretty darn good FA signing.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Monroe is all stats and he was clogging up the paint for Drummond, who is a legitimate first team All-NBA player.  Plus they added Reggie Jackson and upgraded their coach. 

The Magic are a team of all high lottery picks and they are now starting to hit their potential. 

The only reason we made the playoffs last year was because Bosh and Paul George got injured.  If they were healthy, we'd have been in the lottery.  I think overall it was good that we made the playoffs, but I don't really put that much stock into it.

Frankly, we're overachieving right now, even though we're in the lottery.  The fact that we had a losing streak is to be expected, because we're an average team playing in a good conference.  Losing games isn't Stevens' fault, it's to his credit that anybody even expects them to win against most of these other teams.  We need a massive upgrade at the starting 4 and 5, plus probably an upgrade at the 3 to start to be genuinely competitive. 

There is no way a move like adding Monroe to our team will make us stand up to the Spurs or Golden State, let alone the Cavs, Thunder, Clippers or Raptors.  Those teams are all a lot better than us. 

[PhoSita]

Monroe is all stats and he was clogging up the paint for Drummond, who is a legitimate first team All-NBA player. 

I don't think this is really fair.

Monroe is a quality skilled post center.  Not as valuable a player as Drummond, but still very good, in my opinion.

The problem is that Monroe and Drummond played the same position.  It's similar to the dynamic going on with Noel and Okafor on the Sixers.

[PhoSita]

I am surprised to see Washington so low. I guess the loss of Beal is really hurting them? Or has Randy Wittman finally come down to earth?

Beal's injuries have hurt them.

Also, they've gotten very inconsistent play from their wings, Nene is pretty close to toast, and their other big men (Humphries, Blair, Gooden), can't play a lick of defense.

In general, Washington relies on far too many players who can't actually defend.

Also said that Milwaukee would be better (no idea how they could be playing this badly with that much talent).

Milwaukee has a really nice top 5, talent-wise:

MCW, Middleton, Giannis, Jabari, Monroe

They've struggled this year because of those 5 guys, only one of them can actually shoot right now.  So they're pretty much impossible to play at the same time. 

Aside from those guys, the Bucks are relying on Jerryd Bayless, OJ Mayo, Chris Copeland, and John Henson.  They traded for Greivis Vasquez in the off-season, but he's been out with an injury for most of the season.


If and when Jabari and Giannis become dangerous enough from outside that teams actually have to guard them, the Bucks will be a lot tougher to defend. 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Monroe is all stats and he was clogging up the paint for Drummond, who is a legitimate first team All-NBA player. 

I don't think this is really fair.

Monroe is a quality skilled post center.  Not as valuable a player as Drummond, but still very good, in my opinion.

The problem is that Monroe and Drummond played the same position.  It's similar to the dynamic going on with Noel and Okafor on the Sixers.

He gets a lot of stats and he loses a lot of games.  He only stays in the paint, he can't do anything against elite teams but he stat pads against bad teams, the Pistons gave him away for nothing, he joined a playoff team and they immediately tanked and the lottery team he left became a top 10 team, his defense is awful, he can't defend the perimeter  or the hoop to save his life, etc.  He is one of those players like Rudy Gay, Tyreke Evans, MCW, Ty Lawson, Brook Lopez or Evan Turner.  I just can't stand players who only exist to stat pad.  Win some games.

[Lucky17]

Monroe is all stats and he was clogging up the paint for Drummond, who is a legitimate first team All-NBA player. 

I don't think this is really fair.

Monroe is a quality skilled post center.  Not as valuable a player as Drummond, but still very good, in my opinion.

The problem is that Monroe and Drummond played the same position.  It's similar to the dynamic going on with Noel and Okafor on the Sixers.

He gets a lot of stats and he loses a lot of games.  He only stays in the paint, he can't do anything against elite teams but he stat pads against bad teams, the Pistons gave him away for nothing, he joined a playoff team and they immediately tanked and the lottery team he left became a top 10 team, his defense is awful, he can't defend the perimeter  or the hoop to save his life, etc.  He is one of those players like Rudy Gay, Tyreke Evans, MCW, Ty Lawson, Brook Lopez or Evan Turner.  I just can't stand players who only exist to stat pad.  Win some games.

You're blaming a center for not being able to defend the perimeter?

[Ilikesports17]

Monroe is all stats and he was clogging up the paint for Drummond, who is a legitimate first team All-NBA player. 

I don't think this is really fair.

Monroe is a quality skilled post center.  Not as valuable a player as Drummond, but still very good, in my opinion.

The problem is that Monroe and Drummond played the same position.  It's similar to the dynamic going on with Noel and Okafor on the Sixers.

He gets a lot of stats and he loses a lot of games.  He only stays in the paint, he can't do anything against elite teams but he stat pads against bad teams, the Pistons gave him away for nothing, he joined a playoff team and they immediately tanked and the lottery team he left became a top 10 team, his defense is awful, he can't defend the perimeter  or the hoop to save his life, etc.  He is one of those players like Rudy Gay, Tyreke Evans, MCW, Ty Lawson, Brook Lopez or Evan Turner.  I just can't stand players who only exist to stat pad.  Win some games.

Im not sure if thats a fair critique of Monroe. I think he is a good player who can definitely be a winner but his skillset requires a very specific system to play in.

Hes not a shot blocker and hes not quick enough to defend 4s especially as they have become quicker in the changing NBA. So on D he is a decent C who cant black shots. On offense he has a good handle for a big hes a nice passer, he drives pretty well and hes decent in the post. he cant shoot.

So in order to have a balance frontcourt your other big you play with him needs to be quick enough to defend 4s, and able to block shots. On offense he needs to be able to shoot the ball.

Mickey has this skillset but hes not ready yet. Taj Gibson and Draymond Green would be examples of guys who I think hed fit really well next too. Unfortunately Andre Drummond and Jabari Parker really dont fit well with him.

[PhoSita]

he joined a playoff team and they immediately tanked and the lottery team he left became a top 10 team

I don't think the causal links there are as strong as you think they are.

Also, pretty much all of the guys you mentioned have a place on a good team. The common thread in all cases I think is that they're talented enough offensively that teams try to install them as one of their main guys, but they aren't good enough on their own to carry a team. 

They aren't easy to just plug into a lineup and expect good results.  They need to be in the right situation -- namely a situation that allows them to play a large role in the offense, but not too large a role, while having teammates who can cover their weaknesses on defense.  But they aren't stars, so it doesn't always make sense to move everything around just to set them up for success.

I think there are very few players in the league who truly "exist to stat pad."  The one guy who really comes to mind for me is Nick Young.