Which team says no? (Pelicans trade idea)

[LarBrd33]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

RPM seems like a fun stat.  It shows Jae Crowder as the 23rd best player in the league, Jared Sullinger as the 36th best player in the league, Amir Johnson as the 41st best player in the league... yeah ok....   According to that stat, all those guys are better than Thomas... and Boston apparently has 5 guys in the top 50 (Kelly Olynyk as the 48th best player in the league).... neat.   

It does show Marcus Smart as the 313th best player in the league though... so there's that. 

FYI, last year Jrue Holiday (while playing injured) had a RPM of 3.22 (10th amongst point guard)... Thomas had a RPM of 1.45 (20th).    Holiday was better than him the year before as well. 

[LarBrd33]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

awful deal.  just awful.

IT is better than Jrue at this point in their careers.  I'm no fan of IT unlike most posters here but even I'll admit he's better than Jrue.

Sully is better than Ryan as well.  Ryan may be the better shooter but Sully is by far the better rebounder and passer.  He's also better scoring around the basket. 

Asik's deal is horrible.  no desire to take that on.  Lee and Jerebko are at least still serviceable.  not great but serviceable.

how you can even think the C's come out of this better by giving up their top scorer and rebounder for 3 guys that will produce less than who we're sending out is beyond me.

He's literally clueless half the time he posts. It's unfortunate because he can definitely make knowledgeable and logical posts and ideas. It's almost as if he chooses not to.

Lol. 

If I'm ahead of the curve on the Isaiah Thomas backlash, so be it.    Jrue Holiday, when healthy, is better.  I can't say I'm surprised that this is the reaction, though.   

[alldaboston]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

awful deal.  just awful.

IT is better than Jrue at this point in their careers.  I'm no fan of IT unlike most posters here but even I'll admit he's better than Jrue.

Sully is better than Ryan as well.  Ryan may be the better shooter but Sully is by far the better rebounder and passer.  He's also better scoring around the basket. 

Asik's deal is horrible.  no desire to take that on.  Lee and Jerebko are at least still serviceable.  not great but serviceable.

how you can even think the C's come out of this better by giving up their top scorer and rebounder for 3 guys that will produce less than who we're sending out is beyond me.

He's literally clueless half the time he posts. It's unfortunate because he can definitely make knowledgeable and logical posts and ideas. It's almost as if he chooses not to.

Lol. 

If I'm ahead of the curve on the Isaiah Thomas backlash, so be it.    Jrue Holiday, when healthy, is better.  I can't say I'm surprised that this is the reaction, though.

I'm down to have a reasonable discussion, but it seem you're not. All you do is say the same thing: healthy Holiday is better. And post a video. Why? Can you give us a reason why he's better than Thomas?

And if you say he's hurt, I'll immediately counter with "smart is hurt too, when he's healthy he's really good".

[LarBrd33]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

awful deal.  just awful.

IT is better than Jrue at this point in their careers.  I'm no fan of IT unlike most posters here but even I'll admit he's better than Jrue.

Sully is better than Ryan as well.  Ryan may be the better shooter but Sully is by far the better rebounder and passer.  He's also better scoring around the basket. 

Asik's deal is horrible.  no desire to take that on.  Lee and Jerebko are at least still serviceable.  not great but serviceable.

how you can even think the C's come out of this better by giving up their top scorer and rebounder for 3 guys that will produce less than who we're sending out is beyond me.

He's literally clueless half the time he posts. It's unfortunate because he can definitely make knowledgeable and logical posts and ideas. It's almost as if he chooses not to.

Lol. 

If I'm ahead of the curve on the Isaiah Thomas backlash, so be it.    Jrue Holiday, when healthy, is better.  I can't say I'm surprised that this is the reaction, though.

And post a video. Why?

In response to a comment that he lost his explosiveness.  He seemed to be moving plenty fine to me.   This wasn't my "evidence" that he's better than Isaiah Thomas.  That'd be pretty stupid.   I'm dumb, but I'm not that stupid.

Holiday is better offensively and defensively than Thomas, though.   It is what it is.  I don't really care enough to have a debate about this.  Thomas is playing well.  We'd be better off with a healthy Jrue Holiday.

Seems like the unanimous reaction to my trade idea is that Boston says no.  K...

So be it.   

FYI, there's another thread out there suggesting that Boston trade for Tyreke Evans and Ryan Anderson.   I think Jrue HOliday, when healthy, is better Tyreke Evans (which seems to be the consensus among Pelicans blogs as well).   Let's see how the that gets twisted in me being biased against Celtic players... 

[alldaboston]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

awful deal.  just awful.

IT is better than Jrue at this point in their careers.  I'm no fan of IT unlike most posters here but even I'll admit he's better than Jrue.

Sully is better than Ryan as well.  Ryan may be the better shooter but Sully is by far the better rebounder and passer.  He's also better scoring around the basket. 

Asik's deal is horrible.  no desire to take that on.  Lee and Jerebko are at least still serviceable.  not great but serviceable.

how you can even think the C's come out of this better by giving up their top scorer and rebounder for 3 guys that will produce less than who we're sending out is beyond me.

He's literally clueless half the time he posts. It's unfortunate because he can definitely make knowledgeable and logical posts and ideas. It's almost as if he chooses not to.

Lol. 

If I'm ahead of the curve on the Isaiah Thomas backlash, so be it.    Jrue Holiday, when healthy, is better.  I can't say I'm surprised that this is the reaction, though.

And post a video. Why?

In response to a comment that he lost his explosiveness.  He seemed to be moving plenty fine to me.   This wasn't my "evidence" that he's better than Isaiah Thomas.  That'd be pretty stupid.   I'm dumb, but I'm not that stupid.

Holiday is better offensively and defensively than Thomas, though.   It is what it is.  I don't really care enough to have a debate about this.  Thomas is playing well.  We'd be better off with a healthy Jrue Holiday.

You literally deleted my entire post except the video part. Also, I said discussion, not debate, but whatever.

If you don't care enough about it, stop jumping on other people when they state their opinions.

[crimson_stallion]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers, or the pure subjective opinions of people who have no professional expertise on the subject?

For example, you claim that Holiday is a great defensive player - yet his DRPM numbers suggest that his team becomes significantly worse defensively when he steps on the court.

His defensive stats last year were slightly positive, and the year before they were very positive, so a couple of years ago I'm sure he probably was a very good defensive player.  His stats this year suggest his defence has dropped off in a big way, since he now ranks barely starting calibre on that end of the court (as opposes to ranking towards the top, as he had the past two seasons).   

I also still have not heard you justify how you believe he is better offensively than Isaiah Thomas. I find this claim highly amusing, but to be fair I am willing to give you a chance to back it up.  Every statistic I've seen so far indicates that Thomas is on a whole other level offensively - not even close.

[alldaboston]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers, or the pure subjective opinions of people who have no professional expertise on the subject?

For example, you claim that Holiday is a great defensive player - yet his DRPM numbers suggest that his team becomes significantly worse defensively when he steps on the court.

His defensive stats last year were slightly positive, and the year before they were very positive, so a couple of years ago I'm sure he probably was a very good defensive player.  His stats this year suggest his defence has dropped off in a big way, since he now ranks barely starting calibre on that end of the court (as opposes to ranking towards the top, as he had the past two seasons).   

I also still have not heard you justify how you believe he is better offensively than Isaiah Thomas. I find this claim highly amusing, but to be fair I am willing to give you a chance to back it up.  Every statistic I've seen so far indicates that Thomas is on a whole other level offensively - not even close.

Don't waste your time bud. He "doesn't care enough to debate about it" apparently. I gave him multiple chances, but some people are just plain stubborn.

[LarBrd33]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

awful deal.  just awful.

IT is better than Jrue at this point in their careers.  I'm no fan of IT unlike most posters here but even I'll admit he's better than Jrue.

Sully is better than Ryan as well.  Ryan may be the better shooter but Sully is by far the better rebounder and passer.  He's also better scoring around the basket. 

Asik's deal is horrible.  no desire to take that on.  Lee and Jerebko are at least still serviceable.  not great but serviceable.

how you can even think the C's come out of this better by giving up their top scorer and rebounder for 3 guys that will produce less than who we're sending out is beyond me.

He's literally clueless half the time he posts. It's unfortunate because he can definitely make knowledgeable and logical posts and ideas. It's almost as if he chooses not to.

Lol. 

If I'm ahead of the curve on the Isaiah Thomas backlash, so be it.    Jrue Holiday, when healthy, is better.  I can't say I'm surprised that this is the reaction, though.

And post a video. Why?

In response to a comment that he lost his explosiveness.  He seemed to be moving plenty fine to me.   This wasn't my "evidence" that he's better than Isaiah Thomas.  That'd be pretty stupid.   I'm dumb, but I'm not that stupid.

Holiday is better offensively and defensively than Thomas, though.   It is what it is.  I don't really care enough to have a debate about this.  Thomas is playing well.  We'd be better off with a healthy Jrue Holiday.

You literally deleted my entire post except the video part. Also, I said discussion, not debate, but whatever.

If you don't care enough about it, stop jumping on other people when they state their opinions.

Fair enough.  Mostly just reacting to the histrionics about how I'm awful for suggesting that healthy Jrue Holiday is better than Thomas when the reality is that healthy Jrue HOliday is better than Thomas.  But it's cool...   If you are anxious for a "discussion"/"debate" about Thomas, I'm sure someone will take you up on one of the "Thomas needs to go back to our bench" threads.   He's a volume scorer and a poor defender.  Totally get why people like him.  Iverson was overrated too.  He's a gimmicky player who is a lot of fun to watch.   There's a reason why we were able to acquire Thomas with late 1st round pick, though... there's a reason why he probably has a future as a long term backup...

While Jrue Holiday has been riddled with injuries, when healthy he's one of the best point guards in the league.   He's a fantastic shooter.  He's a solid defender.  I have a bias towards basketball players who can shoot basketballs well and prevent other players from shooting basketballs well.   This has shades of the old Rondo vs Chris Paul debates.  Been there... done that. 

That said, if someone doesn't want Jrue because he's an injury risk... I totally get that.  Obviously, a DNP Jrue Holiday is worse than a 6th man Isaiah Thomas. 

[Rhyso]

Never been a huge fan of IT myself so I like the premise of the trade for Holiday. However, still cant say Holiday is our answer for a championship caliber backcourt, I think having IT off the bench to get some buckets would be a better long term strategy (not sure how holiday would play off the bench) and find a legit starting 2 guard to pair with Smart.

[LarBrd33]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers

Ok... then you'll be happy to know that Jrue Holiday was significantly better in RPM than Isaiah Thomas last year.  And Jrue Holiday was better than him the year before.  And Jrue was more than likely better in RPM than Thomas the year before, but it looks like ESPN hadn't invented this stupid statistic yet.  Case closed. 

The question is, would taking on Asik's contract be worth the upgrade.

[crimson_stallion]

Holiday is better offensively and defensively than Thomas, though.   It is what it is.  I don't really care enough to have a debate about this.  Thomas is playing well.  We'd be better off with a healthy Jrue Holiday.

Seems like the unanimous reaction to my trade idea is that Boston says no.  K...

So be it.   

FYI, there's another thread out there suggesting that Boston trade for Tyreke Evans and Ryan Anderson.   I think Jrue HOliday, when healthy, is better Tyreke Evans (which seems to be the consensus among Pelicans blogs as well).   Let's see how the that gets twisted in me being biased against Celtic players... 

See, I try to be fair and reasonable in the way I take your posts, but this here is what I just don't get.

You keep saying that Holiday is a better offensive player than Thomas.  Yet you continue to refuse to offer any justifiable reasoning as to why you believe this to be the case.

What things does Holiday to better that contributes to him being a better overall offensive player?  Convince me.

Again I try to be fair and reasonable, but when you make comments along the lines of "Holiday is better offensive player than Thomas, I don't have to justify it, and if you don't agree so be it" then it's kind of a given that people aren't going to take you very seriously in their responses.

All I expect is a simple "he is better offensively because of X Y Z". 

The only significant advantage I see for this season is three point percentage, and that's really about it. I consider even that to be somewhat of a moot point given that Holiday has shot only slightly better from three for his career (37.8%) than Thomas has (35.8%), and their career FG% are (for all intents and purposes) identical - so it's not like you're comparing an elite shooter to a terrible one.  Holiday is perhaps a slightly better outside shooter than Thomas, but appears to be worst than Thomas offensively in every other possible way. 

When the basic box score stats AND the advanced stats pretty much all favour Thomas by a significant margin, then I find it hard to fathom how / why you would suggest Holiday is a better offensive player than Thomas.

Your claim that Holiday is a better offensive player than Tyeke is a fair one, and to be honest it's probably true.  It's fairly easy to back that with statistics and objective figures.  I feel Tyreke is a better overall player overall however, due to his size and versatility (which allows him to play and defend three positions).  But as an offensive player?  Sure Holiday is probably better.

So again, I am just curious as to why you make the claim you do - especially since you seem so utterly convinced of it, like there isn't the slightest hint of uncertainty in your decision. 

[crimson_stallion]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers

Ok... then you'll be happy to know that Jrue Holiday was significantly better in RPM than Isaiah Thomas last year.  And Jrue Holiday was better than him the year before.  And Jrue was more than likely better in RPM than Thomas the year before, but it looks like ESPN hadn't invented this stupid statistic yet.  Case closed. 

The question is, would taking on Asik's contract be worth the upgrade.

Hence, if you had have presented this idea last season, or the season before, perhaps my point of view would have been different.  But you never said that Holiday was better than Thomas on offense and defense - you said that he is better.  The advanced stats this year indicate Thomas has significantly more positive impact on his team than Holiday does.

Also even the facts you just stated still do not back your argument that Holiday is (or ever was) a better offensive player than Thomas.

Offensive RPM over the past three years:

2015/16
Thomas: +4.95
Holiday: +1.58

2014/15
Thomas: +4.14
Holiday: +2.45

2013/14
Thomas: +3.85
Holiday: +0.41

Really not much of an argument there.

[slamtheking]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers

Ok... then you'll be happy to know that Jrue Holiday was significantly better in RPM than Isaiah Thomas last year.  And Jrue Holiday was better than him the year before.  And Jrue was more than likely better in RPM than Thomas the year before, but it looks like ESPN hadn't invented this stupid statistic yet.  Case closed. 

The question is, would taking on Asik's contract be worth the upgrade.

but not this year which makes your point moot.  we're trading them as they are today -- not for what they did in the past.

I liked Holiday in his Philly days.  I just don't trust his health nor do I see him as on the same level as IT at this point.  IT is not the solution as are starting PG but I don't see Holiday as that solution either.

as for the whole trade, who becomes our scorer without IT?  it won't be Holiday or Anderson.  Who replaces Sully's rebounding?   It's not the offensively-useless Asik. 

still not seeing the point of this deal.

[LarBrd33]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers

Ok... then you'll be happy to know that Jrue Holiday was significantly better in RPM than Isaiah Thomas last year.  And Jrue Holiday was better than him the year before.  And Jrue was more than likely better in RPM than Thomas the year before, but it looks like ESPN hadn't invented this stupid statistic yet.  Case closed. 

The question is, would taking on Asik's contract be worth the upgrade.

Hence, if you had have presented this idea last season, or the season before, perhaps my point of view would have been different.  But you never said that Holiday was better than Thomas on offense and defense - you said that he is better.

I said that when healthy, Jrue is better than Thomas.  He is.

Don't see the point in focusing on the first 30 games of the season in which Holiday was intentionally limited to 15-25 minutes in order to get his body strong post surgery.

Perhaps it's a bad gamble, because Jrue could get re-injured.  But if we're talking about healthy jrue vs healthy thomas.... healthy jrue is a better basketball player on both ends.

[crimson_stallion]

Jrue Holiday (10 mil 2 years), Ryan Anderson (8.5 mil expiring), Omer Asik (9.2 mil - 5 years)

For

Lee's expiring (15 mil), Jerebko's expiring (5 mil), Isaiah Thomas (6.9 mil - 3 years) and Jared Sullinger (2.5 mil ... restricted free agent)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5rn32m

Just to throw an intersting look at this (and expand on my previous post) I'm going to quantify this deal based on RPM (i.e. net impact the player has on their team). 

Players coming in:
* Holiday: -0.12
* Anderson: -1.97
* Asik: +0.25

Players going out:
* David Lee: -0.98
* Jonas Jerebko: -1.23
* Isaiah Thomas: +2.84
* Jared Sullinger: +3.05

I'll let you look at that and decide whether you think this trade makes us better, or worse.

Why do you put so much stock into RPM?

Because a players' objectively quantified impact on the team is more important to me than one-dimensional box score numbers

Ok... then you'll be happy to know that Jrue Holiday was significantly better in RPM than Isaiah Thomas last year.  And Jrue Holiday was better than him the year before.  And Jrue was more than likely better in RPM than Thomas the year before, but it looks like ESPN hadn't invented this stupid statistic yet.  Case closed. 

The question is, would taking on Asik's contract be worth the upgrade.

Hence, if you had have presented this idea last season, or the season before, perhaps my point of view would have been different.  But you never said that Holiday was better than Thomas on offense and defense - you said that he is better.

I said that when healthy, Jrue is better than Thomas.  He is.

Don't see the point in focusing on the first 30 games of the season in which Holiday was intentionally limited to 15-25 minutes in order to get his body strong post surgery.

Perhaps it's a bad gamble, because Jrue could get re-injured.  But if we're talking about healthy jrue vs healthy thomas.... healthy jrue is a better basketball player on both ends.

For goodness sake man...I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here.

If you are so convinced that healthy Jrue Holiday is a better offensive player than healthy Isaiah Thomas, then please justify it.

I think I am being perfectly fair and reasonable here.  I'm not throwing insults at you, I'm giving you an opportunity to back your point of view, and I've already thrown out countless statistics (both advanced and basic) which almost exclusively indicate that Thomas is a far better offensive player.

So far you have:

1) Repeatedly state that Jrue Holiday is better offensively and defensively than Thomas, without any justification at all as to why you believe this.

2) Criticised and attempted to discredit RPM as a stupid stat, despite acknowledging that it actually supports part of your argument (that Holiday is a better defensive player, and had more overall positive impact in 13/14 and 14/15)

3) Use injuries as an excuse for Holiday's poorer RPM stats for this season - which is a fair argument

You still continue to absolutely refuse to give any justification as to why Holiday is a better offensive player than Thomas.  None at all.   

Why??

Is it because you just aren't that convinced, but you feel his defensive advantages make up for it?  If so then fine, just say so.

Is it because you just think he's more fun to watch, but can't quantity it?  Fine, then just say he's a more fun offensive player, and you just prefer his game.

Is it because you think three point shooting is the most important offensive aspect for a PG, and so for that reason along you consider him more valuable than Thomas?  If so fine, say so.

I don't care what your justification is, just give me something.

Personally, I don't think you have anything.  I think you've made the claim that he's a better offensive player based purely on the eye test of you watching him play in past seasons...but now you've looked at all the stats and you've realised hat he's not as good offensively as your remember him being, and just don't want to admit you were wrong.  That's what I think.

But I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and I'm giving you a chance to show otherwise.  Again, I think I'm being perfectly reasonable here and if you feel so strongly about your conclusion then I'm unsure of why you are so unwilling to strengthen your argument with reasoning / evidence.

I just want to know how you are going to back your claim that a guy who is the 3rd best player
(arguably 4th, depending on how you feel about Eric Gordon) on the 26th best team in the NBA is more valuable than a guy who is the best player on the 15th best team in the NBA.