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Magic trade idea
« on: January 11, 2016, 10:21:33 AM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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We trade: Avery Bradley, Jared Sullinger
We get: Mario Hezonja, Jason Smith

Why for us:  Hezonja is clearly talented and has shown flashes in limited minutes, but he's been buried on the bench because the Magic have a lot of good young players at the 2/3 and Scott Skiles is notoriously tough on rookies (He glued Tobias Harris to the bench when he coached him in Milwaukee and then Harris took off as soon as he was traded).  Hezonja is 6'8" and a great shooter and athlete, so he could potentially play the 2, 3, or maybe even some 4 if he bulks up, and he could eventually be the go-to scorer we desperately need.  This could be a chance to unearth a potential star for relatively cheap (and a gamble we should be taking given our current roster construction).  Smith is a throw-in to make the salaries work, he's a decent backup big on a one year deal that we could either keep as a mentor for our young guys or buy out.  Bradley is a great role player on a cheap deal, but he's not going to get much better than he is and we need to find a star to get to the next level.  By trading him, we both acquire a guy who could be a star and open up more playing time for Smart, Rozier, and Hunter so we can see what we have with them.  Sully is also a productive player, but again, not a future star and probably not someone we want to bring back on a big contract.  If we trade him now we make sure we don't lose him for nothing and open up some playing time for Mickey. 

Why for Orlando:  Hezonja is a great prospect, but they have a lot of young talent blocking him from getting PT in Oladipo, Fournier, and Harris.  Since Orlando has a lot of young talent in place, they're at the point where they probably want to start making deeper playoff runs and getting their young guys some playoff experience, and the East is still close enough that a win-now move or two could vault them up 4-5 spots in the standings.  Hezonja likely won't get enough PT to reach his potential in Orlando, and this is an opportunity to trade him while his value is still high and get some guys who can help them make a deeper playoff run.  Bradley gives them another tough perimeter defender to go along with Payton and Oladipo, as well as some much-needed long-range shooting.  He's young enough to grow with the rest of their team, he's locked up on a cheap deal, and he's the kind of hard-nosed, high character guy that Skiles would love.  Sullinger is an upgrade on Smith as a backup big man and gives them a physical presence that neither Vucevic nor Frye really offers.  Like Smith, he's on an expiring deal, but unlike Smith, he's young enough that they might be interested in signing him to a long term deal if he plays well.  He's also a restricted free agent, so if they decide he's not a part of their long term future they can get something for him in a sign and trade, which wouldn't happen with Smith.

I think this deal makes sense for both teams.  Thoughts?

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 11:04:31 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I bet this deal would take two firsts for the Magic to even have interest. Therefore I wouldn't be interested.

The Magic won't be a playoff team this year. They don't need a role player like AB and a guy coming up for contract in Sully. They'd much rather see what Hezonja can do and continue to let him develop.

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 11:41:08 AM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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I bet this deal would take two firsts for the Magic to even have interest. Therefore I wouldn't be interested.

The Magic won't be a playoff team this year. They don't need a role player like AB and a guy coming up for contract in Sully. They'd much rather see what Hezonja can do and continue to let him develop.

It could be that the Magic aren't getting enough here, but I have to disagree with you on the second part.  The Magic are the 8 seed right now and only 3.5 games out of the 2 seed.  If they make a trade that improves the roster this season they could easily get home court in the playoffs.  And they don't seem to be terribly interested in seeing what Hezonja can do considering that he only plays 13 minutes per game.

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 02:16:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm also interested in the Magic as a trade partner.

But I think you have to give them something more enticing than an average starting shooting guard and a bench caliber rebounder.


Here's my idea:

BOS sends: Isaiah Thomas, Amir Johnson, Jared Sullinger

ORL sends: Victor Oladipo, Mario Hezonja, Channing Frye



Why for Boston:

- Oladipo and Hezonja are two young wing talents with high lottery pedigree.  Oladipo and Smart could be a fantastic defensive backcourt.  Hezonja could be the cocky, incendiary wing shooter the Celts desperately need.

Why for Orlando:

- Exchange Oladipo and Hezonja, who are in a bit of an odd-man-out situation in Orlando, for a borderline All-Star scorer at the point and some much needed defensive / rebounding big men to play next to Nikola Vucevic.

- Isaiah Thomas could play 25-30 minutes off the bench for Orlando and provide them with the dangerous scoring ball-handler they really need to complement Harris and Vucevic. 


I'd be willing to throw in a first round pick (BOS or DAL 2016) to make it happen.  I really like Oladipo and Hezonja as prospects, but I don't think they're likely to thrive on the Magic.  Meanwhile, I think this trade would be selling high on Isaiah Thomas (which is a good thing), and would open up more opportunity for Smart and Rozier to compete for the starting point guard spot.
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Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 02:20:07 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I like both deals. That's for sure.

I don't know enough about Orlando to know if they'd pull the trigger on either, but these are the types of deals we should look into doing.

For the first deal. It's nice because it gets us a nice talent (Hezonja) and opens some minutes for Mickey by losing Sully.

Second deal it's a bit more difficult. By trading Amir Isaiah and Sully, you KILL our current team by gutting us down low (best rebounder and defender out) and don't replace Isaiah's scoring.

However you do add Oladipo and Hezonja which are two guys who have a ton of talent.

Only problem is Rozier Oladipo and Smart really probably won't be able to coexist but the priority is on adding top level talent.

I think I'd rather do deal #1

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 03:02:33 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I like Orlando as a trade partner, as well, and think they should consider making moves soon. They have a number of young players and not all of them are going to develop into stars. They should think about who they want to keep and trade others for youngish solid veterans who can help them win. Don't you think Detroit wishes they traded Monroe while they could have?

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 03:05:20 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Don't care for hezjonja .  I rather trade for Aaron gordon

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 03:06:17 PM »

Offline konkmv

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Only aaron gordon from them

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 03:08:24 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Quote
Hezonja likely won't get enough PT to reach his potential in Orlando

Quote
And they don't seem to be terribly interested in seeing what Hezonja can do considering that he only plays 13 minutes per game.

Because they're playing a rookie 13.5mpg while also winning games means they must not be interested in Hezonja?

Go look at how many minutes guys like Kobe (15.5mpg), Big Al (14.8mpg), Jimmy Butler (8.5mpg), DeAndre Jordan (14.5mpg), Jeff Teague (10.1mpg), Gordon Hayward (16.9mpg), Draymond Green (13.4mpg) and a host of other players got as rookies.

Just because you're not playing 35mpg in year 1 doesn't mean your team as no interest in you, nor does it mean a spot won't open up in the future.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 03:11:32 PM »

Offline max215

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Quote
Hezonja likely won't get enough PT to reach his potential in Orlando

Quote
And they don't seem to be terribly interested in seeing what Hezonja can do considering that he only plays 13 minutes per game.

Because they're playing a rookie 13.5mpg while also winning games means they must not be interested in Hezonja?

Go look at how many minutes guys like Kobe (15.5mpg), Big Al (14.8mpg), Jimmy Butler (8.5mpg), DeAndre Jordan (14.5mpg), Jeff Teague (10.1mpg), Gordon Hayward (16.9mpg), Draymond Green (13.4mpg) and a host of other players got as rookies.

Just because you're not playing 35mpg in year 1 doesn't mean your team as no interest in you, nor does it mean a spot won't open up in the future.

None of those guys were top five picks.
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Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 03:36:09 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Quote
Hezonja likely won't get enough PT to reach his potential in Orlando

Quote
And they don't seem to be terribly interested in seeing what Hezonja can do considering that he only plays 13 minutes per game.

Because they're playing a rookie 13.5mpg while also winning games means they must not be interested in Hezonja?

Go look at how many minutes guys like Kobe (15.5mpg), Big Al (14.8mpg), Jimmy Butler (8.5mpg), DeAndre Jordan (14.5mpg), Jeff Teague (10.1mpg), Gordon Hayward (16.9mpg), Draymond Green (13.4mpg) and a host of other players got as rookies.

Just because you're not playing 35mpg in year 1 doesn't mean your team as no interest in you, nor does it mean a spot won't open up in the future.

None of those guys were top five picks.

What does that have to do with anything?

I showed a wide variety of players, from top 10 (Hayward, to lottery (Kobe), mid-to-late first (Big Al, Teague, Butler), to 2nd rounders (Green, Jordan).

I showed guys from winning teams (Kobe, Teague, Butler, Big Al) to guys drafted on losing teams (Jordan, Green, Hayward).

I showed you guys drafted out of high school to guys with multiple years of college.  I showed you PG to C.  You want top 5?  Go look at how many minutes Baron Davis (18.6) or Cody Zeller (17.3) or Mike Dunleavy (15.9), or Otto Porter (8.6) got as rookies. And those are guys whose teams invested several years in.

Not all teams play rookies 35mpg, regardless of where they're drafted.  Doesn't mean that team isn't interested in keeping that player.  Doesn't mean more minutes won't open up down the line.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 03:42:57 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 09:45:19 PM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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Quote
Hezonja likely won't get enough PT to reach his potential in Orlando

Quote
And they don't seem to be terribly interested in seeing what Hezonja can do considering that he only plays 13 minutes per game.

Because they're playing a rookie 13.5mpg while also winning games means they must not be interested in Hezonja?

Go look at how many minutes guys like Kobe (15.5mpg), Big Al (14.8mpg), Jimmy Butler (8.5mpg), DeAndre Jordan (14.5mpg), Jeff Teague (10.1mpg), Gordon Hayward (16.9mpg), Draymond Green (13.4mpg) and a host of other players got as rookies.

Just because you're not playing 35mpg in year 1 doesn't mean your team as no interest in you, nor does it mean a spot won't open up in the future.

None of those guys were top five picks.

What does that have to do with anything?

I showed a wide variety of players, from top 10 (Hayward, to lottery (Kobe), mid-to-late first (Big Al, Teague, Butler), to 2nd rounders (Green, Jordan).

I showed guys from winning teams (Kobe, Teague, Butler, Big Al) to guys drafted on losing teams (Jordan, Green, Hayward).

I showed you guys drafted out of high school to guys with multiple years of college.  I showed you PG to C.  You want top 5?  Go look at how many minutes Baron Davis (18.6) or Cody Zeller (17.3) or Mike Dunleavy (15.9), or Otto Porter (8.6) got as rookies. And those are guys whose teams invested several years in.

Not all teams play rookies 35mpg, regardless of where they're drafted.  Doesn't mean that team isn't interested in keeping that player.  Doesn't mean more minutes won't open up down the line.

None of the guys you mentioned had 3 good young players ahead of them on the depth chart.  Harris, Oladipo, and Fournier are all only 23 and have established themselves as good NBA players.  Harris is already locked up long term and I doubt the other two are going anywhere.  Sure, Hezonja might be better than all of them, but that's not happening if he doesn't get playing time.  Who are they going to sit to give Hezonja that time?  I'm not saying Hezonja is available for peanuts, but the Magic have to know that they can't keep all 4 of those guys, and I don't think it's crazy to think that the most unproven one is the odd man out.

Re: Magic trade idea
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2016, 10:36:07 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Quote
Hezonja likely won't get enough PT to reach his potential in Orlando

Quote
And they don't seem to be terribly interested in seeing what Hezonja can do considering that he only plays 13 minutes per game.

Because they're playing a rookie 13.5mpg while also winning games means they must not be interested in Hezonja?

Go look at how many minutes guys like Kobe (15.5mpg), Big Al (14.8mpg), Jimmy Butler (8.5mpg), DeAndre Jordan (14.5mpg), Jeff Teague (10.1mpg), Gordon Hayward (16.9mpg), Draymond Green (13.4mpg) and a host of other players got as rookies.

Just because you're not playing 35mpg in year 1 doesn't mean your team as no interest in you, nor does it mean a spot won't open up in the future.

None of those guys were top five picks.

What does that have to do with anything?

I showed a wide variety of players, from top 10 (Hayward, to lottery (Kobe), mid-to-late first (Big Al, Teague, Butler), to 2nd rounders (Green, Jordan).

I showed guys from winning teams (Kobe, Teague, Butler, Big Al) to guys drafted on losing teams (Jordan, Green, Hayward).

I showed you guys drafted out of high school to guys with multiple years of college.  I showed you PG to C.  You want top 5?  Go look at how many minutes Baron Davis (18.6) or Cody Zeller (17.3) or Mike Dunleavy (15.9), or Otto Porter (8.6) got as rookies. And those are guys whose teams invested several years in.

Not all teams play rookies 35mpg, regardless of where they're drafted.  Doesn't mean that team isn't interested in keeping that player.  Doesn't mean more minutes won't open up down the line.

None of the guys you mentioned had 3 good young players ahead of them on the depth chart.  Harris, Oladipo, and Fournier are all only 23 and have established themselves as good NBA players.  Harris is already locked up long term and I doubt the other two are going anywhere.  Sure, Hezonja might be better than all of them, but that's not happening if he doesn't get playing time.  Who are they going to sit to give Hezonja that time?  I'm not saying Hezonja is available for peanuts, but the Magic have to know that they can't keep all 4 of those guys, and I don't think it's crazy to think that the most unproven one is the odd man out.

I will add that Orlando is likely to sign Fournier in the offseason as not to lose him for nothing (similar to how they handled the Harris situation). I don't know that they are actively looking to trade Hezonja (or anybody), but you have to think they would listen if the right deal came around.