I want brook lopez on the celtics

[crimson_stallion]

We passed on Monroe FOR FREE last summer.

I take Monroe every day over Lopez. Better passer, stronger rebounder, runs the floor far better, 2 years younger, far more durable and over $2mil/year cheaper.

If we passed on Monroe, I can't see our interest in Lopez.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Monroe is a better rebounder, is younger, and has no injury concerns unlike Lopez.

I've been posting this hypothetical trade since last week.

Boston trades: David Lee, Jared Sullinger, their 1st this year, Dallas 1st
Boston gets: Greg Monroe

Milwaukee trades: Greg Monroe, Michael Carter Williams
Milwaukee gets: Brandon Knight, Markieff Morris

Phoenix trades: Brandon Knight, Markieff Morris
Phoenix gets: David Lee, Jared Sullinger, Michael Carter Williams, Bostons 1st, Dallas 1st

Pretty fair deal to me. Everyone gets what they want/need.

TP....interesting trade idea.....big fan of Monroe.....would love to have him.....doubt we pay for him now when we could've had him last summer.....I blame Stevens, but that's just conjecture.....he's not a big that stretches the floor.

My opinion is that if Stevens is that good a coach, he should be able to adapt his system to the talents of player like Monroe, rather than pass on that talent because he doesn't fit the system.

Agreed - would do this trade in a heartbeat.

[LarBrd33]

we need a big who can score and rebound. THESE ARE OUR TWO WEAKEST POINTS. Brook lopez fits the bill. He is the lone star with no hope and we hold the keys to their future. I would give them their 2017 and 2018 pick back. Along with david lee, tyler zeller, terry rosier and james young. What do you think?

I'd give them the 2017 and 2018 picks back too. 

1 - Lopez helps this team if he stays healthy.  He's really good.
2 - Probably locks in Brooklyn as a bottom team this year and gives you a real shot at a star prospect through the draft.
3 - I think Brooklyn has something like 40 million in cap space this summer... they can probably be a lot better next season if they build around Lopez.  The cap jumps another 20 mil the year after...  I think a big market like Brooklyn can be a threat in free agency.   I wouldn't bet on them sucking again next year.
4 - Imagine we had Lopez (who stays healthy) and land a top pick in the draft... we might lure another free agent to play with... maybe a star demands a trade here and we're able to move the prospect for a 3rd star... who knows.

Gotta take a big swing at some point.

[alldaboston]

We passed on Monroe FOR FREE last summer.

I take Monroe every day over Lopez. Better passer, stronger rebounder, runs the floor far better, 2 years younger, far more durable and over $2mil/year cheaper.

If we passed on Monroe, I can't see our interest in Lopez.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Monroe is a better rebounder, is younger, and has no injury concerns unlike Lopez.

I've been posting this hypothetical trade since last week.

Boston trades: David Lee, Jared Sullinger, their 1st this year, Dallas 1st
Boston gets: Greg Monroe

Milwaukee trades: Greg Monroe, Michael Carter Williams
Milwaukee gets: Brandon Knight, Markieff Morris

Phoenix trades: Brandon Knight, Markieff Morris
Phoenix gets: David Lee, Jared Sullinger, Michael Carter Williams, Bostons 1st, Dallas 1st

Pretty fair deal to me. Everyone gets what they want/need.

Not sure Milwaukee does this one, mainly to save face after trading Knight away last year, and after signing Monroe too. Also, adding Morris to the logjam already existing due to Giannis and Jabari and Middleton wouldn't make a ton of sense. However, it would free them up time to play Henson more.

[MJohnnyboy]

We passed on Monroe FOR FREE last summer.

I take Monroe every day over Lopez. Better passer, stronger rebounder, runs the floor far better, 2 years younger, far more durable and over $2mil/year cheaper.

If we passed on Monroe, I can't see our interest in Lopez.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Monroe is a better rebounder, is younger, and has no injury concerns unlike Lopez.

I've been posting this hypothetical trade since last week.

Boston trades: David Lee, Jared Sullinger, their 1st this year, Dallas 1st
Boston gets: Greg Monroe

Milwaukee trades: Greg Monroe, Michael Carter Williams
Milwaukee gets: Brandon Knight, Markieff Morris

Phoenix trades: Brandon Knight, Markieff Morris
Phoenix gets: David Lee, Jared Sullinger, Michael Carter Williams, Bostons 1st, Dallas 1st

Pretty fair deal to me. Everyone gets what they want/need.

Not sure Milwaukee does this one, mainly to save face after trading Knight away last year, and after signing Monroe too. Also, adding Morris to the logjam already existing due to Giannis and Jabari and Middleton wouldn't make a ton of sense. However, it would free them up time to play Henson more.

The Celtics re-acquired Antoine Walker less than 2 years after they traded him. This definitely isn't the same case but it goes to show that anything can happen.

If pride is what stands in the way of improving your team, then you shouldn't be running a team. I understand the Bucks would be embarrassed if they did this, but it was working before when they had Knight and the Bucks have had serious issues with spacing since they traded him away. If he's on the market, then I say get him back.

Morris would be a valuable stretch 4 and would add to the versatility and athleticism that this Bucks team has. Considering he's 6'10'', I wouldn't be surprised if the Bucks would hypothetically play him at the 5 if they were to acquire him. He'd be a good bench player for them, which they have been kind of short on after they traded Zaza and Dudley last year.

Then again, I aint the Bucks.

[crimson_stallion]

we need a big who can score and rebound. THESE ARE OUR TWO WEAKEST POINTS. Brook lopez fits the bill. He is the lone star with no hope and we hold the keys to their future. I would give them their 2017 and 2018 pick back. Along with david lee, tyler zeller, terry rosier and james young. What do you think?

I'd give them the 2017 and 2018 picks back too. 

1 - Lopez helps this team if he stays healthy.  He's really good.
2 - Probably locks in Brooklyn as a bottom team this year and gives you a real shot at a star prospect through the draft.
3 - I think Brooklyn has something like 40 million in cap space this summer... they can probably be a lot better next season if they build around Lopez.  The cap jumps another 20 mil the year after...  I think a big market like Brooklyn can be a threat in free agency.   I wouldn't bet on them sucking again next year.
4 - Imagine we had Lopez (who stays healthy) and land a top pick in the draft... we might lure another free agent to play with... maybe a star demands a trade here and we're able to move the prospect for a 3rd star... who knows.

Gotta take a big swing at some point.

1) I agree he could help in a big way offensively, but one thing I don't like about him is that he is so one dimensional, which really restricts who you can play him next to.  Lopez really has no range, he is a horrible rebounder for a center,  he isn't a good passer, and he's far too slow to defend quicker (or more perimeter oriented) bigs. 

All of that makes him a REALLY bad fit for Brad's system, which emphasises ball movement, defensive versatility and outside shooting.  It basically means that if you want to effectively make up for his weaknesses, then you need a starting PF who can shoot from outside, can rebound at a high rate, can pass, and can defend the quicker big.  Finding a PF who ticks all of those boxes is a very difficult task - near impossible, in fact.  I think that's why no team has ever really gone all that far with Lopez as their starting centre. 

Throw in the health concerns and the size of the contract and it's just too risky for my taste.   


2) I agree it probably makes Brooklyn worse, but they are already the third worst team in the NBA and it's unlikely they ever drop below Philly - so the best case is what?  They drop one spot and beat the Lakers to the 2nd worst record in the league? Not that big a deal really.


3)  Almost every team in the NBA is going to have tons of cap space this year, and the best realistically attainable free agent is probably Andre Drummond, who would not work well at all with Lopez.  In fact it's probably the worst time to have cap space, since you'll be competing with all of the other 30 teams who all have cap space - you need blind luck to get a good FA in that scenario.  With all the bad decisions, lack of success and general uncertainty surrounding Brooklyn...not sure they'll have much allure. 


4) Again, I'm not sure that's really such a great scenario.  You sill need to find a suitable big to start next to Lopez, and we don't have one.  We could go with Amir Johnson, but then the lack of range will kill us.  We could go Olynyk, but we'd get tortured on the boards and by quicker guys.  Just a hard situation to win at, really.

[Hawkeye199]

I'm generally against the idea of centers who don't rebound and don't play defense, especially when they're a giant health risk on top of everything else. But then I saw this deal proposed today:

David Lee, Jonas Jarebko and Dallas’ 2016 first round pick to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez
http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/1/11/10749994/nba-trade-idea-get-brook-lopez

Am I just being stubborn? Isn't this, objectively, a win of a trade for the Celtics? It jettisons a couple of players who aren't in the rotation along with a mid-round pick that isn't going to be super valuable given our wealth of picks and in return the C's get a starting Center who knows how to score (filling a big need for the team). What do the Celtics actually risk in the deal? Some money and stress invested in a big man with injury issues? I think that's worth it.

The cherry on top is that without Lopez (or Jack) this Nets team could contend for the 2nd worst record in the league. If the Nets agreed to it, I think I'd have to say yes to that deal.

Brook lopez does in fact rebound don't take my word for it

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1q9a4x/why_does_brook_lopez_suck_at_rebounding/

[Hemingway]

A lot of good points on here. What I keep coming back to is that the nets will probably not finish in the bottom 3. Think about the last 20 games of the season. There will be a few teams that are better than the nets that decide to sit players or not bring guys back after injury so they can lose a few more games. The nets have no motivation to do that.

I kind of like LrrBird's idea, I wonder if we could give them picks back to get another one further into the future? Like give back the 17 and 18 but get the 2019 one.

[number_n9ne]

I would take Lopez on this team in a heartbeat but it would have to be for the right deal. I think the OP's original trade would be way too much to give up. More like Lee, Sully, Young, 2016 Dallas 1st, 2016 Philly 2nd, and a future 1st (not their own.)

They would get a young SF in Young to go with their future youth movement, an expiring to free up more cap space, and Sully who they can try and resign. Plus 3 picks? The Philly 2016 is kind of a great pick. It's going to be number 31 which, IMO, is a great pick to have and offers them a lot of flexibility as far as drafting and contracts. Looking at their draft last year, I think they would want it too.

We get a starting center (FINALLY!) We have 3 guys who would look really good next to Lopez in Johnson, Olynyk and Mickey. Olynyk would stretch the floor and give Lopez a ton of room to work. Amir and Mickey would (hopefully) cover up any of Lopez's defensive deficiencies. We would also get a go-to scorer for when the offense breaks down.

[PhoSita]

The problem with this idea of trading for Lopez is that installing a post-heavy center in your offense requires you to configure your whole team around that player in order to really make it work.

As constituted, the Celts are not set up to succeed playing that style.  The Celts also lack any forwards who would work well next to Lopez.

[manl_lui]

I want Drummond

On this Celts team I actually want a guy more like Marc Gasol or Al Horford.  A guy who can pass and score in a variety of ways.

I want Drummond as well, a kid that can rebound out of his mind, he's younger than Marc Gasol and Al, and is still improving every year. I won't be greedy, just improve on his FT% to like 50% or 60%. His post moves are improving as well and isn't entirely relying on just offensive put backs. He will continue to improve I believe.

A young defensive center who can rebound. IT and probably ET are the only two players on our team who can create their own shot but isn't perfect...Drummond is PERFECT to also do their cleanups. The kid is averaging 5.4 offensive boards a game this season.

His rebounding, and ppg is improving every year http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6585/andre-drummond

[number_n9ne]

The problem with this idea of trading for Lopez is that installing a post-heavy center in your offense requires you to configure your whole team around that player in order to really make it work.

As constituted, the Celts are not set up to succeed playing that style.  The Celts also lack any forwards who would work well next to Lopez.

I like you, but I disagree with this. I think surrounding Lopez with 4 shooters in Thomas/Bradley/Crowder/Olynyk would be ideal. And I think we have the perfect forwards to match with him both offensively and defensively. Could you explain more on why we aren't set up to succeed? I can only see it as the opposite. Also, besides defensively, how would pulling Amir out of the starting line up and replacing him with Lopez change anything? I feel like the style would be exactly the same just with a better offensive player. Amir isn't hitting the 3 ball right now.

[PhoSita]

I like you, but I disagree with this. I think surrounding Lopez with 4 shooters in Thomas/Bradley/Crowder/Olynyk would be ideal. And I think we have the perfect forwards to match with him both offensively and defensively. Could you explain more on why we aren't set up to succeed?

First of all, quick note, who says you can't like somebody and disagree with them?  I don't really dislike anybody on these forums, and I disagree with people all of the time.

To answer your question, I don't think this team has enough size, scoring versatility, or creativity in the half-court to succeed playing a slow-it-down, post-heavy style.  This team does much better when they can get out in transition a lot, and when they are in the half-court, they're better off with everybody constantly moving and spreading the floor.

That's not to say Brad Stevens couldn't find a way to get Brook Lopez integrated and have some success.  I'm just doubtful that it would be worth it.  I think integrating Brook might hurt the team enough in other areas (e.g. it might limit Isaiah's and Crowder's ability to attack the rim) that it'll at best be a wash.

I really think if you want to build a team around a post-scorer, you need to go all-in on that style.  That means finding guys who are big, skilled, and who can score in a lot of different ways (posting up, iso, running off screens, and so on).  The Grizzlies at their best, and the Nets starting lineup the last couple of years, are good examples.  The Celts have had success by leveraging the limited, but still valuable, skillset of a roster of players that are, for the most part, undersized.

[number_n9ne]

First of all, quick note, who says you can't like somebody and disagree with them?  I don't really dislike anybody on these forums, and I disagree with people all of the time.

Haha of course, but sometimes it's nice to start with a positive!

To answer your question, I don't think this team has enough size, scoring versatility, or creativity in the half-court to succeed playing a slow-it-down, post-heavy style.  This team does much better when they can get out in transition a lot, and when they are in the half-court, they're better off with everybody constantly moving and spreading the floor.

That's not to say Brad Stevens couldn't find a way to get Brook Lopez integrated and have some success.  I'm just doubtful that it would be worth it.  I think integrating Brook might hurt the team enough in other areas (e.g. it might limit Isaiah's and Crowder's ability to attack the rim) that it'll at best be a wash.

I really think if you want to build a team around a post-scorer, you need to go all-in on that style.  That means finding guys who are big, skilled, and who can score in a lot of different ways (posting up, iso, running off screens, and so on).  The Grizzlies at their best, and the Nets starting lineup the last couple of years, are good examples.  The Celts have had success by leveraging the limited, but still valuable, skillset of a roster of players that are, for the most part, undersized.

This is true, I didn't take transition into account. I'm focusing more on the break down of offense we seem to be having with our lack of a go-to scorer. I honestly have no idea if he can even run the floor. I haven't watched enough of him to know. It would be interesting to see if he could fit into Stevens' offense rather than build it around him.

EDIT: I do believe he can hit a 15 footer at a solid rate, so while not the 3 point shooter we'd desire, he can still drag a big out of the paint somewhat.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/945/brook-lopez/shotchart/

[Big333223]

I'm generally against the idea of centers who don't rebound and don't play defense, especially when they're a giant health risk on top of everything else. But then I saw this deal proposed today:

David Lee, Jonas Jarebko and Dallas’ 2016 first round pick to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez
http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/1/11/10749994/nba-trade-idea-get-brook-lopez

Am I just being stubborn? Isn't this, objectively, a win of a trade for the Celtics? It jettisons a couple of players who aren't in the rotation along with a mid-round pick that isn't going to be super valuable given our wealth of picks and in return the C's get a starting Center who knows how to score (filling a big need for the team). What do the Celtics actually risk in the deal? Some money and stress invested in a big man with injury issues? I think that's worth it.

The cherry on top is that without Lopez (or Jack) this Nets team could contend for the 2nd worst record in the league. If the Nets agreed to it, I think I'd have to say yes to that deal.

Why do you think Brooklyn would do this?  The answer is no way.  Their owner has already said they won't tank and are trying to win.  By doing a terrible trade like this all they do is improve the pick we're getting from them.  So you think they their best player for 2 backup bigs and a low #1?   

As argued by the ones who came up with the deal (http://friendlybounce.com/2016/01/11/nba-trade-deadline-6-deals-that-would-make-the-league-more-fun/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed):

The Nets, who are without a first round pick until 2019, need a first round pick in order to appropriately hit the reset button. David Lee is an expiring contract, and Jonas Jarebko is a fine player with two years left on his deal. Brooklyn would save nearly $18 million this summer by doing this deal, money they could use to possibly rebuild in free agency.

Would the Nets do it? I don't know. Is there a better deal for Lopez out there? I'm just as unsure about that.

[Vermont Green]

Trading for Lopez is not different than any other trade.  For the right deal, I is a good trade, give too much, it is a bad trade.  I would not give back 2016 #1, that is for sure.  2018 #1 maybe.  There is a chance that they could get FAs enough to be good by 2018, no chance they are good this season.

I don't think that the Nets will trade him though.  Why not see who you can attract via FA to around him and Young?  They will likely hire a big name GM and/or coach and try to create a buzz to make the team appealing.  They may do all that and then Lopez's foot blows out but I feel like it is pretty clear that is how they will go forward.