could somebody unravel this

[celticsclay]

I've always felt that the team should have acquired Isaiah at the deadline and then waived Prince and Bass instead of keeping Bass and trading Prince for Jerebko / Datome.  I think that would've been enough to just miss the playoffs.

Therefore, I disagree with the notion that missing out on a much higher draft pick was simply part of the cost of acquiring IT.  The move to add IT was a great one.  Bass, Jerebko and Datome played significant roles in getting the team to the post-season last year, though. 

Insisting on keeping / getting marginal value for expiring veterans instead of waiving them is harder to justify for me.

I think this is easy to say, but there is no real way of knowing how it would play out last year. How many wins does Bass really get them? Jerekbro and Datome are not difference makers either way. They are the definition of replacement players and any d-leaguer could come in and get hot and win a game. Has Bass helped the Lakers win a single game this year? i would say that he hasn't.

Not to mention these guys do like each other and Bass seemed very well professional and liked in the locker room. I think people around the NBA and Celtics players would notice if they just waived a long time teammate who maybe did not want to leave in the middle of the season.

[csfansince60s]

I've always felt that the team should have acquired Isaiah at the deadline and then waived Prince and Bass instead of keeping Bass and trading Prince for Jerebko / Datome.  I think that would've been enough to just miss the playoffs.

Therefore, I disagree with the notion that missing out on a much higher draft pick was simply part of the cost of acquiring IT.  The move to add IT was a great one.  Bass, Jerebko and Datome played significant roles in getting the team to the post-season last year, though. 

Insisting on keeping / getting marginal value for expiring veterans instead of waiving them is harder to justify for me.

TP. I agree with the first two paragraphs completely and for the most part agree with the third.

Ainge miscalculated. I know this is conjecture, but I think that Ainge believed it didn't matter if we held on to those guys. He thought we weren't going to make the playoffs because it was clear from the following quote that Ainge didn't want us to make the playoffs.

This from an interview with A. Sherrod:

So I asked him if he would like to see the Celtics in the playoffs this year?

“That depends,” Ainge, Boston’s president of basketball operations, told CSNNE.com. “I would love to see our team in the playoffs, but I don’t want to see us back into the playoffs with a really bad record and not even have a fighting chance. If our team can keep getting better by developing, if we can make some deals at the trade deadline that put us in position to actually get into the playoffs and have a chance to win a playoff series, I think that would be a lot of fun.

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/if-cs-keep-improving-ainge-would-love-make-playoffs

Well, we backed in because of injuries and the suckitude of other teams in the East, and we didn't have a snowball's chance to win that playoff series. Clearly,  based on his sentiments in the interview, Danny didn't want us there and Wyc and CBS did. Danny miscalculated and the other two wanted the immediate gratification, and we got porked out of Turner/Winslow/moving up to 4.

[BitterJim]

I've always felt that the team should have acquired Isaiah at the deadline and then waived Prince and Bass instead of keeping Bass and trading Prince for Jerebko / Datome.  I think that would've been enough to just miss the playoffs.

Therefore, I disagree with the notion that missing out on a much higher draft pick was simply part of the cost of acquiring IT.  The move to add IT was a great one.  Bass, Jerebko and Datome played significant roles in getting the team to the post-season last year, though. 

Insisting on keeping / getting marginal value for expiring veterans instead of waiving them is harder to justify for me.

I think this is easy to say, but there is no real way of knowing how it would play out last year. How many wins does Bass really get them? Jerekbro and Datome are not difference makers either way. They are the definition of replacement players and any d-leaguer could come in and get hot and win a game. Has Bass helped the Lakers win a single game this year? i would say that he hasn't.

Not to mention these guys do like each other and Bass seemed very well professional and liked in the locker room. I think people around the NBA and Celtics players would notice if they just waived a long time teammate who maybe did not want to leave in the middle of the season.

Shhhhh, you'll ruin people's feelings of smug superiority

[colincb]

I've always felt that the team should have acquired Isaiah at the deadline and then waived Prince and Bass instead of keeping Bass and trading Prince for Jerebko / Datome.  I think that would've been enough to just miss the playoffs.

Therefore, I disagree with the notion that missing out on a much higher draft pick was simply part of the cost of acquiring IT.  The move to add IT was a great one.  Bass, Jerebko and Datome played significant roles in getting the team to the post-season last year, though. 

Insisting on keeping / getting marginal value for expiring veterans instead of waiving them is harder to justify for me.

TP. I agree with the first two paragraphs completely and for the most part agree with the third.

Ainge miscalculated. I know this is conjecture, but I think that Ainge believed it didn't matter if we held on to those guys. He thought we weren't going to make the playoffs because it was clear from the following quote that Ainge didn't want us to make the playoffs.

This from an interview with A. Sherrod:

So I asked him if he would like to see the Celtics in the playoffs this year?

“That depends,” Ainge, Boston’s president of basketball operations, told CSNNE.com. “I would love to see our team in the playoffs, but I don’t want to see us back into the playoffs with a really bad record and not even have a fighting chance. If our team can keep getting better by developing, if we can make some deals at the trade deadline that put us in position to actually get into the playoffs and have a chance to win a playoff series, I think that would be a lot of fun.

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/if-cs-keep-improving-ainge-would-love-make-playoffs

Well, we backed in because of injuries and the suckitude of other teams in the East, and we didn't have a snowball's chance to win that playoff series. Clearly,  based on his sentiments in the interview, Danny didn't want us there and Wyc and CBS did. Danny miscalculated and the other two wanted the immediate gratification, and we got porked out of Turner/Winslow/moving up to 4.

We didn't back into anything at least in terms as how most use the term. You back into the playoffs despite your own crappy play, usually accompanied with end of season losses AND because of the incompetence of the other competitors for the same playoff slot. We won 20 of 29 to finish the season and thus failed the first prerequisite for "backing in" to the playoffs.

As for the rest of your narrative, I think it's extremely speculative.

[csfansince60s]

I've always felt that the team should have acquired Isaiah at the deadline and then waived Prince and Bass instead of keeping Bass and trading Prince for Jerebko / Datome.  I think that would've been enough to just miss the playoffs.

Therefore, I disagree with the notion that missing out on a much higher draft pick was simply part of the cost of acquiring IT.  The move to add IT was a great one.  Bass, Jerebko and Datome played significant roles in getting the team to the post-season last year, though. 

Insisting on keeping / getting marginal value for expiring veterans instead of waiving them is harder to justify for me.

TP. I agree with the first two paragraphs completely and for the most part agree with the third.

Ainge miscalculated. I know this is conjecture, but I think that Ainge believed it didn't matter if we held on to those guys. He thought we weren't going to make the playoffs because it was clear from the following quote that Ainge didn't want us to make the playoffs.

This from an interview with A. Sherrod:

So I asked him if he would like to see the Celtics in the playoffs this year?

“That depends,” Ainge, Boston’s president of basketball operations, told CSNNE.com. “I would love to see our team in the playoffs, but I don’t want to see us back into the playoffs with a really bad record and not even have a fighting chance. If our team can keep getting better by developing, if we can make some deals at the trade deadline that put us in position to actually get into the playoffs and have a chance to win a playoff series, I think that would be a lot of fun.

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/if-cs-keep-improving-ainge-would-love-make-playoffs

Well, we backed in because of injuries and the suckitude of other teams in the East, and we didn't have a snowball's chance to win that playoff series. Clearly,  based on his sentiments in the interview, Danny didn't want us there and Wyc and CBS did. Danny miscalculated and the other two wanted the immediate gratification, and we got porked out of Turner/Winslow/moving up to 4.

We didn't back into anything at least in terms as how most use the term. You back into the playoffs despite your own crappy play, usually accompanied with end of season losses AND because of the incompetence of the other competitors for the same playoff slot. We won 20 of 29 to finish the season and thus failed the first prerequisite for "backing in" to the playoffs.

As for the rest of your narrative, I think it's extremely speculative.

Two things:

First, I specifically stated that what I was saying was "conjecture", hence speculative. However, inferences of both feelings and state of mind can often be drawn from what someone says. Ainge said he didn't want to make the playoffs unless we had a chance of winning a series. We had none, hence based on what Ainge said, the reasonable man could believe from inference that Ainge didn't want to make the playoffs.

Second, TP,  I agree with you that in the common usage of "backing in", having won a bunch of games in the last 1/3 of the season, we didn't technically "back in." However, despite the fact that both Miami and the Pacers finished pretty strongly in their last 7-8 games, the injuries to George and Wade as well as Al Jeff for the Hornets placed these guys in an un winnable situation prior to those last games.
In addition, catching the Cavs twice in the last week when they had nothing to play for (so they rested their stars) were gimme, just show up games for us. We only were ahead of the Pacers by 2 games. Some would say that was good luck for us. I think it was bad luck. Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe, I guess.

[Chris22]

Ainge is brilliant.
And we still have Brooklyn's first round picks for the next three years and Dallas' first round pick this year.

[celticsclay]

I've always felt that the team should have acquired Isaiah at the deadline and then waived Prince and Bass instead of keeping Bass and trading Prince for Jerebko / Datome.  I think that would've been enough to just miss the playoffs.

Therefore, I disagree with the notion that missing out on a much higher draft pick was simply part of the cost of acquiring IT.  The move to add IT was a great one.  Bass, Jerebko and Datome played significant roles in getting the team to the post-season last year, though. 

Insisting on keeping / getting marginal value for expiring veterans instead of waiving them is harder to justify for me.

I think this is easy to say, but there is no real way of knowing how it would play out last year. How many wins does Bass really get them? Jerekbro and Datome are not difference makers either way. They are the definition of replacement players and any d-leaguer could come in and get hot and win a game. Has Bass helped the Lakers win a single game this year? i would say that he hasn't.

Not to mention these guys do like each other and Bass seemed very well professional and liked in the locker room. I think people around the NBA and Celtics players would notice if they just waived a long time teammate who maybe did not want to leave in the middle of the season.

Shhhhh, you'll ruin people's feelings of smug superiority

pretty much. i just got done watching Bass play mop up basketball for the Lakers in a 30 point blowout against the warriors back ups. The idea that he made us make the playoffs last years seems pretty bizarre and just part of something to fit a larger narrative (we have all seen jerekebro win us tons of games this year right?). Plus nobody has addressed the fact that maybe Bass didn't even want to leave.

[Csfan1984]

thanks everyone-seems danny put together a playoff team for nothing from nothing--THE BIG QUESTION was the lttle guy worth winslow or draft position-

If IT was tank benched after his back injury and Smart held out after ankle C's would have missed playoffs and got Winslow. Blame the playoff push not IT.

[alldaboston]

thanks everyone-seems danny put together a playoff team for nothing from nothing--THE BIG QUESTION was the lttle guy worth winslow or draft position-

If IT was tank benched after his back injury and Smart held out after ankle C's would have missed playoffs and got Winslow. Blame the playoff push not IT.

Why are we still obsessing that we didnt get winslow? he wouldnt have gotten to play as much with us, with Evan still here and Jae being a beast. And he has shown no flashes of scoring potential, something we desperately need. I get his defense is good, but haven't we had enough times this season where we field an offensively inept lineup?

[Csfan1984]

thanks everyone-seems danny put together a playoff team for nothing from nothing--THE BIG QUESTION was the lttle guy worth winslow or draft position-

If IT was tank benched after his back injury and Smart held out after ankle C's would have missed playoffs and got Winslow. Blame the playoff push not IT.

Why are we still obsessing that we didnt get winslow? he wouldnt have gotten to play as much with us, with Evan still here and Jae being a beast. And he has shown no flashes of scoring potential, something we desperately need. I get his defense is good, but haven't we had enough times this season where we field an offensively inept lineup?

I'm saying don't blame IT is all.

[alldaboston]

thanks everyone-seems danny put together a playoff team for nothing from nothing--THE BIG QUESTION was the lttle guy worth winslow or draft position-

If IT was tank benched after his back injury and Smart held out after ankle C's would have missed playoffs and got Winslow. Blame the playoff push not IT.

Why are we still obsessing that we didnt get winslow? he wouldnt have gotten to play as much with us, with Evan still here and Jae being a beast. And he has shown no flashes of scoring potential, something we desperately need. I get his defense is good, but haven't we had enough times this season where we field an offensively inept lineup?

I'm saying don't blame IT is all.

right i get that, i guess i was kind of just letting out my rage at those who still wanted us to tank it for winslow.

[ThePaintedArea]

thanks everyone-seems danny put together a playoff team for nothing from nothing--THE BIG QUESTION was the lttle guy worth winslow or draft position-

Yes.  The Boston Celtics are about winning.  Building a winning culture is a lot bigger than the difference between the sixteenth and the eighth pick or whatever.  Fighting for survival with the best team in the East in playoff mode - and losing - was the best thing that this team could have done for their future.

Pat Riley, when asked if he would coach a college team, said no.  "There isn't enough misery."  I get it - grown men putting everything at stake to be called the best in the world.  That's what this is about.  Teams have to deal with adversity, learn how to help each other win (I'm so skeptical about DeMarcus...), how to go beyond their accustomed effort.

God I hate hearing people say a team should "take a step back" - especially Boston Celtics fans! Yes, there will be ups and downs (few lower than last week's pair of debacles), but don't let the downs blind you to the specialness of this team. 

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

[rollie mass]

in a way i instigated this dialogue to show what a great job danny and brad did last year
 as i followed winslow from summer league to his insertion to miami lineup
the question of isaiah being worth it, i  brought up to shine the light on isaiah and what he brought to last years season and the current one
isaiah is gifted beyond the league of gifted players, a once in a while athelete that transcends size
i treasure every game isaiah plays for the celts and his magical display of talent
as to winslow a 19 year old in a mans physique -it wasn't meant to be--
there will be more winslow types but to get a star of isaiah's caliber that comes along so rarely
isaiah is mesmerizing and dominating
 a blend of strength ,speed,agility,vertical,change of directions, hesitations,speeds ,bursts,agility,change of pace,dribbling skills,balance,drive, toughness,court sense,vision touch,,shooting ability all in a 5-9package

[rollie mass]

just went back and reviewed tiny archibald and bob cousy-i was graced as a high school player to have played against cousy
but it was amazing watching black and white with cousy talking about transition and creativity being the center of basketball unlike football
read and react and transition game was secret of the boston dynasty
now ainge is easier to figure out and why he looks for certain types of players-this small ball is nothing new tommy did it years ago-