What would it take to get Nerlens Noel?

[LarBrd33]

LB, you keep bringing up things in the past, but situations and player values are fluid. Okafor does not have the same value now as he did after winning the title. At this level, some of the issues that people thought would limit have come to fruition. There is concern on whether he is athletic enough, can defend his position, can defend the pnr, and if he can be part of an offense where he isn't the focal point of it.

So Pelton and Ford (impartial opinion) this week have ranked your two golden boys as part of rookie and sophmore based on future potential. What did they have?

* Both have Smart ahead of Noel
* Both have Noel #8
* Ford has Okafor #10
* Pelton has Okafor #8

Nice tank!

Neato Eddie... if Okafor's no longer valuable 30 games into a career averaging 17.3 points 8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks on 46%/72% shooting... What's that say about Smart's current value 78 games into a career averaging 8 points, 3.1 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 1.5 steals with 36%/32%/65% shooting?

They both have nice potential... but if we're going to claim Okafor is no longer as valuable as he was on draft night 2015, why are we going to pretend like Smart is as valuable as he was before he was drafted?   

And if Okafor was MORE valuable before being drafted... I'm still not seeing the logic in why Marcus SMart would have been equal value for him on draft night and why Nerlens Noel would have been worth a #16 pick.   That offer never actually happened.   More likely we offered Smart + #16 + #28 + future picks for #3 and Philly said, "nah". 

I'd be willing to trade Smart for either Okafor or Noel.  I'm just assuming Noel is more available... but maybe Okafor is the one that will be moved. 

[CelticSince83]

Would anyone trade Marcus Smart for Jahil Oakfor?

I would. 

[Eddie20]

LB, you keep bringing up things in the past, but situations and player values are fluid. Okafor does not have the same value now as he did after winning the title. At this level, some of the issues that people thought would limit have come to fruition. There is concern on whether he is athletic enough, can defend his position, can defend the pnr, and if he can be part of an offense where he isn't the focal point of it.

So Pelton and Ford (impartial opinion) this week have ranked your two golden boys as part of rookie and sophmore based on future potential. What did they have?

* Both have Smart ahead of Noel
* Both have Noel #8
* Ford has Okafor #10
* Pelton has Okafor #8

Nice tank!

Neato Eddie... if Okafor's no longer valuable 30 games into a career averaging 17.3 points 8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks on 46%/72% shooting... What's that say about Smart's current value 78 games into a career averaging 8 points, 3.1 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 1.5 steals with 36%/32%/65% shooting?

They both have nice potential... but if we're going to claim Okafor is no longer as valuable as he was on draft night 2015, why are we going to pretend like Smart is as valuable as he was before he was drafted?   

And if Okafor was MORE valuable before being drafted... I'm still not seeing the logic in why Marcus SMart would have been equal value for him on draft night and why Nerlens Noel would have been worth a #16 pick.   That offer never actually happened.   More likely we offered Smart + #16 + #28 + future picks for #3 and Philly said, "nah".

Can you stop focusing on rumor(s), one that you pick and choose which you believe. Who cares? They won't get anything close to the offer you believe for Okafor.

Where Ford and Pelton have them ranked based on upside is a lot different than were you do. Don't be upset. You should be used to being wrong by now.

[MJohnnyboy]

Don't you guys feel Noel is a bit overrated on this forum?

I think he's oddly underrated.  I think it's a combo of him being from Mass and him playing for the 76ers.  He's a top-level prospect and there's some people on this forum who want to compare him to (insert random role player).

Funny, I would say that is exactly the case with you and Marcus Smart. Despite that many here are very high on the guy's potential, you persist that he'll be nothing more than Tony Allen.

Is anyone besides me seeing the irony here?

[Ilikesports17]

Would anyone trade Marcus Smart for Jahil Oakfor?

That's what makes that bogus "Smart + #16 for #3 + Noel" rumor so absurd.

There's no rational basketball mind that would conceivably have Marcus Smart as equal trade value for Okafor (the #3 pick) heading into the draft this year.  It's a completely ridiculous concept.   Heading into the draft, we heard reports of Boston prepping a "godfather offer" for the #3 pick if Okafor was available that would have included Marcus Smart and multiple picks.  We know that Boston was ready to give up 6 draft picks (4 first rounders including a Brooklyn 1st) just to move up to #9...  Are you seriously telling me that Ainge felt Marcus SMart alone was enough for Okafor?  C'mon...

And then the second half of that trade... the #16 pick for Nerlens Noel?... a guy who was widely seen as the 2nd or 3rd best rookie last year?   THat's just a straight-up insult offer.   Even if your opinion of NOel is dirt low, you have to admit that's a completely ridiculous offer.  The #16 pick for a kid some felt was the rookie of the year?  C'mon...

I don't believe Ainge actually offered Smart + #16 for #3 and Noel.  Bill Simmons said that trade rumor was a joke.  Media (particularly Boston-based) ran with it and it showed up in a few blogs, but if that was really Ainge's offer, he's a troll. 

What we do know is that Brian Windhorst was on ESPN Sportscenter Thursday morning before the draft and mentioned Boston prepping a "monster offer" if Okafor slipped:

Okafor had been under consideration for the top pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Los Angeles Lakers at No. 2. Should he get past them, Windhorst said the Celtics, with a bevy of assets, including the 16th and 28th picks tonight and future picks, will try to entice Philly with a monster package.
...
Windhorst said NBA executives that he's talked to think Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge will make "a Godfather offer" - one that can't be refused - to the Sixers for Okafor. Windhorst mentioned Celtics point guard Marcus Smart being included in the offer.

So on one hand you have a plausible offer of Marcus SMart, #16, #28 and "future picks" for Okafor...

On the other hand you have a rumor (cited as a joke by Simmons) that suggests we made an insult offer of Smart + #16 for #3 and Noel.

I tend to think the first offer is more in line with what we actually offered.   Smart + #16 + #28 + other picks.   Considering we were offering #16 + #28 + Brooklyn 1st + another 1st + two more 2nds just to move up to #9, it's totally plausible that we threw in Smart to try to get Okafor at #3. 

Fans who want to dump on anything non-Celtic related will continue to cite the bogus Smart + #16 for Okafor and Noel rumor, but it lacks plausibility.  That's a bridge-burning type of trade offer if Ainge made that.

The only tangible "this offer was made" rumor regarding the sixers was the smart for Noel and Jahlil one. I think it was outrageous, it probably wasn't actually offered but the fact is that it was much more widely reported than your rumor you just mentioned.

That is not nearly enough evidence to say that the celtics offered smart 16 28 and then some to get okafor at 3.

I may be wrong but k seem to remember hearing Danny say that they began targeting picks at #4 all the way through till Miami.

You can't just take one rumor and call it fact when it really is not very tangible at all

[MJohnnyboy]

If Philly continues to play well without Okafor, then it may be time to decide to trade one of him or Noel since it's been abundantly clear so far that the two of them don't play well together.

The Celtics do have the assets to acquire either of them. It's a matter of who Philly is willing to part with, who they would want in return, and whether or not they would pull the trigger.

[LarBrd33]

LB, you keep bringing up things in the past, but situations and player values are fluid. Okafor does not have the same value now as he did after winning the title. At this level, some of the issues that people thought would limit have come to fruition. There is concern on whether he is athletic enough, can defend his position, can defend the pnr, and if he can be part of an offense where he isn't the focal point of it.

So Pelton and Ford (impartial opinion) this week have ranked your two golden boys as part of rookie and sophmore based on future potential. What did they have?

* Both have Smart ahead of Noel
* Both have Noel #8
* Ford has Okafor #10
* Pelton has Okafor #8

Nice tank!

Neato Eddie... if Okafor's no longer valuable 30 games into a career averaging 17.3 points 8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks on 46%/72% shooting... What's that say about Smart's current value 78 games into a career averaging 8 points, 3.1 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 1.5 steals with 36%/32%/65% shooting?

They both have nice potential... but if we're going to claim Okafor is no longer as valuable as he was on draft night 2015, why are we going to pretend like Smart is as valuable as he was before he was drafted?   

And if Okafor was MORE valuable before being drafted... I'm still not seeing the logic in why Marcus SMart would have been equal value for him on draft night and why Nerlens Noel would have been worth a #16 pick.   That offer never actually happened.   More likely we offered Smart + #16 + #28 + future picks for #3 and Philly said, "nah".

Can you stop focusing on rumor(s), one that you pick and choose which you believe. Who cares? They won't get anything close to the offer you believe for Okafor.

Where Ford and Pelton have them ranked based on upside if a lot different than were you do. Don't be upset. You should be used to be wrong by now.

It's a shame Pelton and FOrd don't run Philly, I guess.  Smart for Noel and a 2nd.  Lock it in, boys.

[LarBrd33]

Don't you guys feel Noel is a bit overrated on this forum?

I think he's oddly underrated.  I think it's a combo of him being from Mass and him playing for the 76ers.  He's a top-level prospect and there's some people on this forum who want to compare him to (insert random role player).

Funny, I would say that is exactly the case with you and Marcus Smart. Despite that many here are very high on the guy's potential, you persist that he'll be nothing more than Tony Allen.

Is anyone besides me seeing the irony here?

I mean let's be honest... we could sign Chris Udofia and many here would be very high on his potential.   

ANd I don't expect Smart to be Tony Allen long-term.  My hope is that he develops a Rodney Stuckey-esque offensive game eventually.   I still think Noel is the better gamble right now.  That doesn't mean NOel is a lock to be a better player. 

[MJohnnyboy]

Don't you guys feel Noel is a bit overrated on this forum?

I think he's oddly underrated.  I think it's a combo of him being from Mass and him playing for the 76ers.  He's a top-level prospect and there's some people on this forum who want to compare him to (insert random role player).

Funny, I would say that is exactly the case with you and Marcus Smart. Despite that many here are very high on the guy's potential, you persist that he'll be nothing more than Tony Allen.

Is anyone besides me seeing the irony here?

I mean let's be honest... we could sign Chris Udofia and many here would be very high on his potential.

Are many very high on Jared Sullinger's potential?

[LarBrd33]

Don't you guys feel Noel is a bit overrated on this forum?

I think he's oddly underrated.  I think it's a combo of him being from Mass and him playing for the 76ers.  He's a top-level prospect and there's some people on this forum who want to compare him to (insert random role player).

Funny, I would say that is exactly the case with you and Marcus Smart. Despite that many here are very high on the guy's potential, you persist that he'll be nothing more than Tony Allen.

Is anyone besides me seeing the irony here?

I mean let's be honest... we could sign Chris Udofia and many here would be very high on his potential.

Are many very high on Jared Sullinger's potential?

yes

Especially in his first couple years.

[Eddie20]

LB, you keep bringing up things in the past, but situations and player values are fluid. Okafor does not have the same value now as he did after winning the title. At this level, some of the issues that people thought would limit have come to fruition. There is concern on whether he is athletic enough, can defend his position, can defend the pnr, and if he can be part of an offense where he isn't the focal point of it.

So Pelton and Ford (impartial opinion) this week have ranked your two golden boys as part of rookie and sophmore based on future potential. What did they have?

* Both have Smart ahead of Noel
* Both have Noel #8
* Ford has Okafor #10
* Pelton has Okafor #8

Nice tank!

Neato Eddie... if Okafor's no longer valuable 30 games into a career averaging 17.3 points 8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks on 46%/72% shooting... What's that say about Smart's current value 78 games into a career averaging 8 points, 3.1 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 1.5 steals with 36%/32%/65% shooting?

They both have nice potential... but if we're going to claim Okafor is no longer as valuable as he was on draft night 2015, why are we going to pretend like Smart is as valuable as he was before he was drafted?   

And if Okafor was MORE valuable before being drafted... I'm still not seeing the logic in why Marcus SMart would have been equal value for him on draft night and why Nerlens Noel would have been worth a #16 pick.   That offer never actually happened.   More likely we offered Smart + #16 + #28 + future picks for #3 and Philly said, "nah".

Can you stop focusing on rumor(s), one that you pick and choose which you believe. Who cares? They won't get anything close to the offer you believe for Okafor.

Where Ford and Pelton have them ranked based on upside if a lot different than were you do. Don't be upset. You should be used to be wrong by now.

It's a shame Pelton and FOrd don't run Philly, I guess.  Smart for Noel and a 2nd.  Lock it in, boys.

Could they do worse? Does it get worse than the awful franchise you love so much? I mean 3 1/2 years into tanking and they have a starting lineup of:

Ish Smith
Isaiah Cannan
Robert Covington
Jerami Grant
Nerlens Noel

[LarBrd33]

LB, you keep bringing up things in the past, but situations and player values are fluid. Okafor does not have the same value now as he did after winning the title. At this level, some of the issues that people thought would limit have come to fruition. There is concern on whether he is athletic enough, can defend his position, can defend the pnr, and if he can be part of an offense where he isn't the focal point of it.

So Pelton and Ford (impartial opinion) this week have ranked your two golden boys as part of rookie and sophmore based on future potential. What did they have?

* Both have Smart ahead of Noel
* Both have Noel #8
* Ford has Okafor #10
* Pelton has Okafor #8

Nice tank!

Neato Eddie... if Okafor's no longer valuable 30 games into a career averaging 17.3 points 8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks on 46%/72% shooting... What's that say about Smart's current value 78 games into a career averaging 8 points, 3.1 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 1.5 steals with 36%/32%/65% shooting?

They both have nice potential... but if we're going to claim Okafor is no longer as valuable as he was on draft night 2015, why are we going to pretend like Smart is as valuable as he was before he was drafted?   

And if Okafor was MORE valuable before being drafted... I'm still not seeing the logic in why Marcus SMart would have been equal value for him on draft night and why Nerlens Noel would have been worth a #16 pick.   That offer never actually happened.   More likely we offered Smart + #16 + #28 + future picks for #3 and Philly said, "nah".

Can you stop focusing on rumor(s), one that you pick and choose which you believe. Who cares? They won't get anything close to the offer you believe for Okafor.

Where Ford and Pelton have them ranked based on upside if a lot different than were you do. Don't be upset. You should be used to be wrong by now.

It's a shame Pelton and FOrd don't run Philly, I guess.  Smart for Noel and a 2nd.  Lock it in, boys.

Could they do worse? Does it get worse than the awful franchise you love so much? I mean 3 1/2 years into tanking and they have a starting lineup of:

Ish Smith
Isaiah Cannan
Robert Covington
Jerami Grant
Nerlens Noel

I'm going to guess that about 5 of their top 6 players next year aren't on their roster right now. 

[tazzmaniac]

LB, you keep bringing up things in the past, but situations and player values are fluid. Okafor does not have the same value now as he did after winning the title. At this level, some of the issues that people thought would limit have come to fruition. There is concern on whether he is athletic enough, can defend his position, can defend the pnr, and if he can be part of an offense where he isn't the focal point of it.

So Pelton and Ford (impartial opinion) this week have ranked your two golden boys as part of rookie and sophmore based on future potential. What did they have?

* Both have Smart ahead of Noel
* Both have Noel #8
* Ford has Okafor #10
* Pelton has Okafor #8

Nice tank!

Neato Eddie... if Okafor's no longer valuable 30 games into a career averaging 17.3 points 8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks on 46%/72% shooting... What's that say about Smart's current value 78 games into a career averaging 8 points, 3.1 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 1.5 steals with 36%/32%/65% shooting?

They both have nice potential... but if we're going to claim Okafor is no longer as valuable as he was on draft night 2015, why are we going to pretend like Smart is as valuable as he was before he was drafted?   

And if Okafor was MORE valuable before being drafted... I'm still not seeing the logic in why Marcus SMart would have been equal value for him on draft night and why Nerlens Noel would have been worth a #16 pick.   That offer never actually happened.   More likely we offered Smart + #16 + #28 + future picks for #3 and Philly said, "nah".

Can you stop focusing on rumor(s), one that you pick and choose which you believe. Who cares? They won't get anything close to the offer you believe for Okafor.

Where Ford and Pelton have them ranked based on upside if a lot different than were you do. Don't be upset. You should be used to be wrong by now.

It's a shame Pelton and FOrd don't run Philly, I guess.  Smart for Noel and a 2nd.  Lock it in, boys.

Could they do worse? Does it get worse than the awful franchise you love so much? I mean 3 1/2 years into tanking and they have a starting lineup of:

Ish Smith
Isaiah Cannan
Robert Covington
Jerami Grant
Nerlens Noel

The Sixers are just 2.5 years into tanking not 3.5 years.  They need to finish up the process by out tanking the Lakers to maximize their odds at getting Simmons or Ingram.  Adding one of them with Okafor, Noel, Embiid and Saric is a good set of young players to rebuild with.   

[Hemingway]

If they wanted to trade one of their young guys wouldn't it make sense for them to get back someone more established than Smart? They've got to really try to be a winning team next year to justify this whole tank. They can see the same opportunity cost of not getting good soon with the rising caps that everyone else can see.

If we do want to trade Smart, I think we need to wait until he mproves a bit more to maximize our return. I'm confident that he will get a lot better but right now I think we would be selling low on him as he is just back from injury.

[wiley]

The only possible way to get Noel is to do this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zn6a9bo, which requires giving up this year's Brooklyn pick and the Celtics or Mavs pick, plus a future Brooklyn pick.  Also, the Sixers would get back pick #31. 

Rozier, Augustin
Hunter, Roberson
Crowder, Durant, Roberson, Jerebko
Durant, KO, Mickey, Jerebko, Landry, Lee
Noel, Amir, KO

I don't like it.  Nope.  Getting Noel just isn't possible without ruining the team and giving up the farm.