Well the "buy low" window might be closing a tiny bit. Ever since ish smith was brought back, Noel has looked fantastic. They have actually won a couple games.
Noel's last 3 games since Ish took over at PG: 14 points 11 rebounds 2 blocks 3 steals beating the suns ... 18 points 6 rebounds 5 blocks 2 steals in a 4 point loss to utah. Then tonight he had 20 points 9 rebounds 4 steals in 26 minutes beating the Kings...
It's a noticeable improvement similar to how Noel played last year when ish smith was there (14 points 11 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, 2.5 steals)... Part of that clearly has to do with Okafor being out and Noel being able to play minutes at his natural center position. The Ish Smith thing also backs up the comments from analysts like David Thorpe who have suggested that Noel would be a lot better surrounded with real NBA talent. It's not like Ish Smith is a star point guard... But the difference between Noel with and without a quasi NBA player running point is pretty stunning. Imagine what he could do on a real basketball team with a legitimate starting point guard?
I think the idea that Noel has "regressed" is faulty. He's been injured, played out of position and hasn't had a point guard. These last 3 games back up the long standing belief that Noel hasn't been put in a position to succeed this year. He's still got a huge future as a dominant defender and his offense may have actually improved a little. No, he can't shoot jump shots and isn't going to be a great power forward, but that wasn't his role last year and that shouldn't be his role heading forward. It's still clear that unless they want to have Okafor continue to come off the bench or try playing Okafor at power forward, Noel is going to need to be separated from him to be successful.
Interestingly enough, it seems even philly media is on board with moving Noel at this point... Knowing that they have Okafor and very possibly a healthy embiid next year. This article is from earlier today before another ish/noel philly win, but should still be relevant. They suggested the team needed a quality guard prospect to build around and our very own Marcus smart made the bottom of the list of desired assets (behind Schroeder, oladipo and lavine): http://mobile.philly.com/sports/sixers/?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=363871081
Around the 2015 draft, there were rumors that Boston general manager Danny Ainge offered Smart and two first-round picks to the Sixers for Noel.
In hindsight, it is too bad they did not accept.
The return might not be as big now, but it is certainly worth a call to see if Ainge is still interested.
The Celtics have big dollars committed to point guard Isaiah Thomas, 26, through the 2017-18 season.
Smart, who has just returned after missing 18 games with a knee injury, might still be expendable.
Ainge is primarily looking for a go-to scorer, so, even if he no longer wanted Noel for the Celtics, Noel is still has value as the kind of young, athletic big man who can be packaged with first-round picks, of which Boston has four in 2016, in a bigger deal.
Of many pressing needs, the Sixers' biggest is a high-ceiling point guard. In only his second season, Smart (career 8.0 points, 3.1 assists, 3.4 rebounds) still fits that profile.
I would offer Noel and throw-ins to complete a deal. You might even still squeeze a first-round pick out of Boston.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20151231_Sixers_need_to_make_a_deal__and_Noel_could_be_a_key_piece.html#e8iMmQ53PYAVX5mo.99
Man, I don't mean to keep laying into you, but it's absolutely amazing how you have two different standards for Celtics players versus other teams' players (or at least players who you dislike versus who you like). Smart has had just as many contextual factors, if not more, affecting his play this year as Noel, e.g. injuries, team philosophy, much better team, etc., yet you constantly say he hasn't improved, which you claim means he's just going to top out as a "defensive role player," as you like to call it. How in the hell is it fair that you say one judgment is faulty, but then use that very same reasoning to disparage another player??
Smart has been given every opportunity to shine at his natural position. Ever since mid season last year he's had a chance to step up. Aside from one game against OKC, he has been garbage on offense. He likely has lost his starting role barring injury.
Yes, Noel is a poor offensive player too... But you need offense from your point guard in this league. You can get away with having a defensive center. I don't care how "small" the league is getting. Having an elite rim protector is exponentially more valuable than having an elite guard defender. Ben Wallace in his prime will always be more valuable than tony Allen in his prime. Reason: basketball.
The Marcus smart example is a poor one. I'm not ignoring what's happening with the Celtics. If you want a more accurate comparison, look at our bench. When I say Noel hasn't regressed, I'd say the same about Tyler zeller or Kelly olynyk. Those guys haven't "regressed". Their role has changed. If Sullinger was exclusively played at small forward for a season, I wouldn't suggest he's "regressed". These last few games with Noel playing his natural center position with ish smith basically prove he's going to be fine. It's easy to dismiss it as a small sample size unless you acknowledge what has gone on in Philly this year. Okafor is a great prospect but he plays the same position. They have asked Noel to play a different position next to Okafor and it hasn't worked. If Marcus smart was playing all his minutes this year at power forward, maybe I'd give him more of a pass.
So essentially you just did exactly what I stated, i.e. you weighted the contextual factors different to give the edge to your guy while discrediting the other relevant contextual factors. Got it.
Smart has played in 11 games so far this year, three or four of which he's been limited in minutes played due to recovering from injury. He also plays on a team that is much better than Philly with six times as many wins, a stricter team-oriented philosophy, and a smaller role in the offense due to not playing with 75% D-Leaguers. These are contextual factors that are just as relevant as Noel playing out of position, but of course you deny them because they don't fit your narrative that you're trying to sell. Objectivity is hard.
I would bet big money that Smart's offensive numbers, outside of fg%, would dwarf Norl's numbers if he was playing for Philly right now.
welcome to the world of lb. now wait for him to either deny he does so, or, move the goal posts. i suggest you stop this particular discussion since lb is not about to change.
In a nutshell.
Maybe he's upset that after 3 1/2 years of misery their best player is named Ish Smith.
Being wrong in a group doesn't make you right. I'm not going to sway my opinion based on some ribbledizzydanking from a mob of forum fizzlebiscuits. Those who follow the league understand Noel's value. No amount of nonsensical blatherblasting is going to change the reality of Noel's value. Like that Philly article said, ainge was rumored to have offered smart + two 1sts for Noel. Maybe philly will take a little less now. I suspect they will have options outside of Boston. Id sure love Noel here though.
I can't find that article. Could you link it?
The rumors I can remember were Marcus was included in a deal for Noel AND #3 pick
bill Simmons says that rumor was a joke. There was another rumor that we offered smart and two 1sts for Noel. Check the Philly article I linked to on the previous page where they suggest it's time to move Noel and list smart as one of the possible targets (along with shroeder, oladipo and lavine).
Not sure how I missed the article.
Anyway if you google smart and 2 first for Noel you get a ton of links about the Noel and #3 trade but none about the Noel for smart + a first trade.
I don't think there was ever serious discussion between the two. I wouldn't be surprised if Boston called up and said hey can we have Noel and #3 we'd give smart and 2#1s in exchange and philly said no no no take #3 out of the deal and we can talk and Danny said never mind have a nice day.
Anyway, the point remains that the philly writer thinks Noel is worth slightly less than smart and 1st and hopes that he could squeeze smart and a 1 for Noel.
All this suggests that Noel and Marcus have similar trade values. I think this is true.
Noel I think in a vacuum has a higher trade value but philly lacks leverage as he has proven he can't play with okafor and I think ainge values smart very highly if for no other reason then the now sunk cost of having had to suck for a year to get him.
Basically I'd say that whoever is running Philly values Noel in the same ballpark as Danny values Marcus:
Topic: What would it take to get Nerlens Noel? (Read 47680 times)