What would it take to get Nerlens Noel?

[MBunge]

I don't see why the Sixers wouldn't take Smart for Noel. He gives them what they need while a pack is just a crapshoot.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure that any discussion about Nerlens Noel starts with Marcus Smart AND one of the Brooklyn picks. Folks around here massively overvalue Smart.

And other folks massively overvalue Noel.  Philly would ask for something like the Nets pick this year for Noel, so that is what it would take to get him.  But no team would give up anything close to that.

I'm sure Ainge and every other GM in the league likes Noel's potential but they also recognize in his regression this year that he's a role player at best.

Mike

I don't think a Brooklyn pick would be required, but do think it would take Smart plus other things.  I don't think those other things need to be super high value assets, but I just don't see Smart as enough.

The question isn't what is fair value for Noel, it's what it would take to get him.  Right now, they're not trading him for anything less than something like the Nets pick in the next draft. That will change eventually, especially if Embiid can play, but not now.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

If Noel and Okafor doesn't work how can any combo between the three of Embid, Noel and Okafor work. It's a mess for 76ers which is why they brought in help for Hinkie. I'd try to move Noel and Embid ASAP

Move Okafor or Noel to the bench and hope Embiid is not a complete dud when he needs to play the 4?

[jpotter33]

I don't know but I will tell you this.  Philly is in a must sell position therefore they are not going to get full value.

Exactly. It was stupid to think they could develop and trade three potential franchise bigs who can only play the center position. Playing Noel out of position shows their hand and how bad they need to trade him.

It doesn't show anything like this, it only shows that he's the best PF on the roster. I mean, their other options are what, Richaun Holmes and the calcified remains of the player that was once Carl Landry?

But that's exactly the problem. They have three bigs with tons of potential, but they're all centers who can't play the four spot. Yeah, I'd play him at the four right now, too, because he is their best option. However, just because he's their best option doesn't mean he's good at all at that spot, only that he's better than the other flotsam power forwards that they have. Do you think he's legitimately a long-term starting four on a good team, or is he just playing that spot right now due to the roster crunch at the center position with Embiid and Okafor?

[jpotter33]

I don't see why the Sixers wouldn't take Smart for Noel. He gives them what they need while a pack is just a crapshoot.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure that any discussion about Nerlens Noel starts with Marcus Smart AND one of the Brooklyn picks. Folks around here massively overvalue Smart.

And other folks massively overvalue Noel.  Philly would ask for something like the Nets pick this year for Noel, so that is what it would take to get him.  But no team would give up anything close to that.

I'm sure Ainge and every other GM in the league likes Noel's potential but they also recognize in his regression this year that he's a role player at best.

Mike

I don't think a Brooklyn pick would be required, but do think it would take Smart plus other things.  I don't think those other things need to be super high value assets, but I just don't see Smart as enough. 

So probably something like Noel + 2nd round pick for Smart + Zeller... something along those lines is how you'd value it?

No, I don't see them sending away a draft pick or having a need for Zeller.  Noel for Smart and KO seems to be in the range.

That's on overpay. He's looked horrible this year playing out of position, and everyone in the league knows that they have to end up trading Noel. And it's not as simple as just waiting it out for the best option, because the problem will only be exacerbated once Embiid comes back. Thus, there's no way they're getting full value for him. Also, if we get Noel then I want KO next to him to spread the floor, which means KO is out for me for any Noel trade we make.

And we'd be stupid to trade Smart right now. His value is about as low as it can be coming off of this injury, so we'd need to let him get back healthy and playing towards the deadline at the very least. Outside of his shooting, Smart has looked phenomenal this year, and I think most people (including me) see Smart having a higher ceiling as a two-way player than Noel. Granted, being a defensive center Noel's floor is higher than Smart's, but does anyone really think that Smart is not going to get any better in his career?

They could end up trading Okafor or Embiid.  No reason they have to move Noel.  Perhaps they would rather go with Noel and Embiid than Embiid and Okafor. 

What you say about Smart applies to Noel as well?  I mean Noel is younger than Smart and he has shown improvement in certain aspects (he is shooing better than 5% better from 3 to 10 feet this year, despite playing with Okafor has actually improved his RB%, getting to the line more, and other improvement like that).  It isn't only Boston's young players that get better.

Unless Embiid totally falls off the face of the Earth, becomes Greg Oden 2.0, won't command max money, and will be a bench player, they're going to have to trade two of those three players, because none of them can legitimately play the four long-term on a good team or with each other. That's just a fact; no two of those three can play together full-time. If all three are healthy and develop how they should, they're all max-level players making max money. You're not going to pay that kind of money to three or even two centers that can't share the floor together.

[ssspence]

I don't see why the Sixers wouldn't take Smart for Noel. He gives them what they need while a pack is just a crapshoot.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure that any discussion about Nerlens Noel starts with Marcus Smart AND one of the Brooklyn picks. Folks around here massively overvalue Smart.

And other folks massively overvalue Noel.  Philly would ask for something like the Nets pick this year for Noel, so that is what it would take to get him.  But no team would give up anything close to that.

I'm sure Ainge and every other GM in the league likes Noel's potential but they also recognize in his regression this year that he's a role player at best.

Mike

I don't think a Brooklyn pick would be required, but do think it would take Smart plus other things.  I don't think those other things need to be super high value assets, but I just don't see Smart as enough. 

So probably something like Noel + 2nd round pick for Smart + Zeller... something along those lines is how you'd value it?

No, I don't see them sending away a draft pick or having a need for Zeller.  Noel for Smart and KO seems to be in the range.

So now you're throwing in Olynyk? I believe strongly that of all the Cs on rookie contracts, KO is the least likely to be traded. Ainge absolutely loves him.

Meanwhile, you trade for a guy like Noel because he fits with Kelly.

[Moranis]

I don't see why the Sixers wouldn't take Smart for Noel. He gives them what they need while a pack is just a crapshoot.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure that any discussion about Nerlens Noel starts with Marcus Smart AND one of the Brooklyn picks. Folks around here massively overvalue Smart.

And other folks massively overvalue Noel.  Philly would ask for something like the Nets pick this year for Noel, so that is what it would take to get him.  But no team would give up anything close to that.

I'm sure Ainge and every other GM in the league likes Noel's potential but they also recognize in his regression this year that he's a role player at best.

Mike

I don't think a Brooklyn pick would be required, but do think it would take Smart plus other things.  I don't think those other things need to be super high value assets, but I just don't see Smart as enough. 

So probably something like Noel + 2nd round pick for Smart + Zeller... something along those lines is how you'd value it?

No, I don't see them sending away a draft pick or having a need for Zeller.  Noel for Smart and KO seems to be in the range.

So now you're throwing in Olynyk? I believe strongly that of all the Cs on rookie contracts, KO is the least likely to be traded. Ainge absolutely loves him.

Meanwhile, you trade for a guy like Noel because he fits with Kelly.

He fits with Sullinger.

[Csfan1984]

If Noel and Okafor doesn't work how can any combo between the three of Embid, Noel and Okafor work. It's a mess for 76ers which is why they brought in help for Hinkie. I'd try to move Noel and Embid ASAP

Move Okafor or Noel to the bench and hope Embiid is not a complete dud when he needs to play the 4?

I would definitely do that for starters. Noel is just losing value playing poorly at the 4. Still can't expect anything from Embid at the 4 especially when small ball is trending.  They need to take a deal like Rozier, KO and 2017 Nets pick or wait till draft night and try and get a 9-12 selected player for Noel. It's like MCW deal sooner they move on the better.

[ssspence]

I don't see why the Sixers wouldn't take Smart for Noel. He gives them what they need while a pack is just a crapshoot.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure that any discussion about Nerlens Noel starts with Marcus Smart AND one of the Brooklyn picks. Folks around here massively overvalue Smart.

And other folks massively overvalue Noel.  Philly would ask for something like the Nets pick this year for Noel, so that is what it would take to get him.  But no team would give up anything close to that.

I'm sure Ainge and every other GM in the league likes Noel's potential but they also recognize in his regression this year that he's a role player at best.

Mike

I don't think a Brooklyn pick would be required, but do think it would take Smart plus other things.  I don't think those other things need to be super high value assets, but I just don't see Smart as enough. 

So probably something like Noel + 2nd round pick for Smart + Zeller... something along those lines is how you'd value it?

No, I don't see them sending away a draft pick or having a need for Zeller.  Noel for Smart and KO seems to be in the range.

So now you're throwing in Olynyk? I believe strongly that of all the Cs on rookie contracts, KO is the least likely to be traded. Ainge absolutely loves him.

Meanwhile, you trade for a guy like Noel because he fits with Kelly.

He fits with Sullinger.

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, but I'm also not sure how you figured there's "no need for Zeller" but they'd add Olynyk instead. If you think the Cs (or the NBA) values Zeller over Olynyk, I'd say it's fair to question your judgement.

[BornReady]

Despite Noel poor play , Philly will still think highly for him
He's poor play more has to do with sharing the frontcourt with Okafor

Their team is a mess
And choosing 3 C highly with their draft picks makes matters worse
They will probably trade Noel and embiid and keep Okafor as he is the safest bet so far

Noel + stauskas + marshall   = Smart + Bradley + olynyk + Memphis 1st rounder

This trade removes some of their front court logjam and improves their backcourt immediately
By giving olynyk it provides spacing for Okafor and a young player with some potential

Smart is a young player with potential. Didn't want to trade him but Judging by ainge willing to let smart go in a similar trade and drafting rozier, chances are he isn't that high on smart being the future PG. or sees Noel as being more value.

Bradley is a good player and a vet that can help mentor the young players. Didn't want to trade him but Had to include at least 1 good vet for them as that is what they need.

Memphis 1st rounder thrown in as they would expect at least 1 first rounder for Noel and I didn't want to trade a Brooklyn pick as well as them already having plenty of picks next year.


Celtics gain Noel as a rim protector and player with potential
This immediately fixes our front court and stabilises their playing time
Fixes the logjam in the back court So we can play young, hunter and rozier more mins

[Khelsier]

Why do so many people here overvalue Noel so hard? Is it because he is from Massachusetts? So far he has had half a good season. This year he has regressed. I know he plays out of position at PF and playing with Okafor does not help him at all. It just seems to me that the Sixers few Okafor as the better prospect and his trade value is sinking.
I really do not have anything against that guy. I think he will be a really good defender and it would be nice to have him playing for the Celtics. But giving up such a price like the BRK 16 is a head scratcher for me. That kind of asset is only dealt away for a (potential) super star. Can we all agree that he is not? Am I that wrong about him? Am I undervaluing him so hard?
Right now I would not deal Smart straight up for him. Sully (maybe one could talk me into including Young, maybe) plus our pick (top 10 protected) and 2 2nds would be as high as I would like to go.

[Khelsier]

Despite Noel poor play , Philly will still think highly for him
He's poor play more has to do with sharing the frontcourt with Okafor

Their team is a mess
And choosing 3 C highly with their draft picks makes matters worse
They will probably trade Noel and embiid and keep Okafor as he is the safest bet so far

Noel + stauskas + marshall   = Smart + Bradley + olynyk + Memphis 1st rounder

This trade removes some of their front court logjam and improves their backcourt immediately
By giving olynyk it provides spacing for Okafor and a young player with some potential

Smart is a young player with potential. Didn't want to trade him but Judging by ainge willing to let smart go in a similar trade and drafting rozier, chances are he isn't that high on smart being the future PG. or sees Noel as being more value.

Bradley is a good player and a vet that can help mentor the young players. Didn't want to trade him but Had to include at least 1 good vet for them as that is what they need.

Memphis 1st rounder thrown in as they would expect at least 1 first rounder for Noel and I didn't want to trade a Brooklyn pick as well as them already having plenty of picks next year.


Celtics gain Noel as a rim protector and player with potential
This immediately fixes our front court and stabilises their playing time
Fixes the logjam in the back court So we can play young, hunter and rozier more mins

Another post that puts Noel into the All Star - superstar catagory. Smart, AB, KO (half our core) and the Memphis 1st for Noel and two guys we might think about releasing on the spot (ok that is a bit hard, but both are not really good players). I just can not see why people are so ready to sell half the house for Noel.

[Evantime34]

I don't know but I will tell you this.  Philly is in a must sell position therefore they are not going to get full value.

Exactly. It was stupid to think they could develop and trade three potential franchise bigs who can only play the center position. Playing Noel out of position shows their hand and how bad they need to trade him.

It doesn't show anything like this, it only shows that he's the best PF on the roster. I mean, their other options are what, Richaun Holmes and the calcified remains of the player that was once Carl Landry?

But that's exactly the problem. They have three bigs with tons of potential, but they're all centers who can't play the four spot. Yeah, I'd play him at the four right now, too, because he is their best option. However, just because he's their best option doesn't mean he's good at all at that spot, only that he's better than the other flotsam power forwards that they have. Do you think he's legitimately a long-term starting four on a good team, or is he just playing that spot right now due to the roster crunch at the center position with Embiid and Okafor?

If Saric comes over he will be a better option than Embiid at the 4. Which further highlights how they have too many guys that play the same position.

[ssspence]

Joel Embiid may yet do some things in his NBA career. Playing the 4 is very unlikely to be one of them.

[jpotter33]

I don't know but I will tell you this.  Philly is in a must sell position therefore they are not going to get full value.

Exactly. It was stupid to think they could develop and trade three potential franchise bigs who can only play the center position. Playing Noel out of position shows their hand and how bad they need to trade him.

It doesn't show anything like this, it only shows that he's the best PF on the roster. I mean, their other options are what, Richaun Holmes and the calcified remains of the player that was once Carl Landry?

But that's exactly the problem. They have three bigs with tons of potential, but they're all centers who can't play the four spot. Yeah, I'd play him at the four right now, too, because he is their best option. However, just because he's their best option doesn't mean he's good at all at that spot, only that he's better than the other flotsam power forwards that they have. Do you think he's legitimately a long-term starting four on a good team, or is he just playing that spot right now due to the roster crunch at the center position with Embiid and Okafor?

If Saric comes over he will be a better option than Embiid at the 4. Which further highlights how they have too many guys that play the same position.

Most people see Simmons as a four rather than a three, as well, so that'd also compound the problem if they got him, especially since he's not really a shooter either.

[Moranis]

I don't see why the Sixers wouldn't take Smart for Noel. He gives them what they need while a pack is just a crapshoot.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure that any discussion about Nerlens Noel starts with Marcus Smart AND one of the Brooklyn picks. Folks around here massively overvalue Smart.

And other folks massively overvalue Noel.  Philly would ask for something like the Nets pick this year for Noel, so that is what it would take to get him.  But no team would give up anything close to that.

I'm sure Ainge and every other GM in the league likes Noel's potential but they also recognize in his regression this year that he's a role player at best.

Mike

I don't think a Brooklyn pick would be required, but do think it would take Smart plus other things.  I don't think those other things need to be super high value assets, but I just don't see Smart as enough. 

So probably something like Noel + 2nd round pick for Smart + Zeller... something along those lines is how you'd value it?

No, I don't see them sending away a draft pick or having a need for Zeller.  Noel for Smart and KO seems to be in the range.

So now you're throwing in Olynyk? I believe strongly that of all the Cs on rookie contracts, KO is the least likely to be traded. Ainge absolutely loves him.

Meanwhile, you trade for a guy like Noel because he fits with Kelly.

He fits with Sullinger.

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, but I'm also not sure how you figured there's "no need for Zeller" but they'd add Olynyk instead. If you think the Cs (or the NBA) values Zeller over Olynyk, I'd say it's fair to question your judgement.

the Sixers have no need for Zeller.  I thought that was pretty obvious