Bobby Portis

[tarheelsxxiii]

Yep, he would. He's buried behind a deep, much better, and well establiahed front court than Boston's. Mickey can't hold his jock... shouldn't use the two names in the same sentence. Rozier was a horrible pick. Expect a re- redo on Smart this year with BKN pick... Kris Dunn. That's all DA is comfortable with.

You can talk all you want about their units being better, etc., etc. but deeper they're not.

Portis wouldn't be getting playing time ahead of Sullinger-Olynyk-Johnson-Zeller add to that Lee and that's 5 players ahead of him depth wise, to say nothing of all the players Stevens uses when going small (Crowder/Jerebko) who'd be getting playing time ahead of Portis.

The reality in all of this, you can think what you want of Portis or how much of a stud he is, but he wouldn't be leap frogging any of these guys unless injuries occurred.

The Celtics bigs are much deeper than Chicago's and even then it took injuries for him to get playing time.

In fact, with all the NBA caliber bigs we have, there wouldn't be room for Portis to dress in the first place to get playing time.

BC, you know I have much respect for you.. didn't mean it as a personal attack. Just think Portis is going to be really good and was shocked at the selection. They're very high on him in CHI

I didn't took it as such, I argue heatedly (comes across more heatedly than I intend to, just the way I talk), no worries hehe And I know that triboy's fanaticism with Mickey sours many on the player. But for all the hyperboles he presents, I do think Mickey should be a player in the NBA right now until shown otherwise. I think his defense alone, in a none-deep bench should assure him a place in a rotation just about anywhere from what I've seen so far from him. But it's all guesswork at this point regardless.

Anyways, the point in all of this is that whatever perceived talent gap there is between Portis or Mickey, we have too many NBA-ready players and veterans already in place to give playing time for a rookie even if he deserves it. That's simply the pecking order of things (and of course other posters would be quick to point out that the reason he's not getting playing time it's because the coach thinks he's not ready to play in the NBA, which I think is the wrong way of looking at things).

All this to say that esteem for a player's skill/talent is not the issue here.

I'll say this though, if Ainge thought enough of him to pick him high in the draft there may have been chances that Ainge doesn't go into free-agency and add two bigs in Johnson and Lee (though Lee is probably inconsequential as he was more valuable than Wallace, and even Johnson's value is in his contract, so maybe even then, so who knows), and maybe in that scenario the chances are increased of him earning a spot in the rotation.

But depth alone makes it too difficult as it is because he'd not be able to dress, and without dressing he doesn't even get a few minutes of playing time in blowouts and what not. Depth is too much of an issue with the Celtics, which really isn't with Chicago. They're more skillful, but the roadblock is thinner.

I mean, Zeller is not playing all that much for us as it is and he's shown that at the very least he can play in the NBA. He's young and it's in our best interest to play him as much as we can going in to free-agency, but still we haven't even as Lee to look as the odd man out.

It's cool, TP. On phone so limited here, but agree Mickey is probably an NBA player eventually..  I just haven't seen anything offensively to suggest he will adapt on that end. Portis has, and not just with 3 ball... but that was a pleasant surprise so soon. Also agree Portis may/may not have cracked rotation by now... big situation here is pretty unusual. But I've been pining for him to crack roster in CHI since preseason. Its been tough there too, thise guys are fixtures in CHI. Should get around 15+ mpg with Noah out for next 2 weeks tho.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Yep, he would. He's buried behind a deep, much better, and well establiahed front court than Boston's. Mickey can't hold his jock... shouldn't use the two names in the same sentence. Rozier was a horrible pick. Expect a re- redo on Smart this year with BKN pick... Kris Dunn. That's all DA is comfortable with.

You can talk all you want about their units being better, etc., etc. but deeper they're not.

Portis wouldn't be getting playing time ahead of Sullinger-Olynyk-Johnson-Zeller add to that Lee and that's 5 players ahead of him depth wise, to say nothing of all the players Stevens uses when going small (Crowder/Jerebko) who'd be getting playing time ahead of Portis.

The reality in all of this, you can think what you want of Portis or how much of a stud he is, but he wouldn't be leap frogging any of these guys unless injuries occurred.

The Celtics bigs are much deeper than Chicago's and even then it took injuries for him to get playing time.

In fact, with all the NBA caliber bigs we have, there wouldn't be room for Portis to dress in the first place to get playing time.

BC, you know I have much respect for you.. didn't mean it as a personal attack. Just think Portis is going to be really good and was shocked at the selection. They're very high on him in CHI

I didn't took it as such, I argue heatedly (comes across more heatedly than I intend to, just the way I talk), no worries hehe And I know that triboy's fanaticism with Mickey sours many on the player. But for all the hyperboles he presents, I do think Mickey should be a player in the NBA right now until shown otherwise. I think his defense alone, in a none-deep bench should assure him a place in a rotation just about anywhere from what I've seen so far from him. But it's all guesswork at this point regardless.

Anyways, the point in all of this is that whatever perceived talent gap there is between Portis or Mickey, we have too many NBA-ready players and veterans already in place to give playing time for a rookie even if he deserves it. That's simply the pecking order of things (and of course other posters would be quick to point out that the reason he's not getting playing time it's because the coach thinks he's not ready to play in the NBA, which I think is the wrong way of looking at things).

All this to say that esteem for a player's skill/talent is not the issue here.

I'll say this though, if Ainge thought enough of him to pick him high in the draft there may have been chances that Ainge doesn't go into free-agency and add two bigs in Johnson and Lee (though Lee is probably inconsequential as he was more valuable than Wallace, and even Johnson's value is in his contract, so maybe even then, so who knows), and maybe in that scenario the chances are increased of him earning a spot in the rotation.

But depth alone makes it too difficult as it is because he'd not be able to dress, and without dressing he doesn't even get a few minutes of playing time in blowouts and what not. Depth is too much of an issue with the Celtics, which really isn't with Chicago. They're more skillful, but the roadblock is thinner.

I mean, Zeller is not playing all that much for us as it is and he's shown that at the very least he can play in the NBA. He's young and it's in our best interest to play him as much as we can going in to free-agency, but still we haven't even as Lee to look as the odd man out.

It's cool, TP. On phone so limited here, but agree Mickey is probably an NBA player eventually..  I just haven't seen anything offensively to suggest he will adapt on that end. Portis has, and not just with 3 ball... but that was a pleasant surprise so soon. Also agree Portis may/may not have cracked rotation by now... big situation here is pretty unusual. But I've been pining for him to crack roster in CHI since preseason. Its been tough there too, thise guys are fixtures in CHI. Should get around 15+ mpg with Noah out for next 2 weeks tho.

Personally I've seen enough of Mickey's shooting touch to think he'd be able to deal. But rookies are rookies, and it's a bit besides the point.

Whether I agree with it or not the pecking order in the NBA almost always rules above all else, preventing players getting on the floor when they should or at least seemingly deserve.

Who knows, I just see just about anyone without experience unable of cracking our rotation.

[cb8883]

Another miss by Ainge. If Portis was a PG he would have been grabbed by Ainge. Ainge hasn't had a good draft in a long time. Should have moved on from him after last season. He has forgotten how to draft. I hope he does the right thing and leaves. Get a guy like Hinkie in here and blow this treadmill squad up. Imagine what Hinkie could do with all of the picks and someone like Thomas who is looking like he could bring back a 1st? I want Ben Simmons on this team next year.

[Eddie20]

Another miss by Ainge. If Portis was a PG he would have been grabbed by Ainge. Ainge hasn't had a good draft in a long time. Should have moved on from him after last season. He has forgotten how to draft. I hope he does the right thing and leaves. Get a guy like Hinkie in here and blow this treadmill squad up. Imagine what Hinkie could do with all of the picks and someone like Thomas who is looking like he could bring back a 1st? I want Ben Simmons on this team next year.

What an awful post. One thought worse than the next.

[jambr380]

Another miss by Ainge. If Portis was a PG he would have been grabbed by Ainge. Ainge hasn't had a good draft in a long time. Should have moved on from him after last season. He has forgotten how to draft. I hope he does the right thing and leaves. Get a guy like Hinkie in here and blow this treadmill squad up. Imagine what Hinkie could do with all of the picks and someone like Thomas who is looking like he could bring back a 1st? I want Ben Simmons on this team next year.

What an awful post. One thought worse than the next.

Do you really not want Simmons on this team next year?? 

[MJohnnyboy]

Another miss by Ainge. If Portis was a PG he would have been grabbed by Ainge. Ainge hasn't had a good draft in a long time. Should have moved on from him after last season. He has forgotten how to draft. I hope he does the right thing and leaves. Get a guy like Hinkie in here and blow this treadmill squad up. Imagine what Hinkie could do with all of the picks and someone like Thomas who is looking like he could bring back a 1st? I want Ben Simmons on this team next year.

Or do us all a favor and go root for the Sixers if you're so miserable following the Celtics.

[rollie mass]

maybe danny drafted rozier in case he had to include smart in a trade for star-rozier must have had some exceptional workouts

[Future Celtics Owner]

Ainge is at fault for even having us pick that late. We should have had a much worse record, but Ainge isnsists on keeping vets and free agents around like we are THE SPURS.

After getting IT he should have waived Bass, Jonas, Gigi. And if he really was good at his job he would have realized that this draft had MVP/Franchise type big men, at least 3 maybe 4 or 5(Turner and Portis...and many were high on WCS, not me). And the big guys in the draft could hit ft's, stretch the floor and protect the rim....basically perfect for CBS system

[obnoxiousmime]

Yep, he would. He's buried behind a deep, much better, and well establiahed front court than Boston's. Mickey can't hold his jock... shouldn't use the two names in the same sentence. Rozier was a horrible pick. Expect a re- redo on Smart this year with BKN pick... Kris Dunn. That's all DA is comfortable with.

You can talk all you want about their units being better, etc., etc. but deeper they're not.

Portis wouldn't be getting playing time ahead of Sullinger-Olynyk-Johnson-Zeller add to that Lee and that's 5 players ahead of him depth wise, to say nothing of all the players Stevens uses when going small (Crowder/Jerebko) who'd be getting playing time ahead of Portis.

The reality in all of this, you can think what you want of Portis or how much of a stud he is, but he wouldn't be leap frogging any of these guys unless injuries occurred.

The Celtics bigs are much deeper than Chicago's and even then it took injuries for him to get playing time.

In fact, with all the NBA caliber bigs we have, there wouldn't be room for Portis to dress in the first place to get playing time.

What??? Gasol, Gibson, Noah, and Mirotic are not chopped liver. You could argue that we have more "depth" in terms of C to B-level players (C being a mediocre/average rotation guy) but that would be a pretty flawed definition of the term. In the NBA you don't win just because your 7-8-9 guys are a little better than the other team's.

Anyway I never go overboard with the pick-and-choose draft criticism because the truth is a lot of teams miss on these late-round gems. However, I will say that these are the kind of picks that a team has to make to accelerate the rebuild, especially if you're not out-and-out tanking.

Every time you miss out on getting a hidden gem in the draft it can delay your team's rebuild process. Olynyk is a fine player and will have a nice career. However, if we had drafted Giannis we'd have a huge asset on the team right now that teams would actually be willing to deal for as the centerpiece. Olynyk isn't going to be the centerpiece of any deal for a star, let's be honest.

In conclusion, it's not fair to kill Ainge for missing this or that player but they represent missed opportunities nonetheless. No team drafts perfectly but the ones that do hit it big late in the draft reap a huge reward. Golden State getting Draymond in the 2nd round, Chicago getting Butler at the end of the first, Milwaukee/Giannis at 15, Utah/Rudy Gobert at 27, these types of draft steals are like getting a top 5 pick in the draft for free.

When Ainge hit it big with Jefferson at 15, it was a huge chip that made the Garnett deal possible. When he hit it big with Rondo at 21, it gave us the depth to win a title after most of the remaining players had been dealt away. If Ainge is unwilling to play the tank card, at some point he needs to actually draft someone of that caliber to keep on the roster or use as a trade chip.

Anti-tankers say all the time "the draft is a crapshoot" and "there's talent all throughout the draft - look at Paul George." OK, so then the onus is on Ainge to actually draft one of those players with these late picks. Recently, he hasn't.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Yep, he would. He's buried behind a deep, much better, and well establiahed front court than Boston's. Mickey can't hold his jock... shouldn't use the two names in the same sentence. Rozier was a horrible pick. Expect a re- redo on Smart this year with BKN pick... Kris Dunn. That's all DA is comfortable with.

You can talk all you want about their units being better, etc., etc. but deeper they're not.

Portis wouldn't be getting playing time ahead of Sullinger-Olynyk-Johnson-Zeller add to that Lee and that's 5 players ahead of him depth wise, to say nothing of all the players Stevens uses when going small (Crowder/Jerebko) who'd be getting playing time ahead of Portis.

The reality in all of this, you can think what you want of Portis or how much of a stud he is, but he wouldn't be leap frogging any of these guys unless injuries occurred.

The Celtics bigs are much deeper than Chicago's and even then it took injuries for him to get playing time.

In fact, with all the NBA caliber bigs we have, there wouldn't be room for Portis to dress in the first place to get playing time.

What??? Gasol, Gibson, Noah, and Mirotic are not chopped liver. You could argue that we have more "depth" in terms of C to B-level players (C being a mediocre/average rotation guy) but that would be a pretty flawed definition of the term. In the NBA you don't win just because your 7-8-9 guys are a little better than the other team's.

Anyway I never go overboard with the pick-and-choose draft criticism because the truth is a lot of teams miss on these late-round gems. However, I will say that these are the kind of picks that a team has to make to accelerate the rebuild, especially if you're not out-and-out tanking.

Every time you miss out on getting a hidden gem in the draft it can delay your team's rebuild process. Olynyk is a fine player and will have a nice career. However, if we had drafted Giannis we'd have a huge asset on the team right now that teams would actually be willing to deal for as the centerpiece. Olynyk isn't going to be the centerpiece of any deal for a star, let's be honest.

In conclusion, it's not fair to kill Ainge for missing this or that player but they represent missed opportunities nonetheless. No team drafts perfectly but the ones that do hit it big late in the draft reap a huge reward. Golden State getting Draymond in the 2nd round, Chicago getting Butler at the end of the first, Milwaukee/Giannis at 15, Utah/Rudy Gobert at 27, these types of draft steals are like getting a top 5 pick in the draft for free.

When Ainge hit it big with Jefferson at 15, it was a huge chip that made the Garnett deal possible. When he hit it big with Rondo at 21, it gave us the depth to win a title after most of the remaining players had been dealt away. If Ainge is unwilling to play the tank card, at some point he needs to actually draft someone of that caliber to keep on the roster or use as a trade chip.

Anti-tankers say all the time "the draft is a crapshoot" and "there's talent all throughout the draft - look at Paul George." OK, so then the onus is on Ainge to actually draft one of those players with these late picks. Recently, he hasn't.

I'm obviously in agreement with you, as you're quoting a counterargument here. But I do wonder -- without intending to derail the thread entirely -- what people make of the Rozier pick. I can't imagine there are many that believe he was BPA, and he didn't fill a need, yet does fit a trend... just wonder how people view that selection today.

As for the Bulls... obv agree that their frontcourt is deep, good, well-established, and better than ours. At the same time, they're also very high on Portis... to the extent that fans/reporters have voiced frustration re: PT, Hoiberg has been promising more minutes for a month now and even stated he has deserved it for longer, and Noah recently described him as "no joke" and the "future of the franchise." He's gonna be [dang] good. His motor alone makes him a rotation player, but he appears to be far more skilled than many people expected, at least at this stage. Scores in a variety of ways, attacks the boards, defends like he's possessed, and even makes plays for others.

[KG Living Legend]

 17.5 ppg and 9 RPG and 1.5 bpg 1.3 apg on .536% shooting he was a very good prospect. Not an elite athlete but he's huge, tough, intense, great motor.

 He would have made losing Sully much easier.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Another miss by Ainge. If Portis was a PG he would have been grabbed by Ainge. Ainge hasn't had a good draft in a long time. Should have moved on from him after last season. He has forgotten how to draft. I hope he does the right thing and leaves. Get a guy like Hinkie in here and blow this treadmill squad up. Imagine what Hinkie could do with all of the picks and someone like Thomas who is looking like he could bring back a 1st? I want Ben Simmons on this team next year.

Or do us all a favor and go root for the Sixers if you're so miserable following the Celtics.

cb, Ingram is very good also. Simmons is 1.3 years older than Ingram, Ingram is very young for a freshman but Simmons is not old for a freshman or anything

Anyways, I think we would be very very very lucky to get Ingram with BKN pick. He has great quickness and lateral movement, 7-4 wingspan and 9'2'' reach and can shoot the lights out....he played pg on several respectable aau teams and has won 3 point contests but ppl here were never interested until recently. He can play sg and sf and block frontcourt guys. Also, he can touch the top of the backboard when he was just 17

[rollie mass]

i liked justin anderson,portis and rjh
 rozier was a complete surprise and my first thought was there goes marcus for a big
we have lost marcus and seen the effect losing isaiah
so was danny starting to groom another guard,
is danny biased towards guards or did he see something at tryouts that translated
rozier style of using bursts confuses me,i'm used to a more fluid style and better dribbler and a better passer
what did impress me was his 2nd effort after a miss,he is quite quick with good vertical and has ability to put back his own miss and seems to have a good shot-
with marcus out rozier hasn't gotten any time-quess that says he isn't close to ready
why didn't we take any of the above-and why rozier

[BudweiserCeltic]

Yep, he would. He's buried behind a deep, much better, and well establiahed front court than Boston's. Mickey can't hold his jock... shouldn't use the two names in the same sentence. Rozier was a horrible pick. Expect a re- redo on Smart this year with BKN pick... Kris Dunn. That's all DA is comfortable with.

You can talk all you want about their units being better, etc., etc. but deeper they're not.

Portis wouldn't be getting playing time ahead of Sullinger-Olynyk-Johnson-Zeller add to that Lee and that's 5 players ahead of him depth wise, to say nothing of all the players Stevens uses when going small (Crowder/Jerebko) who'd be getting playing time ahead of Portis.

The reality in all of this, you can think what you want of Portis or how much of a stud he is, but he wouldn't be leap frogging any of these guys unless injuries occurred.

The Celtics bigs are much deeper than Chicago's and even then it took injuries for him to get playing time.

In fact, with all the NBA caliber bigs we have, there wouldn't be room for Portis to dress in the first place to get playing time.

What??? Gasol, Gibson, Noah, and Mirotic are not chopped liver. You could argue that we have more "depth" in terms of C to B-level players (C being a mediocre/average rotation guy) but that would be a pretty flawed definition of the term. In the NBA you don't win just because your 7-8-9 guys are a little better than the other team's.

Anyway I never go overboard with the pick-and-choose draft criticism because the truth is a lot of teams miss on these late-round gems. However, I will say that these are the kind of picks that a team has to make to accelerate the rebuild, especially if you're not out-and-out tanking.

Every time you miss out on getting a hidden gem in the draft it can delay your team's rebuild process. Olynyk is a fine player and will have a nice career. However, if we had drafted Giannis we'd have a huge asset on the team right now that teams would actually be willing to deal for as the centerpiece. Olynyk isn't going to be the centerpiece of any deal for a star, let's be honest.

In conclusion, it's not fair to kill Ainge for missing this or that player but they represent missed opportunities nonetheless. No team drafts perfectly but the ones that do hit it big late in the draft reap a huge reward. Golden State getting Draymond in the 2nd round, Chicago getting Butler at the end of the first, Milwaukee/Giannis at 15, Utah/Rudy Gobert at 27, these types of draft steals are like getting a top 5 pick in the draft for free.

When Ainge hit it big with Jefferson at 15, it was a huge chip that made the Garnett deal possible. When he hit it big with Rondo at 21, it gave us the depth to win a title after most of the remaining players had been dealt away. If Ainge is unwilling to play the tank card, at some point he needs to actually draft someone of that caliber to keep on the roster or use as a trade chip.

Anti-tankers say all the time "the draft is a crapshoot" and "there's talent all throughout the draft - look at Paul George." OK, so then the onus is on Ainge to actually draft one of those players with these late picks. Recently, he hasn't.

It's not a flawed definition of the term. Depth at it's most accurate definition would describe a team that has X amount of players capable of playing Y position at an appreciated Z level of competence.

The fact is that the Celtics, more than the Bulls, have more players, with experience no less, of getting on the floor and giving us productive minutes... not only productive minutes, but excelling as well.

This has nothing to do with Chicago having a shorter rotation composed of better players, but counting on bigs alone they're 4-deep before going to Portis.

In Boston we're 5-deep going into Mickey, but then you can add Crowder and Jerebko to the mix which would expand that depth and potentially prevent Mickey from getting some time as it is, or Portis if he were here.

So this is no outrageous proclamation. This has nothing to do with whether I think Portis is good or not. This has nothing to do with whether people think Portis is better than the players we have. This has all to do with a team having legit NBA players in their roster and the pecking order of things, and the fact is that we have a lot of players that are ahead of Portis in that regard. Heck, we're struggling to give time to our current players as it is, what makes you think that a rookie with no experience would be getting any? He wouldn't even be getting dressed for games.

That the Chicago bigs are not chopped liver isn't the issue here. In fact, Stevens is juggling playing time for 7 players in the 4-5 position as it is. What was Chicago juggling with? 4-5?

You can't look at this solely from the narrow perspective of skills and talent.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I think last year even before we traded RR people would have lost their minds if they were told we had to choose with the 16th spot with our pick. Most people thought we were easily a top ten lock.

After trading RR and Green everyone bought in, but Ainge had to go ruin it by keeping too many vets on the team that would not be here next year or offer any future help for a championship. CBS did an amazing job and is a great coach, DA screwed it up big time.