Author Topic: Espn article  (Read 6310 times)

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Re: Espn article
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2015, 09:56:15 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I can't really recall a time the national media and linesmakers respected a team so much more than their own fans. Maybe it is the fact that there is a very vocal minority that constantly talk about how low the celtics cieling is, but it sure seems strange. I am going to enjoy tonights game.

Celticsblog - a vocal minority would rather us have a record like the Sixers instead of one of the best in the East.

I respect this team and love their winning ways. I may be at fault for overestimating what they can do, like a typical fan of their favorite team.

Re: Espn article
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2015, 09:59:26 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I can't really recall a time the national media and linesmakers respected a team so much more than their own fans. Maybe it is the fact that there is a very vocal minority that constantly talk about how low the celtics cieling is, but it sure seems strange. I am going to enjoy tonights game.

Celticsblog - a vocal minority would rather us have a record like the Sixers instead of one of the best in the East.

I respect this team and love their winning ways. I may be at fault for overestimating what they can do, like a typical fan of their favorite team.

Shame on you.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Espn article
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2015, 10:10:22 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Who is the vocal minority on here that wants us to be 1-20?  I can think of just one poster --- and its not the one who is frequently accused of being a Sixers fan.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Espn article
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2015, 10:23:05 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Celtics are not a push over win for anybody anymore.  Ran the loaded to the gill Spurs with like Ten Stars all the way to the wire . 

Celtics are more than Capable of beating The Diva   .....and his little boy Dova

Re: Espn article
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2015, 11:27:31 AM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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It might be early, but point differential is one of the best indicators of success.

Yes, with one caveat: that ranking can be distorted by the strength of the schedule played. Celtics, for example, have played a below-average schedule so far.

Re: Espn article
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2015, 11:39:16 AM »

Offline KeepRondo

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Here you go -

A quick glance at the Eastern Conference standings would suggest that when the 11-7 Chicago Bulls visit the 12-9 Boston Celtics on Wednesday (ESPN/WatchESPN, 7 ET), it's a matchup of a contender against a team that should be just hoping to make the playoffs.

While that might indeed be the case, a closer reading of advanced statistics suggests the identity of the two teams is reversed. Boston has been the best team in the Eastern Conference this season -- even though if the playoffs started today, the Celtics would be sitting at home, not playing, as the ninth seed. Meanwhile, the Bulls have played more like the sixth-best team in the East.

What's more, the Celtics also have a much better outlook going forward.

Scoring margin and expected wins

Scoring margin is often the most meaningful and predictive column in the standings, and it tells you more about what a team has done than its win-loss record. Early in the season, it's not uncommon for a team's W-L record to tell a very different story from its margin of victory.

Boston has the best scoring margin in the Eastern Conference, while Chicago's is just ninth best.

The Pythagorean method allows us to use points scored and allowed per game to project expected wins. Based on that, eight teams -- more than a quarter of the league -- have won either two more or two fewer games than we'd expect.

As you might expect, the Celtics are one of those teams, and the Bulls aren't far outside that group.

Actual Vs. Expected Wins
TEAM   W   EXP. W   DIFF.   RANK
Philadelphia   1   3.3   2.3   1
Phoenix   9   11.2   2.2   2
Portland   9   11.2   2.2   2
Boston   12   14.2   2.2   2
Oklahoma City   13   14.9   1.9   5
-------            
Chicago   11   9.4   -1.6   25
Washington   9   7.2   -1.8   26
Houston   10   8.0   -2.0   27
Milwaukee   9   6.6   -2.4   28
Golden State   23   19.8   -3.2   29
Memphis   12   7.5   -4.5   30
Chicago playing -- and mostly winning -- close games

The Bulls have played 11 games decided by six points or fewer, tied for second most in the league with Toronto. (Cleveland has played 12.) Chicago is 8-3 in those games, tied with the 8-2 Houston Rockets for the most wins by six points or fewer and the reason why the Bulls have survived a mediocre start with a solid record.

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Chicago had an even bigger discrepancy between its record and its point differential a week ago, when the team was 11-5 with a plus-1.6 differential. The Bulls were 8-1 in games decided by six points or fewer before losing their last two, both at home, to the Charlotte Hornets and the Phoenix Suns. Tuesday's two-point loss to the Suns, which came when Mirza Teletovic won the game with a rebound and twisting, one-footed fade-away shot just before the buzzer, illustrates how fleeting the thin margins on which Chicago was relying can be.

The news is not all bad for the Bulls. According to Basketball-Reference.com's simple rating system, Chicago has played the league's second-hardest schedule to date, easier only than that faced by the 5-16 New Orleans Pelicans. Adjusting the Bulls' differential for that schedule improves them from ninth in the East to seventh.

Chicago's wins are also banked. So ESPN's basketball power index (BPI) has the Bulls finishing with an average of 46 wins, sixth in the conference, though only three games ahead of the team projected to finish ninth, the Orlando Magic, coached by former Bulls coach Scott Skiles.

If Chicago can play better going forward than it has so far because of the return of starting forward Mike Dunleavy, who has yet to play this season following a microdiscectomy procedure on his ailing back, the Bulls might yet emerge as a favorite for home-court advantage in the opening round. Alas, doctors recently recommended at least another month of rest and rehab for Dunleavy.


Boston has nine wins by 15 or more points this year. Maddie Meyer/Getty Images
Boston blowing out opponents

Meanwhile, the Celtics have had almost the opposite experience from Chicago. Boston has played just four games all season decided by six points or fewer, tied for the league's third-fewest total. Almost every close Celtics game has been decided before the closing minutes, leaving little room for the luck of the Irish. (Boston hasn't had much anyway, going 1-3 in close games.)

For the most part, those lopsided scores have favored the Celtics. Boston's nine wins by 15-plus points rank second in the NBA, trailing only the undefeated Golden State Warriors.

In case you're skeptical about the meaning of early blowout wins, eight teams have won precisely nine of their first 21 games by at least 15 points. (The high in that span is 11, by the 1996-97 Bulls.) Those teams have finished with a winning percentage equivalent to 58 wins, and five of the eight won the championship.

Teams With Nine 15-Point Wins In First 21 Games
TEAM   YEAR   WIN%   PLAYOFFS
Lakers   1997-98   0.744   Lost Conf Finals
Lakers   2001-02   0.707   Won NBA Finals
Lakers   2003-04   0.683   Lost NBA Finals
Spurs   2004-05   0.720   Won NBA Finals
Celtics   2007-08   0.805   Won NBA Finals
Lakers   2009-10   0.695   Won NBA Finals
Sixers   2011-12   0.530   Lost Conf Semifinals
Warriors   2014-15   0.817   Won NBA Finals
Since 1995-96
Don't start planning the parade route down Causeway Street just yet. The Celtics also have five double-digit losses, so their point differential so far is more consistent with that of a 55-win team than of a 60-win one. And again, the close losses Boston has suffered are banked, so BPI simulations have the Celtics winning an average of 50 games.

That's still a better projection than for the Bulls, the Hawks and the Miami Heat. Only the Cleveland Cavaliers and Toronto Raptors (51 apiece, though that surely underrates the Cavaliers because of the injuries they've dealt with) have superior projections in the East.

So far, Boston seems to be living up to an impressive preseason projection from ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM).

RPM's high hopes for the Celtics were based largely on the team's depth, and Boston's ability to overcome the absence of starting guard Marcus Smart (who's been limited to nine games by multiple injuries) is one example of depth in action. Including Smart, the Celtics have nine regulars -- basically everyone in Brad Stevens' typical rotation save forward David Lee -- with a net rating of plus-3.0 per 100 possessions or better while on the court, per NBA.com/Stats.

Boston's ability to wear down thinner teams might not work as well in the playoffs, when opponents can extend the minutes of their best players. But even without the traditional superstars that Boston fans are accustomed to, and without the wins that would put them at the top of the standings, the Celtics have been the best team in the Eastern Conference.

Re: Espn article
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2015, 11:44:09 AM »

Offline i believe in brad

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It might be early, but point differential is one of the best indicators of success.

Yes, with one caveat: that ranking can be distorted by the strength of the schedule played. Celtics, for example, have played a below-average schedule so far.

How so?

-Toronto
-SA x2
-Indy x2
-Washington x2, worse than expected but not awful
-Milwaukee not awful
-Atlanta x2
-OKC w/o KD but still good
-Dallas is better than people thought
-Orlando not awful
-Miami
-Chicago

I'll give you Philly x2, Houston, Brooklyn x2, Sacramento and NO are all pretty awful.  That gets us to 15 quality opponents and 7 crappy ones.


Re: Espn article
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2015, 12:19:28 PM »

Offline LilRip

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wow, we're going to win 50-55 games? I'd be impressed if that came to fruition.
- LilRip

Re: Espn article
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2015, 12:23:21 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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wow, we're going to win 50-55 games? I'd be impressed if that came to fruition.
If we can win 50 games, you gotta think a top free agent is going to like our situation.

Re: Espn article
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2015, 12:24:04 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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wow, we're going to win 50-55 games? I'd be impressed if that came to fruition.

It's weird.  50 wins doesn't seem as crazy to me as it did before the season.  I thought they'd be somewhere in the 43-47 win range.  Now I'm thinking its going to be the higher end of that or even more.


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Re: Espn article
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2015, 12:44:50 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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It might be early, but point differential is one of the best indicators of success.

Yes, with one caveat: that ranking can be distorted by the strength of the schedule played. Celtics, for example, have played a below-average schedule so far.

How so?

-Toronto
-SA x2
-Indy x2
-Washington x2, worse than expected but not awful
-Milwaukee not awful
-Atlanta x2
-OKC w/o KD but still good
-Dallas is better than people thought
-Orlando not awful
-Miami
-Chicago

I'll give you Philly x2, Houston, Brooklyn x2, Sacramento and NO are all pretty awful.  That gets us to 15 quality opponents and 7 crappy ones.

yea we have not had an easy schedule. I would argue that even Houston and NO are not that awful (especially since we played NO when they were approaching full strength). If we had played the Lakers 2 Times, Denver and Portland at home along with the Brooklyn games and Philly games I would say that was some puff wins, but we really only have 3. We also have played the same amount of games on the road and at home.

Re: Espn article
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2015, 01:00:10 PM »

Offline colincb

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It might be early, but point differential is one of the best indicators of success.

Yes, with one caveat: that ranking can be distorted by the strength of the schedule played. Celtics, for example, have played a below-average schedule so far.

The predictive models adjust for SOS.

Re: Espn article
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2015, 01:05:37 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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On a related note, I was going to start a thread about what happened with the Hollinger rankings, but I guess they canned them when Hollinger left. It seems they're also now finally redirecting the Hollinger PR page to their new homegrown index (Cs are fifth).
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Espn article
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2015, 01:09:41 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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We are tied for 8th right now, a win tonight and we could be no worse than tied for 6th and as high as 4th. Lets get some optimism going. I will be pumped if they win.

We're 7th, I was surprised since Indy and Miami have 3 and 2 in a row, respectively.

FUNNY NOTE: The Hornets are 2nd in the East. Almost fell out of my chair.
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Re: Espn article
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2015, 01:14:59 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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The Celtics have looked better than I thought so far in terms of wins but the entire East Conference has more wins than I think most people thought.  Their position in the East has hovered around what I thought; fighting for the back end of the playoff spots.

I think what I missed is not so much how good the Celtics are but how most of the rest of the league is not as good as I thought.  These fancy predictive models may actually be good at the comparative analysis.

I still find 50+ wins hard to believe but it is looking more likely all the time.