D'Angelo Russell and Julius Randle: Lakers Players Removed From Starting Lineup

[celticsclay]

if people think the Lakers are not keeping their pick (barring some lottery magic with literal odds of .005%) they should invest in Radioshack.

What are you talking about?  Even if the Lakers finish with the worst record, they still have 35% chance of losing their pick to the Sixers.

Yup.  And if somehow they rise even one spot to the 3rd worst record, they have a 55% chance of losing their pick to the Sixers.   Perhaps Clay is one of those folks who believes the lottery is fixed?

I do believe it is possible that it is fixed, and i don't believe in really any other conspiracies. That being said, I think the Lakers finish worse than the 76ers. They have a built in excuse to tank with the Kobe Farewell tour, which is pretty brilliant. Meanwhile, the 76ers are under the microscope for not being competitive. (Not to mention you all keep saying how much the 76ers will be when they get wroten, marshall and other garbage players healthy, so you can't have it both ways)

In the case the Lakers finish with the worst record. In which case, 75% of the scenarios that get the lakers pick also cost the 76ers their top pick. I don't really get why you guys are such zealots. Obviously my radioshack comment was not literal math odds, it was a joke.

[wayupnorth]

D'Angelo Russell was disappointed about being taken out of the starting lineup but he found more freedom playing without Kobe Bryant.

“You’ve got to be more aggressive," Russell said about being with the second unit.

“There’s just more ball movement,” said Russell. “No disrespect to Kobe, but you just know you have more opportunity because he’s who he is.”

Russell had nine points, three rebounds and two assists in 21 minutes.

Byron Scott admitted that Russell and Julius Randle not playing alongside Bryant meant they didn’t “defer as much” to Bryant, a volume shooter.

“When KB is out there, they seem to defer a little bit more to him,” Scott said. “I thought tonight they played a little bit more free. They still made mistakes, but they’re going to make mistakes. They’re young. But I want them to continue to play as hard as they played tonight.”

So in other words ...

First Unit:  The Kobe Circus... what people are tuning in for and buying tickets to see.  He can jack up 20+ shots a night next to veteran nobodies who know their role.

Second Unit: The young guys develop and get their opportunities... instead of wasting their minutes dumping it off to the Black Hole, they can try things without Kobe on the court. 

It's dumb... it's tankers tanking...  but I guess I sort of see the logic from a business standpoint.  No team has more incentive to lose games than the Lakers.  They have a real risk of losing their pick if it falls outside the top 3 (50/50 shot, basically)... so letting this Kobe abomination continue probably helps.  Ultimately, Kobe probably gets injured and doesn't finish out the season... so might as well have Russell and Randle get some reps without him on the court now.

LOL you are ridiculous.

You turn anything about the Celtics into unbridled negativity, but yet when tons of negative stuff comes out about the fakers and sixers, you just somehow try and turn it into something really positive.

Doing that absolutely wrecks your ethos, just so you know.

[LarBrd33]

D'Angelo Russell was disappointed about being taken out of the starting lineup but he found more freedom playing without Kobe Bryant.

“You’ve got to be more aggressive," Russell said about being with the second unit.

“There’s just more ball movement,” said Russell. “No disrespect to Kobe, but you just know you have more opportunity because he’s who he is.”

Russell had nine points, three rebounds and two assists in 21 minutes.

Byron Scott admitted that Russell and Julius Randle not playing alongside Bryant meant they didn’t “defer as much” to Bryant, a volume shooter.

“When KB is out there, they seem to defer a little bit more to him,” Scott said. “I thought tonight they played a little bit more free. They still made mistakes, but they’re going to make mistakes. They’re young. But I want them to continue to play as hard as they played tonight.”

So in other words ...

First Unit:  The Kobe Circus... what people are tuning in for and buying tickets to see.  He can jack up 20+ shots a night next to veteran nobodies who know their role.

Second Unit: The young guys develop and get their opportunities... instead of wasting their minutes dumping it off to the Black Hole, they can try things without Kobe on the court. 

It's dumb... it's tankers tanking...  but I guess I sort of see the logic from a business standpoint.  No team has more incentive to lose games than the Lakers.  They have a real risk of losing their pick if it falls outside the top 3 (50/50 shot, basically)... so letting this Kobe abomination continue probably helps.  Ultimately, Kobe probably gets injured and doesn't finish out the season... so might as well have Russell and Randle get some reps without him on the court now.

LOL you are ridiculous.

You turn anything about the Celtics into unbridled negativity, but yet when tons of negative stuff comes out about the fakers and sixers, you just somehow try and turn it into something really positive.

Doing that absolutely wrecks your ethos, just so you know.

Nothing I said was ridiculous.  I'm summing up what the Lakers are doing... it's ridiculous.  Suggesting that my reaction was positive is ridiculous.  Lakers are tanking hard while selling tickets to the Kobe Circus... all while attempting to develop two stud prospects that clearly hate playing alongside the Kobster Black Hole... it's ridiculous.

They are looking at a 50/50 shot of losing their pick to Philly.   They are selling out due to the Kobe show... but the Kobe show involves him jacking up 30 shots a night on 20% shooting...  Byron Scott is a garbage coach.  Apparently he thinks the best course of action for the young players is to bring them off the bench in a second unit without needing to spend all their minutes dumping the ball off to Kobe.  It's absurd.  They are putting a priority on the Kobe show over developing their kids properly.   I imagine you glossed over my response and went with the ol ridiculous "OMG LAR HATES BOSTON LOVES URBUDY ERSE!@!" standby.

I suppose I could have just said, "LOL LAKERS ARE A TRAINWRECK!", but I was trying to understand their ridiculous rationalization for temporarily benching their two best prospects.     

[LarBrd33]

if people think the Lakers are not keeping their pick (barring some lottery magic with literal odds of .005%) they should invest in Radioshack.

What are you talking about?  Even if the Lakers finish with the worst record, they still have 35% chance of losing their pick to the Sixers.

Yup.  And if somehow they rise even one spot to the 3rd worst record, they have a 55% chance of losing their pick to the Sixers.   Perhaps Clay is one of those folks who believes the lottery is fixed?

I do believe it is possible that it is fixed,

Honest question, Clay... do you know how the lotto works?  I might have asked you that before.  Every year someone suggests the lotto is fixed and 9 times out of 10 they don't actually know how the lotto works.   1 time out of 10 they stubbornly believe it's fixed anyways.

Usually, they just need to watch these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKI-fToATpQ

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/draft/2014/05/20/052014-draft-lottery-behind-the-scenes.nba/

[GreenWarrior]

i'd rather they just do away with the lottery and let teams tank legitimately. because it's not stopping anyone from doing it now...

what is the point? so they can pick and choose the seeding? if they do away with the lottery it eliminates the speculation that it's fixed.

[footey]

Where are Silver's balls of "Sterling" now?  League should penalize.

[tazzmaniac]

if people think the Lakers are not keeping their pick (barring some lottery magic with literal odds of .005%) they should invest in Radioshack.

What are you talking about?  Even if the Lakers finish with the worst record, they still have 35% chance of losing their pick to the Sixers.

Yup.  And if somehow they rise even one spot to the 3rd worst record, they have a 55% chance of losing their pick to the Sixers.   Perhaps Clay is one of those folks who believes the lottery is fixed?

I do believe it is possible that it is fixed, and i don't believe in really any other conspiracies. That being said, I think the Lakers finish worse than the 76ers. They have a built in excuse to tank with the Kobe Farewell tour, which is pretty brilliant. Meanwhile, the 76ers are under the microscope for not being competitive. (Not to mention you all keep saying how much the 76ers will be when they get wroten, marshall and other garbage players healthy, so you can't have it both ways)

In the case the Lakers finish with the worst record. In which case, 75% of the scenarios that get the lakers pick also cost the 76ers their pick. I don't really get why you guys are such zealots. Obviously my radioshack comment was not literal math odds, it was a joke.

The conspiracy theory that the lottery is fixed is nonsense.  There are representatives from every team in the room.  The losers would have no reason to go along with a fix.  I've said Covington coming back will help the Sixers.  Wroten and/or Marshall coming back may help a little but I don't expect they'll move the needle much. 

I agree that the Lakers could out tank the Sixers which is why I think the Sixers should really tank hard.  People seem to forget that the Sixers were only the 3rd worst team both of the past two seasons. 

There is nothing that will cost the Sixers their own pick no matter what happens with the Lakers pick.  The Sixers will get their own pick which is almost certainly going to be top 5 and at worst (i.e. Lakers finish with the worst record) will have a 35% chance at getting the Lakers pick.  The Sixers also have the right to swap picks with the Kings which increase the Sixers lottery odds. 

[jambr380]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

[LarBrd33]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

[Eddie20]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/amid-kobe-farewell-tour--no--2-overall-pick-d-angelo-russell-struggling-to-find-his-way-192720707.html

That's funny because they actually don't.

The "great" Russell...

Russell lacks the lateral quickness to turn corners and that explosive first step to just blow by opponents, limitations that contribute to his struggles on defense. He also hasn't shown enough in the first few weeks of the regular season, preseason or even summer league to suggest that he will match the success of Paul or Irving, perennial all-stars at their positions. But he was taken No. 2 with the hope that he would at least come close, especially as the Lakers prepare for life without Bryant. Scott's decision to sit Russell late in games is confounding even for some members of the Lakers’ front office who were swayed to bypass Kristaps Porzingis and Jahlil Okafor because Scott favored the flashy point guard from Ohio State, league sources told Yahoo Sports. The season already is lost for a franchise that desperately needs to hold on to its top-three protected first-round pick, and Russell would like the chance to find some solutions on the floor.

[LarBrd33]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

That's funny because they actually don't.

Would gladly trade for either right now.  Given that it's their first month of NBA basketball, I'd say they have nothing to worry about.

Wiggins' first month:  12.3 points, 3.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1.1 steal 40%/42%/74%
Randle's first month:  12 points, 9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal 45%/x/69%
Russell's first month:  11 points, 5 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1 steal, 41%/32%/80%
Smart's first month:  6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.5 steals, 27%/24%/100%

[Eddie20]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

That's funny because they actually don't.

Would gladly trade for either right now.  Given that it's their first month of NBA basketball, I'd say they have nothing to worry about.

Wiggins' first month:  12.3 points, 3.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1.1 steal 40%/42%/74%
Randle's first month:  12 points, 9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal 45%/x/69%
Russell's first month:  11 points, 5 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1 steal, 41%/32%/80%
Smart's first month:  6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.5 steals, 27%/24%/100%

So what? They don't look "great". Randle is a one dimensional player who can't play a lick of D and has a tendency to not only overdribble (the ball sticks to him), but he takes a lot of bad shots.

Russell lacks athleticism and looks like that lone Ohio St. year was an aberration and the player that was a decent HS prospect, that was overshadowed by Ben Simmons, is the realization.

Since you deleted this...

Russell lacks the lateral quickness to turn corners and that explosive first step to just blow by opponents, limitations that contribute to his struggles on defense. He also hasn't shown enough in the first few weeks of the regular season, preseason or even summer league to suggest that he will match the success of Paul or Irving, perennial all-stars at their positions. But he was taken No. 2 with the hope that he would at least come close, especially as the Lakers prepare for life without Bryant. Scott's decision to sit Russell late in games is confounding even for some members of the Lakers’ front office who were swayed to bypass Kristaps Porzingis and Jahlil Okafor because Scott favored the flashy point guard from Ohio State, league sources told Yahoo Sports. The season already is lost for a franchise that desperately needs to hold on to its top-three protected first-round pick, and Russell would like the chance to find some solutions on the floor.

[Rondo9]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

That's funny because they actually don't.

Would gladly trade for either right now.  Given that it's their first month of NBA basketball, I'd say they have nothing to worry about.

Wiggins' first month:  12.3 points, 3.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1.1 steal 40%/42%/74%
Randle's first month:  12 points, 9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal 45%/x/69%
Russell's first month:  11 points, 5 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1 steal, 41%/32%/80%
Smart's first month:  6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.5 steals, 27%/24%/100%

So what? They don't look "great". Randle is a one dimensional player who can't play a lick of D and has a tendency to not only overdribble (the ball sticks to him), but he takes a lot of bad shots.

Russell lacks athleticism and looks like that lone Ohio St. year was an aberration and the player that was a decent HS prospect, that was overshadowed by Ben Simmons, is the realization.

Since you deleted this...

Russell lacks the lateral quickness to turn corners and that explosive first step to just blow by opponents, limitations that contribute to his struggles on defense. He also hasn't shown enough in the first few weeks of the regular season, preseason or even summer league to suggest that he will match the success of Paul or Irving, perennial all-stars at their positions. But he was taken No. 2 with the hope that he would at least come close, especially as the Lakers prepare for life without Bryant. Scott's decision to sit Russell late in games is confounding even for some members of the Lakers’ front office who were swayed to bypass Kristaps Porzingis and Jahlil Okafor because Scott favored the flashy point guard from Ohio State, league sources told Yahoo Sports. The season already is lost for a franchise that desperately needs to hold on to its top-three protected first-round pick, and Russell would like the chance to find some solutions on the floor.

Agreed, I've seen plenty of Laker games to know that Randle has a lot of work to do in his game. He's at best an 8th man on a good team right now.

[MJohnnyboy]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

That's funny because they actually don't.

Would gladly trade for either right now.  Given that it's their first month of NBA basketball, I'd say they have nothing to worry about.

Wiggins' first month:  12.3 points, 3.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1.1 steal 40%/42%/74%
Randle's first month:  12 points, 9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal 45%/x/69%
Russell's first month:  11 points, 5 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1 steal, 41%/32%/80%
Smart's first month:  6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.5 steals, 27%/24%/100%

Wow. Talk about flawed logic.

1. Unlike the other three you mention, Smart was not starting for the team at point guard his first month in the NBA. Someone else was getting most of the minutes but I can't remember the name could you enlighten me?
2. Smart got hurt 5 games into the season so that's a very small sample size for his "first month"
3. Were the Lakers/Timberwolves winning while these guys were putting up these "great" numbers?
4. Let's apply that logic to the 2009 draft. Let's compare NBA superstars Tyreke Evans and Brandon Jennings with NBA bums Stephen Curry and James Harden and their first months of their respective NBA careers.

Tyreke Evans 1st month: 20.3 points, 5.5 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 1.3 steals 45%/36%/82%
Brandon Jennings 1st month: 22.1 points, 3.8 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 1.1 steals 42%/49%/78%

Stephen Curry 1st month: 9.8 points, 3.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 1.3 steals 41%/38%/78%
James Harden 1st month: 9.7 points, 2.8 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.3 steals 41%/40%/81%

I don't know about you, but going by that logic, Evans and Jennings clearly have turned out to be much better than those no-names Curry and Harden.

[Eddie20]

While Lar's argument seems to make some sense (getting the young guys minutes without Kobe), it could just be that Russell sucks and Randle [possibly] has a bad attitude. Lou Williams was 6th man of the year last year - it's not implausible that he should start on the 2nd worst team in the NBA. I imagine Nance is the kind of guy who gives it his all and doesn't complain.

Sure, this is temporary, but the Lakers are a joke right now and the young guys shouldn't automatically be given a starting gig just because they were high picks. I can't imagine the Lakers really want to win, but they are making a change because they should.

Russell and Randle look great.  I think they could be heading for a full-tilt player's revolt.  This Kobe situation could boil over at some point.  It's disgusting. 

"Los Angeles Lakers:  Civil War"... coming to a theater near you.

That's funny because they actually don't.

Would gladly trade for either right now.  Given that it's their first month of NBA basketball, I'd say they have nothing to worry about.

Wiggins' first month:  12.3 points, 3.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1.1 steal 40%/42%/74%
Randle's first month:  12 points, 9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal 45%/x/69%
Russell's first month:  11 points, 5 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1 steal, 41%/32%/80%
Smart's first month:  6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.5 steals, 27%/24%/100%

So what? They don't look "great". Randle is a one dimensional player who can't play a lick of D and has a tendency to not only overdribble (the ball sticks to him), but he takes a lot of bad shots.

Russell lacks athleticism and looks like that lone Ohio St. year was an aberration and the player that was a decent HS prospect, that was overshadowed by Ben Simmons, is the realization.

Since you deleted this...

Russell lacks the lateral quickness to turn corners and that explosive first step to just blow by opponents, limitations that contribute to his struggles on defense. He also hasn't shown enough in the first few weeks of the regular season, preseason or even summer league to suggest that he will match the success of Paul or Irving, perennial all-stars at their positions. But he was taken No. 2 with the hope that he would at least come close, especially as the Lakers prepare for life without Bryant. Scott's decision to sit Russell late in games is confounding even for some members of the Lakers’ front office who were swayed to bypass Kristaps Porzingis and Jahlil Okafor because Scott favored the flashy point guard from Ohio State, league sources told Yahoo Sports. The season already is lost for a franchise that desperately needs to hold on to its top-three protected first-round pick, and Russell would like the chance to find some solutions on the floor.

Agreed, I've seen plenty of Laker games to know that Randle has a lot of work to do in his game. He's at best an 8th man on a good team right now.

Exactly. That's the problem when you try to base arguments strictly on stats instead of watching actual games. Randle also has a very interesting habit of stealing rebounds from teammates.

LB33 is huge into fantasy basketball so he overrates players that produce stats on bad teams (a very common occurrence) while underrating players like Smart who does so many things that don't show up in the boxscore (particularly his D) and don't produce the same numbers because they play for a winning team.