WCS

[MikeJelly]

Shocker another WCS thread lol

But i just wanna point out that WCS looks lost in the Kings organization. I have no doubt in my mind they sell low on him like the did on Stauskas. Still think he could fit very well in our system.

Trade BOS 2016 and Minny 2016(conditonal) for WCS

Still get to keep the Nets pick
Still keep the Dallas pick
Running Rim protector who has passion (when in the right culture)

We can still get our SF of the future with the Nets pick (I have faith) whether it be Simmons, Brown or Ingram.

IT
Smart
Simmons or Ingram or Brown
Sully
WCS

Bench:
Rozier
AB/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Young
KO/Mickey
C can be Dallas' Pick

Still have the Nets pick in 2017 and 2018. Still have lots of young assets. Love it.

Let me know what you all think.

[MikeJelly]

Also would like to add that I could put AB as our starting SG instead of Smart because he is KILLING IT lately

[Eddie20]

It doesn't look like they sold low on Stauskas. That kid is awful. His defense is atrocious. At the rate he's going he'll be out of the league in a couple of years like Jimmer.

[LarBrd33]

It doesn't look like they sold low on Stauskas. That kid is awful. His defense is atrocious. At the rate he's going he'll be out of the league in a couple of years like Jimmer.

Stauskas has looked better his last couple games.  His stats are pretty similar to Marcus Smart this year.

[sofutomygaha]

You don't see a lot of 1st and 2nd year guys traded for picks.

Eddie mentioned Jimmer.... I can't help it. Why oh why isn't Jimmer the poor man's Steph Curry? I don't get it. The Story of the Year is how Curry is completely unlike any other player, but Jimmer came out of college looking like the exact same player Curry was when he came out. I don't understand how, with such similar skill-sets and college track records, they could have diverged so far as to be literally the best and the worst of NBA regulars.

[Eddie20]

It doesn't look like they sold low on Stauskas. That kid is awful. His defense is atrocious. At the rate he's going he'll be out of the league in a couple of years like Jimmer.

Stauskas has looked better his last couple games.  His stats are pretty similar to Marcus Smart this year.

No, he hasn't. He's looked awful. Kobe blew by him like Stauskas was the 37 year old. He's now coming off the bench for the worst team in the league and was traded for nothing. The Kings knew what they had in him and it isn't much. Sixers, at least coach Brown is, are seeing it also. You should start watching game more than relying solely on box scores. It'll give you a better idea of what's going on.

[LarBrd33]

None of my opinions this summer got more heat than the ones I had about Bismack Biyombo.  But I stand by them 100% and believe that they were mostly taken out of context.   

Here was my point...

Willie Cauley Stein was the player half this forum wanted.  We knew he was going higher than #16 and everyone was ready to go all-in and trade multiple picks to get him as our "center of the future".   

We know that we attempted to trade 6 draft picks (four of which were 1st rounders... one of which was a Brooklyn pick) just to trade up to #9 and it wasn't enough.   WCS went #6... it would have taken at least 7 draft picks to move up that high to take him.  It seemed like a waste of assets to me... 

Instead of wasting assets to get WCS, why not just sign Bismack Biyombo.  Basically the same player and he was available for dirt cheap.  Why give up 7+ draft picks for WCS when you could just get 80% of WCS for basically nothing.   That was my point.  I fully stand by it.   Will WCS eventually surpass Biyombo?  Maybe.   But maybe Biyombo surpasses WCS.  Basically the same age.  Biyombo has a few years of NBA experience.  WCS has a few years of College experience.  Who knows how either will develop.  What we do know is that so far:

Biyombo:  4.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 21mpg  PRICE:  Basically free
WCS:  4.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks in 18.9mpg  - PRICE:  7+ draft picks

Basically the same player.  One was free... one would have cost tons of assets.   

We went with option 3... Amir Johnson for 12 million a year:  7.4 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 23mpg.  No problem.

Anytime you can get an older rich man's Biyombo/WCS for 12 million per year, you gotta do it. 

[LarBrd33]

It doesn't look like they sold low on Stauskas. That kid is awful. His defense is atrocious. At the rate he's going he'll be out of the league in a couple of years like Jimmer.

Stauskas has looked better his last couple games.  His stats are pretty similar to Marcus Smart this year.

No, he hasn't. He's looked awful. Kobe blew by him like Stauskas was the 37 year old. He's now coming off the bench for the worst team in the league and was traded for nothing. The Kings knew what they had in him and it isn't much. Sixers, at least coach Brown is, are seeing it also. You should start watching game more than relying solely on box scores. It'll give you a better idea of what's going on.

12 points, 4.7 rebounds, 4 assists, 2.2 steals 33%/24%/69%

 vs

12.4 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.1 steals 34%/30%/73%

Smart is clearly better... I was exaggerating. 

Nik's been dealing with injuries.  Shot 42%/42%/86% over the second half of last season.  I'd still guess that there is plenty of reason to believe his shot will eventually come around. It's not common for a shooter to completely forget how to shoot.  He's missing open shots.   Philly got him for nothing.   Good for them.  Classic low risk/high reward. 

[Eddie20]

None of my opinions this summer got more heat than the ones I had about Bismack Biyombo.  But I stand by them 100% and believe that they were mostly taken out of context.   

Here was my point...

Willie Cauley Stein was the player half this forum wanted.  We knew he was going higher than #16 and everyone was ready to go all-in and trade multiple picks to get him as our "center of the future".   

We know that we attempted to trade 6 draft picks (four of which were 1st rounders... one of which was a Brooklyn pick) just to trade up to #9 and it wasn't enough.   WCS went #6... it would have taken at least 7 draft picks to move up that high to take him.  It seemed like a waste of assets to me... 

Instead of wasting assets to get WCS, why not just sign Bismack Biyombo.  Basically the same player and he was available for dirt cheap.  Why give up 7+ draft picks for WCS when you could just get 80% of WCS for basically nothing.   That was my point.  I fully stand by it.   Will WCS eventually surpass Biyombo?  Maybe.   But maybe Biyombo surpasses WCS.  Basically the same age.  Biyombo has a few years of NBA experience.  WCS has a few years of College experience.  Who knows how either will develop.  What we do know is that so far:

Biyombo:  4.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 21mpg  PRICE:  Basically free
WCS:  4.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks in 18.9mpg  - PRICE:  7+ draft picks

Basically the same player.  One was free... one would have cost tons of assets.   

We went with option 3... Amir Johnson for 12 million a year:  7.4 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 23mpg.  No problem.

Anytime you can get an older rich man's Biyombo/WCS for 12 million per year, you gotta do it.

Clearly Johnson and Biyombo are on the same level. Which is why Johnson started in Toronto and Biyombo comes off the bench, save for a Jonas injury.

There you go again with your over reliance on stats. Do these stats also show the Biyombo has arguably the worst hands in the game, no range, low basketball IQ (including his defensive rotations), and an overall lack of skill? To his credit, Biyombo's effort does look better and he's always been a physically strong player that rebounds well

Edit:

I can't believe I overlooked the entertaining part where you were arguing with yourself about using a mythical 7 draft picks to select a player we might not have even been interested in drafting.

[Eddie20]

It doesn't look like they sold low on Stauskas. That kid is awful. His defense is atrocious. At the rate he's going he'll be out of the league in a couple of years like Jimmer.

Stauskas has looked better his last couple games.  His stats are pretty similar to Marcus Smart this year.

No, he hasn't. He's looked awful. Kobe blew by him like Stauskas was the 37 year old. He's now coming off the bench for the worst team in the league and was traded for nothing. The Kings knew what they had in him and it isn't much. Sixers, at least coach Brown is, are seeing it also. You should start watching game more than relying solely on box scores. It'll give you a better idea of what's going on.

12 points, 4.7 rebounds, 4 assists, 2.2 steals 33%/24%/69%

 vs

12.4 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.1 steals 34%/30%/73%

Smart is clearly better... I was exaggerating. 

Nik's been dealing with injuries.  Shot 42%/42%/86% over the second half of last season.  I'd still guess that there is plenty of reason to believe his shot will eventually come around. It's not common for a shooter to completely forget how to shoot.  He's missing open shots.   Philly got him for nothing.   Good for them.  Classic low risk/high reward.

No, but it is very common for certain players that lack athletic ability to not be able to create the spacing they need to shoot.

[TheFlex]

WCS is way better than Biyombo. Biyombo is hopeless from beyond 3 feet of the rim. WCS started showing a mid-range jumper in his last year of college and there's much better reason to believe he could develop a jumper than there is to believe Biyombo could.

WCS is also potentially a generational defender, while Biyombo's shot-blocking, albeit impressive, is just one part of WCS' truly superstar-level defensive effort. WCS has the size of a 5 and with his incredible perimeter defense and ability to recover thanks to elite foot speed, can complement any big defensively.

The Kings won't trade WCS for a mid-1st rounder and a pick that has a better shot of becoming couple 2nds than it does becoming a 1st.

[TheFlex]

Hey, while we're at it comparing Jimmer to Steph Curry and Biyombo to Willie Cauley-Stein, can I point out how ridiculous it would be for the Celts to bring back Jared Sullinger when they could get Jarnell Stokes on the cheap? 

[MBunge]

None of my opinions this summer got more heat than the ones I had about Bismack Biyombo.  But I stand by them 100% and believe that they were mostly taken out of context.   

Here was my point...

Willie Cauley Stein was the player half this forum wanted.  We knew he was going higher than #16 and everyone was ready to go all-in and trade multiple picks to get him as our "center of the future".   

We know that we attempted to trade 6 draft picks (four of which were 1st rounders... one of which was a Brooklyn pick) just to trade up to #9 and it wasn't enough.   WCS went #6... it would have taken at least 7 draft picks to move up that high to take him.  It seemed like a waste of assets to me... 

Instead of wasting assets to get WCS, why not just sign Bismack Biyombo.  Basically the same player and he was available for dirt cheap.  Why give up 7+ draft picks for WCS when you could just get 80% of WCS for basically nothing.   That was my point.  I fully stand by it.   Will WCS eventually surpass Biyombo?  Maybe.   But maybe Biyombo surpasses WCS.  Basically the same age.  Biyombo has a few years of NBA experience.  WCS has a few years of College experience.  Who knows how either will develop.  What we do know is that so far:

Biyombo:  4.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 21mpg  PRICE:  Basically free
WCS:  4.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks in 18.9mpg  - PRICE:  7+ draft picks

Basically the same player.  One was free... one would have cost tons of assets.   

We went with option 3... Amir Johnson for 12 million a year:  7.4 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 23mpg.  No problem.

Anytime you can get an older rich man's Biyombo/WCS for 12 million per year, you gotta do it.

As far as I recall, there is zero evidence Ainge was targeting WCS in the draft.  He was going after Winslow, so I don't know what this 7 draft picks stuff is about.  Ainge wasn't offering that.  No one who wanted WCS was suggesting giving up anything even remotely close to that.  Stop with the straw men.

Johnson is also, by virtually every advanced statistical measure, a MUCH better player than Biyombo.  Your boy is a dumpster fire on offense and isn't close to good enough in any other facet of the game to make up for it.  Johnson's larger and essentially expiring deal is also a more useful trading piece.

Biyombo is close to a bust given where he was drafted.  WCS may not be any better but stop beating this dead horse.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

None of my opinions this summer got more heat than the ones I had about Bismack Biyombo.  But I stand by them 100% and believe that they were mostly taken out of context.   

Here was my point...

Willie Cauley Stein was the player half this forum wanted.  We knew he was going higher than #16 and everyone was ready to go all-in and trade multiple picks to get him as our "center of the future".   

We know that we attempted to trade 6 draft picks (four of which were 1st rounders... one of which was a Brooklyn pick) just to trade up to #9 and it wasn't enough.   WCS went #6... it would have taken at least 7 draft picks to move up that high to take him.  It seemed like a waste of assets to me... 

Instead of wasting assets to get WCS, why not just sign Bismack Biyombo.  Basically the same player and he was available for dirt cheap.  Why give up 7+ draft picks for WCS when you could just get 80% of WCS for basically nothing.   That was my point.  I fully stand by it.   Will WCS eventually surpass Biyombo?  Maybe.   But maybe Biyombo surpasses WCS.  Basically the same age.  Biyombo has a few years of NBA experience.  WCS has a few years of College experience.  Who knows how either will develop.  What we do know is that so far:

Biyombo:  4.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 21mpg  PRICE:  Basically free
WCS:  4.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks in 18.9mpg  - PRICE:  7+ draft picks

Basically the same player.  One was free... one would have cost tons of assets.   

We went with option 3... Amir Johnson for 12 million a year:  7.4 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 23mpg.  No problem.

Anytime you can get an older rich man's Biyombo/WCS for 12 million per year, you gotta do it.

As far as I recall, there is zero evidence Ainge was targeting WCS in the draft.  He was going after Winslow, so I don't know what this 7 draft picks stuff is about.  Ainge wasn't offering that.  No one who wanted WCS was suggesting giving up anything even remotely close to that.  Stop with the straw men.

Johnson is also, by virtually every advanced statistical measure, a MUCH better player than Biyombo.  Your boy is a dumpster fire on offense and isn't close to good enough in any other facet of the game to make up for it.  Johnson's larger and essentially expiring deal is also a more useful trading piece.

Biyombo is close to a bust given where he was drafted.  WCS may not be any better but stop beating this dead horse.

Mike

I stand by it... Would have much rather signed Biyombo for nothing than give up half our assets to trade up for Willie Cauley Stein.   Basically the same player.   Rebound a little, defend a little, suck on offense.   

I was fine with blowing 12 mil on Amir though, because I understand the real value of that contract.  I doubt Amir is making 12 mil here next year.

[MBunge]

None of my opinions this summer got more heat than the ones I had about Bismack Biyombo.  But I stand by them 100% and believe that they were mostly taken out of context.   

Here was my point...

Willie Cauley Stein was the player half this forum wanted.  We knew he was going higher than #16 and everyone was ready to go all-in and trade multiple picks to get him as our "center of the future".   

We know that we attempted to trade 6 draft picks (four of which were 1st rounders... one of which was a Brooklyn pick) just to trade up to #9 and it wasn't enough.   WCS went #6... it would have taken at least 7 draft picks to move up that high to take him.  It seemed like a waste of assets to me... 

Instead of wasting assets to get WCS, why not just sign Bismack Biyombo.  Basically the same player and he was available for dirt cheap.  Why give up 7+ draft picks for WCS when you could just get 80% of WCS for basically nothing.   That was my point.  I fully stand by it.   Will WCS eventually surpass Biyombo?  Maybe.   But maybe Biyombo surpasses WCS.  Basically the same age.  Biyombo has a few years of NBA experience.  WCS has a few years of College experience.  Who knows how either will develop.  What we do know is that so far:

Biyombo:  4.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 21mpg  PRICE:  Basically free
WCS:  4.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks in 18.9mpg  - PRICE:  7+ draft picks

Basically the same player.  One was free... one would have cost tons of assets.   

We went with option 3... Amir Johnson for 12 million a year:  7.4 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.2 blocks in 23mpg.  No problem.

Anytime you can get an older rich man's Biyombo/WCS for 12 million per year, you gotta do it.

As far as I recall, there is zero evidence Ainge was targeting WCS in the draft.  He was going after Winslow, so I don't know what this 7 draft picks stuff is about.  Ainge wasn't offering that.  No one who wanted WCS was suggesting giving up anything even remotely close to that.  Stop with the straw men.

Johnson is also, by virtually every advanced statistical measure, a MUCH better player than Biyombo.  Your boy is a dumpster fire on offense and isn't close to good enough in any other facet of the game to make up for it.  Johnson's larger and essentially expiring deal is also a more useful trading piece.

Biyombo is close to a bust given where he was drafted.  WCS may not be any better but stop beating this dead horse.

Mike

I stand by it... Would have much rather signed Biyombo for nothing than give up half our assets to trade up for Willie Cauley Stein.   Basically the same player.   Rebound a little, defend a little, suck on offense.   

I was fine with blowing 12 mil on Amir though, because I understand the real value of that contract.  I doubt Amir is making 12 mil here next year.

And I'd rather date Kate Hudson that the hunchbacked girl who lives down the block.  So what?  Who was suggesting we give up half our assets for WCS?

Mike