Who would you rather have for the next 10 years Brad or DMC

[moiso]

See Pop and the success the Spurs have had....

uhh you mean the only coach that's been with the same team for what 20 yrs.? yeah that seems easy to replicate.

Well that's like having both Brad and Cousins.

[Big333223]

In a vacuum, you take the star player over the coach.

But, in this situation, Cousins is the type of player who can't be dropped into an unstable situation. He needs boundaries and direction. If getting Cousins was contingent on breaking up the continuity that would make Cousins most valuable in the first place, then getting him here wouldn't be worth losing a good coach.

[crimson_stallion]

If you were an up and coming team 25 (ish) years ago, and you were given the choice, would you take a 25 year old Hakeem Olajuwon, or would you take Phil Jackson?

I am hugely respectful of what Phil Jackson has achieved as a coach in this league, but given the choice I would have to take Hakeem.

Look at the Celtics last year and you will see what can be achieved with a great coach and a mediocre roster - an 8th seed in a weak Eastern Conference.

Look at the Cavs early in Lebron's career and you will see what can be achieved with a great player and a bunch of pretty mediocre coaches - a trip to the NBA finals.

So yeah, I'll take Cousins.  Easily.

[Eddie20]

See Pop and the success the Spurs have had....

uhh you mean the only coach that's been with the same team for what 20 yrs.? yeah that seems easy to replicate.

Isn't the thread title "the next 10 years"? My point is that when you have a talent on the sidelines like a Stevens it brings a culture to the franchise. That's not something that is easy to have. I would argue that it's harder to find a coach like Stevens than it is top talent. Now when you factor in the bad body language, constant sulking, and overall attitude of Cousins, it's simply a no brainer.

[crimson_stallion]

I would argue that it's harder to find a coach like Stevens than it is top talent. Now when you factor in the bad body language, constant sulking, and overall attitude of Cousins, it's simply a no brainer.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree.

Look at the teams who have one championships in the past 10 years.  How many of those teams had what would have been considered top tier coaches?  I can really only name one, that being the Spurs.

How many of those teams had top tier players?  Pretty much every one of them.

You can get to the finals if your head coach is merely 'pretty good', but it is nigh on impossible to make the NBA finals if your best player is merely 'pretty good'.

The Celtics won a title with a fresh big three and Doc Rivers as a coach.  When they had a less fresh big three and still had Doc Rivers as a coach in their final year, they missed the playoffs. 

A coach can only do so much.

Plus when you have a player as elite as Cousins, then even if it doesn't work out personality wise, there will always be other teams will to throw the world at you to get him in a trade.  Superstar players have huge value as trade assets, at the very least.  Dwight Howard has a terrible injury history and is a 10x bigger idiot than Cousins is, yet if Houston wanted to trade him now he would still bring a huge return.

Jordan and Kobe are almost famous for being terrible to work with and making life hell for other players, and yet they also have something like 9 championships between them. 

Likewise Lebron has displayed had bad body language, constant sulking and poor general attitude since the day he got into the NBA, and he has 3 championships to show for it.  Who do you think was the biggest reason for those titles - Lebron or Spolestra? 

[Moranis]

See Pop and the success the Spurs have had....

The Spurs have this guy called Duncan.  Maybe you have heard of him.

[crimson_stallion]

See Pop and the success the Spurs have had....

The Spurs have this guy called Duncan.  Maybe you have heard of him.

I heard they also had this David Robinson guy, and a few scrubs called Sean Elliot, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobilli and Kawhi Leonard.

Allegedly.

[DarkAzcura]

Some are looking at this too simplistically I think. Coaching is really important also. I'd give the edge to taking the talent over the coach, but in this case you have to act with extreme caution. With Stevens you know the Celtics have an incredibly stable environment. This is the exact kind of environment a player like Cousins would likely need to finally win some games. Without it, you are just the Kings again. What exactly did DMC and IT so together two years ago? Exactly. And that was with Rudy Gay for most of the season too. DMC has never won more than 30 games. Talent is incredibly important obviously but some perspective has to be applied here I think.

Does anyone really think GSW is winning that championship with Mark Jackson as coach? Heck no. Look at OKC. They stuck by Brooks year after year and easily have had some of the most elite talent in the league for the last 5 years but it has amounted to nothing really. You have to be careful when thinking about a hypothetical like this. Luckily it won't be some kind of ultimatum. If Cousins ever comes here, Stevens will hopefully be the perfect coach for him..

[wdleehi]

Some are looking at this too simplistically I think. Coaching is really important also. I'd give the edge to taking the talent over the coach, but in this case you have to act with extreme caution. With Stevens you know the Celtics have an incredibly stable environment. This is the exact kind of environment a player like Cousins would likely need to finally win some games. Without it, you are just the Kings again. What exactly did DMC and IT so together two years ago? Exactly. And that was with Rudy Gay for most of the season too. DMC has never won more than 30 games. Talent is incredibly important obviously but some perspective has to be applied here I think.

Does anyone really think GSW is winning that championship with Mark Jackson as coach? Heck no. Look at OKC. They stuck by Brooks year after year and easily have had some of the most elite talent in the league for the last 5 years but it has amounted to nothing really. You have to be careful when thinking about a hypothetical like this. Luckily it won't be some kind of ultimatum. If Cousins ever comes here, Stevens will hopefully be the perfect coach for him..

Isn't Golden State winning a bunch of games right now without last years head coach Kerr?

[Fafnir]

Some are looking at this too simplistically I think. Coaching is really important also. I'd give the edge to taking the talent over the coach, but in this case you have to act with extreme caution. With Stevens you know the Celtics have an incredibly stable environment. This is the exact kind of environment a player like Cousins would likely need to finally win some games. Without it, you are just the Kings again. What exactly did DMC and IT so together two years ago? Exactly. And that was with Rudy Gay for most of the season too. DMC has never won more than 30 games. Talent is incredibly important obviously but some perspective has to be applied here I think.

Does anyone really think GSW is winning that championship with Mark Jackson as coach? Heck no. Look at OKC. They stuck by Brooks year after year and easily have had some of the most elite talent in the league for the last 5 years but it has amounted to nothing really. You have to be careful when thinking about a hypothetical like this. Luckily it won't be some kind of ultimatum. If Cousins ever comes here, Stevens will hopefully be the perfect coach for him..

Isn't Golden State winning a bunch of games right now without last years head coach Kerr?

They are largely running the same stuff, same rotations, and same players though. And he's also active in doing a lot of the prep work as he can around his rehab.

But again players matter more. Mark Jackson was a bad coach, and he got the Warriors pretty far too.

[DarkAzcura]

Some are looking at this too simplistically I think. Coaching is really important also. I'd give the edge to taking the talent over the coach, but in this case you have to act with extreme caution. With Stevens you know the Celtics have an incredibly stable environment. This is the exact kind of environment a player like Cousins would likely need to finally win some games. Without it, you are just the Kings again. What exactly did DMC and IT so together two years ago? Exactly. And that was with Rudy Gay for most of the season too. DMC has never won more than 30 games. Talent is incredibly important obviously but some perspective has to be applied here I think.

Does anyone really think GSW is winning that championship with Mark Jackson as coach? Heck no. Look at OKC. They stuck by Brooks year after year and easily have had some of the most elite talent in the league for the last 5 years but it has amounted to nothing really. You have to be careful when thinking about a hypothetical like this. Luckily it won't be some kind of ultimatum. If Cousins ever comes here, Stevens will hopefully be the perfect coach for him..

Isn't Golden State winning a bunch of games right now without last years head coach Kerr?

They are largely running the same stuff, same rotations, and same players though. And he's also active in doing a lot of the prep work as he can around his rehab.

But again players matter more. Mark Jackson was a bad coach, and he got the Warriors pretty far too.

No doubt talent is very, very important, but in the case of DMC caution has to be used. He's not Hakeem, Robinson, etc. That Hakeem/Pop example someone used much earlier doesn't really work. Hakeem never had the attitude issues that DMC has. His talent is amazing, but his attitude is so poor that some questions have to be raised. I used to defend Pierce a lot and mostly said his lack of success in this league was due to poor ownership/management prior to Ainge, but at least Pierce was churning out 35+ wins with an ECF appearance thrown in there.

DMC's teams hasn't even won 30 games once yet to my knowledge. Can't put all of that on him, but questions should be raised at the least before anyone outright takes DMC over Stevens in this hypothetical. Remember, the Kings won 28 games in 2013-2014 with IT as their second option. The Celtics won 24 games over only 36 games with IT as their primary option for 70%+ of those games. It's alarming that the Celtics could almost match the Kings' win total for 13-14 in less than half the season by using their second option as our first option. You could say coaching was the issue in Sac, but there is now a pattern that no matter who is supporting DMC, they can't win over 30 games.

I've defended DMC's attitude in the past in the sense that I think he needs a strong ownership group and coaching staff to keep him focused. Without Stevens here, that becomes moot. Bring in a different coach whose personality you don't really understand, and who knows if he would work well with DMC. We've had 2+ years of Stevens now. If DMC came here and couldn't work within our system/figure it out, then we know all of those years of Sac sucking had more to do with DMC than we may have thought

But it is an odd poll because I have no idea why we would ever have to choose between the two.

[Tr1boy]

 I think I'll take the young bright coach, and not risk a potential blow up situation. What say you?

Not DMC that's for sure. What is with the hype regarding this man child (not in a good way)

[CsBanner18]

I refuse to choose one of the two options.

I don't think DMC would cause coach Stevens to leave. Reasons why:


1) Cousins knows he already has a reputation for a bad attitude, which is why I believe he'd come here ready to prove to the Celtics that he was not the main problem in SAC.

Stevens already has a great reputation; which includes excellent play calling and a poised character. Coming into a locker room where each player respects and listens to Brad, will most likely make Cousins fall in line. If for whatever reason he doesn't fall in line, he will be perceived as the problem--not Stevens.


2) The Celtics will definitely be a playoff team (unlike the Kings) after trading for DMC. We'll also still have assets left after the trade to further improve the team; as well as free agency. Our bright future should keep DMC content here in Boston.

[PhoSita]

How many games would the Warriors win if their bench was their starting lineup and their bench was a collection of similarly-talented bench players?

So ...

Livingston, Barbosa, Iguodala, Speights, Bogut.


I don't care how good the coach is.  Neither Kerr nor Popovich is getting 50 wins out of that team.


Players matter more than coaches.  Players determine the ceiling of a team.  Coaches determine how close a team can come to reaching its ceiling.

[Chris22]

No knuckleheads.