Author Topic: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me  (Read 13859 times)

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Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 07:30:36 PM »

Offline CelticSince83

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I've always thought Green was a good comp for him - both physically and mentally. Green went #5 And Wiggins very easily could have gone #3 if Embiid had been healthy and Bucks still wanted Parker (it was always a toss-up between the two).

Wiggins definitely still has the potential to be great, but a lot of the hype about him came after his high school years, not college. If he ends up like Green, it wouldn't be a colossal bust either - Green is a very good player, just not a star.

This, and the OP.  I went to KU and had season tickets for the 2013-14 season.  At times, I would honestly forget the guy was even on the team because he would disappear for half the game and constantly defer to Frank Mason.  I would get the same feeling watching him as I did Green- can someone please explain to this guy how good he could be if he were more aggressive?  Which is kind of alarming for someone who was being touted as the best prospect post LBJ.  I just don't think he has that killer instinct.  He also has zero ball handling skills, which is a problem at the NBA level where an incredible first step will only get you so far... 

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2015, 08:13:28 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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He'll be a star

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2015, 09:13:26 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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13.8 ppg, 4 rpg, 6.95 per, and shooting 29% fg's, 11% 3pt fg's so far this year .

I said it last year that I wasn't really impressed by him and thought he was kind of soft and passive . People on here insisted he is going to be a star, but i'm just not seeing it . His ceiling to me at this point is Demar Derozen .

Why is he struggling so much?

I've been saying even before the Draft that I didn't see Wiggins being as good as everybody was hyping him up to be.

Everybody else was making comparisons to Lebron James - I was thinking more like DeMarr Derozan.

I think he'll be a very good player - he'll probably make an All-Star team at some point in his career, and he'll constantly be in the discussion.  I just don't think he's ever going to be a franchise player or an MVP candidate.

Why?

Well, those top tier franchise/MVP/superstar players are typically guys who can impact a game in a lot of ways, or else they are absolutely the top tier of offensive talent.

I look at Wiggins, and he's got a lot of limitations.  I think his passing ability is nothing special, his ball handling ability is pretty average, he's not a standout rebounder, his defense so far hasn't lived up to the hype.  He's also only an 'ok' shooter rather than great one (as has always been the case with him) and from what I've seen he's not all that much of a post presence.  most of his scoring seems to come from his athleticism.

When I look at other guys who are serious superstars, they all do a ton of things.  Durant can score, rebound, pass.  Same with Lebron.  Same with Carmelo.  Same with Kobe, Harden, Westbrook, Duncan, KG, Kevin Love, Paul Pierce.  Guys like Curry and Wall can score, and are also great playmakers.

With Wiggins, I just don't see that second 'impact' area leaping out at me.

At least Parker can score and rebound, and is a solid passer.  Once his shots start to fall, he has potential to be a star.

I really don't see him ever becoming a bust though - I think he'll always be one of those guys who averages 17 - 20 PPG. 

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2015, 09:15:12 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Wouldn't he be getting way better looks with the Cavs? If Lebron James can make boobie Gibson like a starting calibar nba player, and mo williams an all-star, I have to imagine Wiggins would look mighty good playing next to him. I would be more interested in how he has looked on defense, because the scouting report was that he was most advanced in that part of the game.

I think the reports on who won the trade were centered around it being a disaster if Love left for nothing. Since that didn't happen, it certainly is not a disaster for the Cavs.

I think Wiggins is better off over in Minnesota, with less media attention.  I don't think it's good for any rookie to be on a team with Lebron - his teams always demand way too much media attention (often not positive, either) and I don't think you ever want a rookie to but put under that type of spotlight/microscope.  It's a lot of pressure. 

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2015, 09:20:24 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I think Parker will ultimately be the better of the two.  Parker reminds me of Pierce.

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2015, 09:24:02 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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You may want to give Wiggins a bit of a break. Kind of a tumultuous season so far.

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Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2015, 11:58:20 AM »

Online Moranis

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Wiggins skill set has always been more on defense.  He was never going to be a take over a game offensive player.  He will be a fine scorer, but will never be elite.  Defense takes longer to come into focus and is harder to measure, but Wiggins can still be an elite defender with a solid overall offensive game.  Think of him like the reverse of Carmelo Anthony.
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Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2015, 12:50:12 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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5 games in, shooting slump, playing 8 less minutes per game than last year so far, way too early too tell.

His Per 36 in scoring is on par with his last year's averages. He's inefficient right now, for sure, but that could change in the next couple of weeks.
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Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 01:06:00 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I've always thought Green was a good comp for him - both physically and mentally. Green went #5 And Wiggins very easily could have gone #3 if Embiid had been healthy and Bucks still wanted Parker (it was always a toss-up between the two).

Wiggins definitely still has the potential to be great, but a lot of the hype about him came after his high school years, not college. If he ends up like Green, it wouldn't be a colossal bust either - Green is a very good player, just not a star.

This, and the OP.  I went to KU and had season tickets for the 2013-14 season.  At times, I would honestly forget the guy was even on the team because he would disappear for half the game and constantly defer to Frank Mason.  I would get the same feeling watching him as I did Green- can someone please explain to this guy how good he could be if he were more aggressive?  Which is kind of alarming for someone who was being touted as the best prospect post LBJ.  I just don't think he has that killer instinct.  He also has zero ball handling skills, which is a problem at the NBA level where an incredible first step will only get you so far...

exactly. You get it.  Some other fans don't understand , you can't just turn on the light switch and become the next Kobe/Lebron

Marcus Thornton plays with more fire than Wiggins.   

Wiggins will get his stats but trying to depend on him late in games or during a crucial series will be a bad idea. He will be a very good #2, #3 guy down the line.  And it will be better for him to play with a #1 or alpha dog type player on the same team

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2015, 02:10:41 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I've always thought Green was a good comp for him - both physically and mentally. Green went #5 And Wiggins very easily could have gone #3 if Embiid had been healthy and Bucks still wanted Parker (it was always a toss-up between the two).

Wiggins definitely still has the potential to be great, but a lot of the hype about him came after his high school years, not college. If he ends up like Green, it wouldn't be a colossal bust either - Green is a very good player, just not a star.

This, and the OP.  I went to KU and had season tickets for the 2013-14 season.  At times, I would honestly forget the guy was even on the team because he would disappear for half the game and constantly defer to Frank Mason.  I would get the same feeling watching him as I did Green- can someone please explain to this guy how good he could be if he were more aggressive?  Which is kind of alarming for someone who was being touted as the best prospect post LBJ.  I just don't think he has that killer instinct.  He also has zero ball handling skills, which is a problem at the NBA level where an incredible first step will only get you so far...

exactly. You get it.  Some other fans don't understand , you can't just turn on the light switch and become the next Kobe/Lebron

Marcus Thornton plays with more fire than Wiggins.   

Wiggins will get his stats but trying to depend on him late in games or during a crucial series will be a bad idea. He will be a very good #2, #3 guy down the line.  And it will be better for him to play with a #1 or alpha dog type player on the same team

Doesn't mean he can't be a star. Klay Thompson is not the alpha dog, but he's still a star. Why can't Andrew Wiggins be a star, especially with his potential on defense.
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Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2015, 02:36:12 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I've always thought Green was a good comp for him - both physically and mentally. Green went #5 And Wiggins very easily could have gone #3 if Embiid had been healthy and Bucks still wanted Parker (it was always a toss-up between the two).

Wiggins definitely still has the potential to be great, but a lot of the hype about him came after his high school years, not college. If he ends up like Green, it wouldn't be a colossal bust either - Green is a very good player, just not a star.

This, and the OP.  I went to KU and had season tickets for the 2013-14 season.  At times, I would honestly forget the guy was even on the team because he would disappear for half the game and constantly defer to Frank Mason.  I would get the same feeling watching him as I did Green- can someone please explain to this guy how good he could be if he were more aggressive?  Which is kind of alarming for someone who was being touted as the best prospect post LBJ.  I just don't think he has that killer instinct.  He also has zero ball handling skills, which is a problem at the NBA level where an incredible first step will only get you so far...

exactly. You get it.  Some other fans don't understand , you can't just turn on the light switch and become the next Kobe/Lebron

Marcus Thornton plays with more fire than Wiggins.   

Wiggins will get his stats but trying to depend on him late in games or during a crucial series will be a bad idea. He will be a very good #2, #3 guy down the line.  And it will be better for him to play with a #1 or alpha dog type player on the same team

Doesn't mean he can't be a star. Klay Thompson is not the alpha dog, but he's still a star. Why can't Andrew Wiggins be a star, especially with his potential on defense.

Klay Thompson is not a star in my books. Without Steph can he carry GSW team?

It's bc if Steph he gets the open looks he does.

A star imo is harden, curry, Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Westbrook etc

When things are bad or your team stinks you will  "cheat" wins.

Wiggins during tough games has not been able to come through. He can get frustrated and passive.  Mental strength is not there. 

Some guys refuse to lose and won't accept loses easily. Wiggins as I have see him is "hoping" something happens or someone to "cheat" a win. Vs be the guy who takes the bull by the horn

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2015, 03:34:38 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I've always thought Green was a good comp for him - both physically and mentally. Green went #5 And Wiggins very easily could have gone #3 if Embiid had been healthy and Bucks still wanted Parker (it was always a toss-up between the two).

Wiggins definitely still has the potential to be great, but a lot of the hype about him came after his high school years, not college. If he ends up like Green, it wouldn't be a colossal bust either - Green is a very good player, just not a star.

This, and the OP.  I went to KU and had season tickets for the 2013-14 season.  At times, I would honestly forget the guy was even on the team because he would disappear for half the game and constantly defer to Frank Mason.  I would get the same feeling watching him as I did Green- can someone please explain to this guy how good he could be if he were more aggressive?  Which is kind of alarming for someone who was being touted as the best prospect post LBJ.  I just don't think he has that killer instinct.  He also has zero ball handling skills, which is a problem at the NBA level where an incredible first step will only get you so far...

exactly. You get it.  Some other fans don't understand , you can't just turn on the light switch and become the next Kobe/Lebron

Marcus Thornton plays with more fire than Wiggins.   

Wiggins will get his stats but trying to depend on him late in games or during a crucial series will be a bad idea. He will be a very good #2, #3 guy down the line.  And it will be better for him to play with a #1 or alpha dog type player on the same team

Doesn't mean he can't be a star. Klay Thompson is not the alpha dog, but he's still a star. Why can't Andrew Wiggins be a star, especially with his potential on defense.

Klay Thompson is not a star in my books. Without Steph can he carry GSW team?

It's bc if Steph he gets the open looks he does.

A star imo is harden, curry, Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Westbrook etc

When things are bad or your team stinks you will  "cheat" wins.

Wiggins during tough games has not been able to come through. He can get frustrated and passive.  Mental strength is not there. 

Some guys refuse to lose and won't accept loses easily. Wiggins as I have see him is "hoping" something happens or someone to "cheat" a win. Vs be the guy who takes the bull by the horn

So by star, you mean franchise type players? If that's the case then I agree.

Even coming out of college, his main weakness is he's not assertive, and to be a franchise player, you need to have that mentality.

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Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2015, 04:29:25 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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You know this whole argument about Andrew Wiggins being a star takes me back to the old Paul Pierce days. I'm not hating on the Truth. He was the first Celtic superstar I ever got to root for and I'll always love #34 till the day I die, but lest we forget, there was a time and place when Paul Pierce was a total jackass. We all knew he had the tools to be a superstar, but remember when he did this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo

It was crunchtime and the Celtics were up 1, and Pierce, who should have known he was going to get fouled and just taken it, inexplicably shoved Tinsley down (Tinsley sold it but Pierce overreacted), which not only got Pierce ejected from the game, but it also got the Pacers to choose who they wanted to shoot the free throws from the foul. They ended up choosing young Kendrick Perkins and though I can't remember the exact details, the Pacers ended up tying the game to go to overtime. Though the Celtics ended up winning, the damage was done. Pierce had almost cost them the series with that one dumb play, and to make matters worse, he tried to make himself look like the victim by taping his jaw at his press conference.

It was at that time that we all questioned whether or not this idiot was really our "franchise player". Did he show he was one of the better players in the league and that he could deliver when the game was on the line? Yup, but whether or not he had the mental strength to put the team above himself during a playoff run was the big question. Compare that to say Kobe and Shaq. They hated each other and both wanted to assume the alpha dog role, but they managed to put their differences aside and get the Lakers 3 straight titles. They could get over themselves for their team. Could Pierce do that? At the time, we all thought no and it was time to move on. Not even Danny believed in Pierce. He had a deal in place to send Pierce to Portland for the #3 pick in the draft (which was going to be Chris Paul) and Nick Van Exel's contract (which was going to be waived) before Pierce told Portland he'd make them miserable if they traded for him. We were stuck with him, which at the time, was not something that we wanted.

However, the next year, Pierce changed. He didn't act like a moron anymore. Even though his supporting cast was weak, he put the team on his back and played like an MVP candidate and better yet, played like the guy we all knew he could be. The Celtics weren't good by any means and if say Kobe or Dwight Howard were in Pierce's situation, they would have begged for a trade. That was what stood out about Pierce. He embraced the leadership role and never complained about being the lone superstar on a subpar team. Pierce hit his full potential. Not just because he had the tools, but because mentally he evolved, which makes me love the fact that Pierce would lead that same team to a championship a mere 2 years later.

Oddly enough, we're starting to see the same change in Jared Sullinger. Before he looked like a kid that was good but was going to eat himself out of the league, but since the season has started, he's looked arguably like the Celtics best player. He looks committed. He looks like he's worked on his defense. He looks like he's working on sticking to what he's good at. No, Sully does not have as high potential to be the Hall-of-Fame player like Pierce is, but he can be a great player for this team in the future. Then again, we don't know what the future holds and for all we know, this is just to get a new contract, but we will see.

The point is, nobody knows what the future holds for Andrew Wiggins. The guy just started his second season and is playing for a franchise that up until now, had no high potential as a team since the early KG days. The general consensus from last season was that Wiggins was a sure thing and was a superstar in the making. He has 4 games of not quite good basketball and all the sudden those same concerns about him not having "it" come crawling back? People, the season is 82 games and Wiggins has a whole career ahead of him. We have yet to see him play in the playoffs and probably won't for another year or two. I'm not saying that he doesn't have his own issues. I see that, but just because a player may have certain issues does not mean he can't get over them. Paul Pierce did. Jeff Green didn't. Jared Sullinger might, but that's on them. I believe Wiggins can, but whether or not he does, is up to him.

One last tidbit. James Harden is regarded as a superstar, and I believe he is, but since there's been a lot of talk about "mental strength" holding Wiggins back, why don't we look at the Beard himself? Harden, despite claiming over and over again that he was the MVP last season, is notorious for being a joke defensively and during his breakout season with the Thunder, no-showed in the 2012 finals against the Heat, but that's not the biggest concern to me for Harden being a so-called superstar. The biggest concern to me was game 6 of the Western Conference semis last season, aka, the Rockets comeback. Remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS-4u6LkW7A

You know the one player who didn't aid that comeback? That's right! James Harden! Everyone else aided that surge except for him, but that's not what stood out to me about Harden. Not only did Harden not help the cause, but from what I read, he checked out. His body language had shown that he had given up. Granted they were down by a fair margin, but since superstars are supposed to have the "mental strength" to win, Harden should have kept his head up and kept at it. It wasn't just that he looked like he was done trying, but when his teammates started cutting at the lead, it wasn't until they had cut it very close that Harden started cheering them on. Would KG have done that? Nope. He would have cheered them on from the start. So as far as "mental strength" goes, even the most talented players can have their struggles with mental strength.

Wiggins is a talented player. Whether or not he will have "it" in the near future we will see, but now it's too early to tell because he's a sophomore. People seriously questioned KG, Dirk, Shaq, and even Lebron if they really had "it". Those guys learned from their failures and eventually got over the hump. I believe Wiggins will have his mishaps, but I think he'll follow the same path as the others mentioned, but that is all up to Andrew Wiggins, not me.

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2015, 05:21:24 PM »

Offline mctyson

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He'll be a star

Is there a player drafted in the top 5 that you don't think will be a star?  Because most of them are not.

Re: Wiggins doesn't look like a star to me
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2015, 08:25:38 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Wiggins looking incredible tonight, outside of a mini-slump halfway through.  And VERY engaged. Night and day.