Celtics: Worst team in the NBA, or worst team in history of human civilization?

[Evantime34]

This team will get better, but it won't be until Stevens decides on a good 9 or 10 man rotation. Coming into the season the idea was that our depth would bring us more wins than our talent would dictate, thus far in the year it has cost us wins because no one looks comfortable in their role.

Once players are more comfortable with who they are playing with turnovers will come down and defensive rotations will become crisper, resulting in less opposing offensive rebounds.

[Surferdad]

Realistically this team just isn't all that great. They still have a bunch of average to above average role players 1-12. Even with a good coach who can get the most out of them, they aren't particularly all that great.

Guys like Crowder, Zeller, Bradley, KO, Sullinger, Johnson, Lee, Turner. Put them on a contender and they are all 7th or 8th men. And those are the guys that are getting the bulk of out minutes. Second half of last year we had such an easy schedule, and got on a hot streak, of course we were going to have nice success. I see this team as peaking at .500 this year, of course depending on what happens at the trade deadline.

I mostly agree, they are just not all that great however I do think they end up over .500. In any case, I don't think there have been any surprises so far. They beat the Knicks, lost to Toronto but were competitive, lost to SA and trailed the whole way, and lost to Indiana in a game they could have won.

None of this is a surprise.   This team needs another shooter and I would like that to come from the SF position. I love Jae Crowder but would prefer to have him as the backup SF who would inject defense and energy into the game.

[JHTruth]

Just not living up to (unrealistic) expectations many had for this team due to the late-season hot streak they got on.

This team is simply not that good. Not Lakers awful but not much better. They play hard and as a team but seriously lacking in talent. I saw this coming as soon as we struck out in FA.  Oh well, let's tank and get some high lotto picks..

[PhoSita]

I really wonder if all those positive previews and win projections for the team in the offseason are the reason. The players are no longer playing with house money. Expectations are for them to be a playoff team.

I believe this is at least part of what's going on -- on both sides of the ball.

The Celts aren't taking teams by surprise anymore.  Nobody is coming into games against the Celtics thinking of them as a team that had a bottom 5 record the year before and that traded its "best" players early on in the season.

Instead, this is the team that made a surprise run to the playoffs, led by a wunderkind coach, a team that's supposed to win way more games than you'd expect considering they don't have anybody worthy of All-Star consideration on the roster.

Teams have also had a lot more time to watch tape of this group of Celtics and prepare for the way the Celts like to play.  Last year, opponents that were used to defending a Rondo-led team that heavily featured Jeff Green had to deal with a team that had Isaiah Thomas and Evan Turner taking turns leading a much faster paced attack.

Then you have the Celtics side of things.  So many guys on this team -- Turner, Lee, Sullinger, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko -- are playing for their next contract.  They are basically auditioning every night for a starting role somewhere, whether that's here or elsewhere. 

On top of that we've got so many guys who have "earned" a spot in the rotation that the minutes are constantly changing.  The roles for most of the players, with the exception perhaps of Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Avery Bradley, are in a permanent state of flux.


Take all of that into consideration, and it's not so surprising that the team has struggled so far.  Yes, as you point out, the record is not especially surprising given the teams they've faced.  They beat one team they should have beaten, they lost to a couple teams that should have beaten them, and they lost one close game that should have been a toss-up.

At the same time, they've also looked bad.  Even against the Sixers, the Celts really haven't been able to put together even a full quarter of nice looking basketball.  That's concerning for a team that was "supposed" to be this year's Atlanta Hawks.

[PhoSita]

2) The one thing dragging down the team right now is the most fixable: shooting.

I have to disagree here.

This was a bad shooting team last year (bottom 5 in the league in three point percentage), and who did they add in the off-season to help that?  Amir Johnson?  David Lee?  We're basically depending on major improvement from mediocre shooters like Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Jared Sullinger, or consistency from young guys who have not demonstrated that trait so far in their careers, like Kelly Olynyk and RJ Hunter, to turn around the shooting on this team.

There will be nights when the Celts hit a lot of outside shots, but on the whole I think this is another year where the team aspires to take a lot of shots and punish teams from outside, but the skillset won't be there to make it really work very often.

[oldtype]

2) The one thing dragging down the team right now is the most fixable: shooting.

I have to disagree here.

This was a bad shooting team last year (bottom 5 in the league in three point percentage), and who did they add in the off-season to help that?  Amir Johnson?  David Lee?  We're basically depending on major improvement from mediocre shooters like Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Jared Sullinger, or consistency from young guys who have not demonstrated that trait so far in their careers, like Kelly Olynyk and RJ Hunter, to turn around the shooting on this team.

There will be nights when the Celts hit a lot of outside shots, but on the whole I think this is another year where the team aspires to take a lot of shots and punish teams from outside, but the skillset won't be there to make it really work very often.

This is a bad shooting team but the shooting numbers on open shots for the first four games hasn't just been bad, it's been ridiculous. Once that regresses to the mean we should look a little better.

Not satisfied with the overall level of play, but the team isn't as bad as it looks right now.

[D Dub]

I'm pretty sure the 2015-16 Los Angeles Lakers are the worst team in the history of human civilization. 

[spikelovetheCelts]

I'm pretty sure the 2015-16 Los Angeles Lakers are the worst team in the history of human civilization.

I am hoping it is the Brooklyn nets

[SHAQATTACK]

I'm pretty sure the 2015-16 Los Angeles Lakers are the worst team in the history of human civilization.

I am hoping it is the Brooklyn nets

They will ....if Lopez slips on a banana peel.....LOL

[Evantime34]

2) The one thing dragging down the team right now is the most fixable: shooting.

I have to disagree here.

This was a bad shooting team last year (bottom 5 in the league in three point percentage), and who did they add in the off-season to help that?  Amir Johnson?  David Lee?  We're basically depending on major improvement from mediocre shooters like Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Jared Sullinger, or consistency from young guys who have not demonstrated that trait so far in their careers, like Kelly Olynyk and RJ Hunter, to turn around the shooting on this team.

There will be nights when the Celts hit a lot of outside shots, but on the whole I think this is another year where the team aspires to take a lot of shots and punish teams from outside, but the skillset won't be there to make it really work very often.

This is a bad shooting team but the shooting numbers on open shots for the first four games hasn't just been bad, it's been ridiculous. Once that regresses to the mean we should look a little better.

Not satisfied with the overall level of play, but the team isn't as bad as it looks right now.

31.8% on open shots, you have to believe that will improve.

[PhoSita]

2) The one thing dragging down the team right now is the most fixable: shooting.

I have to disagree here.

This was a bad shooting team last year (bottom 5 in the league in three point percentage), and who did they add in the off-season to help that?  Amir Johnson?  David Lee?  We're basically depending on major improvement from mediocre shooters like Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Jared Sullinger, or consistency from young guys who have not demonstrated that trait so far in their careers, like Kelly Olynyk and RJ Hunter, to turn around the shooting on this team.

There will be nights when the Celts hit a lot of outside shots, but on the whole I think this is another year where the team aspires to take a lot of shots and punish teams from outside, but the skillset won't be there to make it really work very often.

This is a bad shooting team but the shooting numbers on open shots for the first four games hasn't just been bad, it's been ridiculous. Once that regresses to the mean we should look a little better.

Not satisfied with the overall level of play, but the team isn't as bad as it looks right now.

I agree it'll improve -- they won't keep bricking so many open shots -- but this team is probably never going to be a "good" perimeter shooting team as constructed.

[BASS_THUMPER]

If Avery would have hit that jumper
we wouldnt have this thread..

i enjoy watching this team
and we all know by now this team never tanks
we will make the playoffs

[crimson_stallion]

I said as much in the game thread last night in terms of their current record in relation to who they've played so far.

Record is going to get a lot worse too because they play a lot of teams coming up in the next few weeks that are better than they are.

There is another possibility

1) It will work to their advantage, and playing so many tough games early on will only force them to work hard, play harder, and improve faster.

If Boston played 10 straight games against Philly and Brooklyn, they would probably be sitting there right now with a great win record, and a huge (and misled) sense of confidence.

Instead they are playing something like 9 straight games against teams with playoff aspirations. It's only a matter of time before their pride and competitive nature forces them to come out and say "no more losses - this stops now!" and to come together and start winning games.  When they do that, the will be winning games against playoff caliber teams.  Then when the tough stretch is over and they are back to playing average teams, they will destroy them.

OR

2) They will go on a really long losing streak, start doubting themselves, lose confidence, start to fall apart, and leave Danny with no choice but to start forcing trades / roster changes.

They say "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger".  Well this tough opening schedule will either kill the Celtics, or else it will make them very, very good.  Lets come back to this 5 or 6 games from now and see which of those comes true.
 

[crimson_stallion]

Not satisfied with the overall level of play, but the team isn't as bad as it looks right now.

This is very true, and perhaps the greatest indicator of this is point differential.

Boston's 1-3 win record ranks them 13th (or second last) in the East, but their point differential of -0.8 ranks them 9th in the East.  This indicates that the team is significantly better than their record suggests. 

In fact the Win DIFF of Boston (1-3 / -0.8 ), Charlotte (1-3 / +2.5) and Orlando (1-4 / -1.0) indicate that all three of those teams are stronger than their record suggests. 

On the other hand the Win DIFF for Wizards (+0.5 / 3-1), Bulls (-1.4 / 3-2), Pacers (-4.6 / 2-3) and Bucks (-7.6 / 2-3) indicate those teams are not nearly as good as their records suggest.

Boston's point differential suggests they should be right up there fighting for a top 8 spot, which is fairly encouraging if you consider how much they have been struggling thus far.

[Greyman]

Not having players who can be relied upon to score points consistently is the problem so far, along with some soft defence. Things will improve I expect and 45 or more wins is still possible. I don't expect miracles though and I won't be surprised if we fall short of expectations. While the season may not be a tank it is still 'rebuild' time and this team has a couple of flaws that other teams will take advantage of.

Another 10 or so games might give us  a big enough sample to know where the team is and how much individuals have improved.