Not a single starter

[Who]

I would look at it as "there is not a single above average starter on this team".

[takeittotherim]

No way Crowder would start for the Grizzlies.  He's not going to start in front of Tony Allen.

[cltc5]

I like Thomas and smart to start. Crowder at sf with sully and/Amir or zeller.  2nd unit...turner, Avery, hunter or olynyk at sf with lee and zeller at center.  And e need to play these young guys hunter roZier and Mickey woulda been just as effective especially against Toronto.

[max215]

Smart and Bradley would both fit nicely in OKC's starting lineup.

[PhoSita]

I would look at it as "there is not a single above average starter on this team".

Yeah, that's a good way to put it, too.

[PhoSita]

I think IT could go to a number of teams and be a big boon to their second unit, but on a good team he wouldn't be a key part of the game plan.  It's fair to wonder how happy IT would be on a team where he was "just" a bench scorer and not the primary scoring option anytime he hits the floor, as he is for the Celts.

Are the Jazz good? Couldn't you see IT starting for the Jazz and being their primary scorer?

Eh.  I'm not sure IT is a very good fit for the Jazz, seeing as their best wing player likes the ball in his hands and they have two huge dudes operating down low much of the time.

I don't doubt that if he was on that team, he'd play a big part in their offense, but I think that says more about how mediocre the Jazz offense is than anything else.

I think the Jazz are a quality backcourt away from being genuinely good.  They'll win a number of games with smothering defense, though.

[djbilly33]

I love the Celtics, always have, always will, 28 years and counting. However I would agree with this thread, there isn't a starter on this team. We have a bunch of bench players, some with starter capabilities but not a permanent starter, like Lee, Thomas or Johnson. This team sucks we got lucky last year because the east sucked. We need 3 stars on this team to be a contender and we haven't had that since ray kg and paul left. We are no better off than we were 3 years ago. Fans need to seriously give up on AB, he sucks, deer in headlights, needs to go. Should not be starting! Marcus Smart needs to figure out what the hell he is doing, he is not living up to a lottery pick. Zeller to skinny, Kelly sucks. Sullinger is lazy and lee is over the hill. Minus IT who can be shut down like he was in the playoffs, give me one player who can put up 20+ points a night? No one. Name a player who can stop Anthony Davis, Lebron, KD? No one. We need to wake up as fans and realize this team isn't going anywhere and lacks the talent needed to make a little noise. Danny needs to give up on trying to get a lottery pick cuz it isn't happening. Trade some of these guys away for some talent so we can get back to the promise land!!

[jpotter33]

I've always thought the "not a starter" argument for our team was really weak and illogical, because of course there are guys that could start on contending teams in the right context. Just look at players like Derek Fisher, Jason Terry, Kendrick Perkins, Danny Green, Udonis Haslem, etc.

It's a totally subjective claim to make, because you could make the case that we have roughly five guys or so that could start on contending teams, even having a couple of players that could start on the same contending team together.

I think Who's definition of "above average starter" is better, but even that is an arbitrary concept to impose that will involve subjective standards. What is considered to be an average starter? An above average starter?

Sure, we have no "stars" on our teams, which is again a subjective concept (could a Sixth Man of the Year Winner be considered a star?). However, to say we have no true starters on our team is extremely short-sighted and just displays a lack of understanding of the importance of team fit, role, and chemistry.

[Tr1boy]

No way Crowder would start for the Grizzlies.  He's not going to start in front of Tony Allen.

Crowder is like Rudy. Playing out of his mind through hardwork. But in the end he is a 6 in the skill department

CBS is making a fatal mistake starting him.  He will soon be coming off the bench

[Who]

I think Who's definition of "above average starter" is better, but even that is an arbitrary concept to impose that will involve subjective standards. What is considered to be an average starter? An above average starter?

I would rank the 30 starters at each position (PG, SG, SF, PF, C) in the league.

An average starter is around 15th best at their respective position and an above average would be higher than that. Below average put solid starter I generally put in the 17-23 bracket.

Then there are usually anywhere from 3-4 to 5-6 guys who are really out of their depth as a starter at each position and are a liability for their respective teams in that role and really belong in a bench role ... while there are also some players in bench roles who could be valued starters if given the opportunity.

That is how I define who I consider to be an average to above average starter.

[sofutomygaha]

I think Who's definition of "above average starter" is better, but even that is an arbitrary concept to impose that will involve subjective standards. What is considered to be an average starter? An above average starter?

I would rank the 30 starters at each position (PG, SG, SF, PF, C) in the league.

An average starter is around 15th best at their respective position and an above average would be higher than that. Below average put solid starter I generally put in the 17-23 bracket.

Then there are usually anywhere from 3-4 to 5-6 guys who are really out of their depth as a starter at each position and are a liability for their respective teams in that role and really belong in a bench role ... while there are also some players in bench roles who could be valued starters if given the opportunity.

That is how I define who I consider to be an average to above average starter.

There are plenty of analytic models, at least, that ranked Smart in the top 15 point guards last year. Some also ranked Olynyk among the top 15 centers, but he was not starting. Those would be our only two serious candidates.

[PhoSita]

I think Who's definition of "above average starter" is better, but even that is an arbitrary concept to impose that will involve subjective standards. What is considered to be an average starter? An above average starter?

I would rank the 30 starters at each position (PG, SG, SF, PF, C) in the league.

An average starter is around 15th best at their respective position and an above average would be higher than that. Below average put solid starter I generally put in the 17-23 bracket.

Then there are usually anywhere from 3-4 to 5-6 guys who are really out of their depth as a starter at each position and are a liability for their respective teams in that role and really belong in a bench role ... while there are also some players in bench roles who could be valued starters if given the opportunity.

That is how I define who I consider to be an average to above average starter.

There are plenty of analytic models, at least, that ranked Smart in the top 15 point guards last year. Some also ranked Olynyk among the top 15 centers, but he was not starting. Those would be our only two serious candidates.

RPM is nice and all, and I love Smart, but I wouldn't say he was anywhere close to a top 15 point guard last year.  Still got a ways to go.


What's an "average" starter at each position?


Point guard -- Kemba / D-Will / Brandon Jennings
Shooting guard -- CJ Miles / Gerald Henderson / Eric Gordon
Small Forward -- Luol Deng / Jeff Green / PJ Tucker
Power forward -- Amir Johnson / Donatas Motiejunas / Markieff Morris
Center -- Timofey Mozgov / Robin Lopez / Omer Asik

[Rondo9]

Honestly many players on this team would start on other teams, even if they aren't the focal point of the offense.

[Rondo9]

Man this team lacks talent.

If you want to see a team that lacks talent, watch the Lakers and notice the difference.

[chambers]

Well if you replaced 2 of our 5 starting positions with top 20 players, then I'd argue you could easily interchange each position and they'd all be able to start except maybe Zeller.

Smart
Bradley
Durant
Lee
Gasol

Smart
Harden
Crowder
Amir
Bosh

etc...

We don't lack talent, we lack All Star talent- which every contender generally has multiple forms of.
And that's obviously the plan isn't it?-
Add some superstar pieces to this roster and keep the cheap, reliable 'talented' role players like Bradley and Crowder and IT here on their nice contracts so we can spend as much money on the true All Star/top 20 player pieces that will take us to the next level.
Try and develop guys like Crowder, Hunter, Rozier into DeMare Carroll caliber players or even better.

I'd argue that we do have a serious talent in Marcus Smart, he just needs more time to fulfill that destiny before we see if he's a DeMare Carroll level talent or a Chauncey Billups level talent.

All Star talent doesn't just grow on trees. You've got to draft it or trade for it and both those opportunities don't just happen on cue each season. Contenders take years to build.