So thoughts on Noel and Okafor

[PhoSita]

Not sure why there is so much discussion about teams (Sixers and Lakers) that are so far beneath us. It's akin to Warriors fans talking about the Celtics and Bucks non-stop.

Well, the Lakers are the Celtics' nemesis, so it's only natural for us to keep an eye on how things are going for them.

Because of that, I think there's a heightened anxiety among some Celtics fans that the Lakers will end up with one or more stars before the Celts ever get one, despite the fact that the Celts are doing things the "right" way and not putting a horrible, poorly coached team on the floor.

In the same vein, I think the focus has been and will continue to be on Philly because they started their rebuild around the same time and have employed a different rebuilding strategy (i.e. they've tanked their pants off). 

Philly will continue to be a fascinating parallel for the Celts' rebuild, and visa versa, until it's been long enough to officially make some kind of determination about which strategy has proven to be more "successful" or "correct."

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Not sure why there is so much discussion about teams (Sixers and Lakers) that are so far beneath us. It's akin to Warriors fans talking about the Celtics and Bucks non-stop.

Well, the Lakers are the Celtics' nemesis, so it's only natural for us to keep an eye on how things are going for them.

Because of that, I think there's a heightened anxiety among some Celtics fans that the Lakers will end up with one or more stars before the Celts ever get one, despite the fact that the Celts are doing things the "right" way and not putting a horrible, poorly coached team on the floor.

In the same vein, I think the focus has been and will continue to be on Philly because they started their rebuild around the same time and have employed a different rebuilding strategy (i.e. they've tanked their pants off). 

Philly will continue to be a fascinating parallel for the Celts' rebuild, and visa versa, until it's been long enough to officially make some kind of determination about which strategy has proven to be more "successful" or "correct."

I think it's a bit of a false comparison...

The Sixers could not have done Boston's rebuild. The roster/pick situation was a tick up from the current Nets situation. They pretty much were a 25 win team with Holiday, had no cap space and owed picks to a ton of people. Boston's in a better position than Philly IMO, though mostly because of how ghastly that Nets situation has turned, but they should be. Ainge was able to control the apex to apex rebuilding of the roster from the 08 team to the next banner you guys raise. Hinkie picked up the pieces of Hurricane Collins and had to auction the non-ruined possessions and level the lot before he could build a house again.

I think the real issue is for teams with the choice of the two rebuilds. Though by the time both rebuilds are complete I'm not really sure the cap space dump type of moves will even be relevant anymore.

[MBunge]

Not sure why there is so much discussion about teams (Sixers and Lakers) that are so far beneath us. It's akin to Warriors fans talking about the Celtics and Bucks non-stop.

Because the Sixers are in our division, have two talents better than anyone on Boston, and have just as much if not more draft pick assets in trade. 

 but Noel, while looking pretty good, seems a whole lot better because NO ONE in Philly gives a bleep when he looks terrible.

And Philly has far less in assets overall than Boston.

Mike

They've got at least three, possibly 4 better than Boston's best asset... I'm not sure where you're getting this.

And Noel looks like the next KG on defense, and is elite at finishing at the rim. If he wasn't being told to shoot jump shots as part of his development he'd "look" a lot better.

1.  Philly has far fewer assets to make a move.  They'd be lucky to get a mid-level starter for Embiid at this point.  They have lots of cap space but are so terrible that no decent player is going there if they have another option.  And because people value potential over production, they probably couldn't get as much for either Noel or Okafor right now as they could for those picks on their respective draft nights.

2.  Right now, it's not guaranteed that either Embiid or Saric will ever step on the court for Philly and Boston's top 10 are better than everybody else Philly has.

3.  I'm not sure what's hard to understand.  Noel is good.  But he's also in a situation where NO ONE CARES when he screws up or plays poorly, goes 2-10 from the field, turns the ball over 6 times or makes any sort of mistake at all.  I'm sure Sully's stats would look pretty good too if he were playing for a team that didn't care about losing 60 games a year for multiple years in a row.

Which isn't to say I think Sully is as good or better than Noel.  But let's not get too excited about a player who may not win 40 games total in his first two seasons on the court.

Mike

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Not sure why there is so much discussion about teams (Sixers and Lakers) that are so far beneath us. It's akin to Warriors fans talking about the Celtics and Bucks non-stop.

Because the Sixers are in our division, have two talents better than anyone on Boston, and have just as much if not more draft pick assets in trade. 

 but Noel, while looking pretty good, seems a whole lot better because NO ONE in Philly gives a bleep when he looks terrible.

And Philly has far less in assets overall than Boston.

Mike

They've got at least three, possibly 4 better than Boston's best asset... I'm not sure where you're getting this.

And Noel looks like the next KG on defense, and is elite at finishing at the rim. If he wasn't being told to shoot jump shots as part of his development he'd "look" a lot better.

1.  Philly has far fewer assets to make a move.  They'd be lucky to get a mid-level starter for Embiid at this point.  They have lots of cap space but are so terrible that no decent player is going there if they have another option.  And because people value potential over production, they probably couldn't get as much for either Noel or Okafor right now as they could for those picks on their respective draft nights.

1. Okafor
2. An unprotected Sixers 2016 Pick (good luck topping the value on that)
3. Noel

If you think anything you have tops those 3 I don't know what to tell you.

They've also got the Kings lottery balls for the next two years, the Lakers 1st round pick top 3, and the two best of Miami/OKC/GSW. So probably 15ish and 27ish. Also a 6'9 3 and D wing making 1 million dollars a year for the next 3 years, and a Sacramento 1st in 2 years.

The C's have a ton of ammo in a trade, but they don't have as much as the Sixers.

As far as Noel goes, what are you even talking about? Nobody says he's a good offensive player, and people have paid plenty of attention to it. But considering that he's already an elite defender who can  jump a defense from bottom 5 to top half on his own it's not really that big of a deal. The reason he goes 2-10 is because he gets a green light to fire away from 15 feet. If they kept him in a DeAndre Jordan role he'd shoot 60+ percent, but that's bad for him long term so they eat the bricks now hoping he can develop a shot.

[Eddie20]

Not sure why there is so much discussion about teams (Sixers and Lakers) that are so far beneath us. It's akin to Warriors fans talking about the Celtics and Bucks non-stop.

Because the Sixers are in our division, have two talents better than anyone on Boston, and have just as much if not more draft pick assets in trade. 

 but Noel, while looking pretty good, seems a whole lot better because NO ONE in Philly gives a bleep when he looks terrible.

And Philly has far less in assets overall than Boston.

Mike

They've got at least three, possibly 4 better than Boston's best asset... I'm not sure where you're getting this.

And Noel looks like the next KG on defense, and is elite at finishing at the rim. If he wasn't being told to shoot jump shots as part of his development he'd "look" a lot better.

1.  Philly has far fewer assets to make a move.  They'd be lucky to get a mid-level starter for Embiid at this point.  They have lots of cap space but are so terrible that no decent player is going there if they have another option.  And because people value potential over production, they probably couldn't get as much for either Noel or Okafor right now as they could for those picks on their respective draft nights.

1. Okafor
2. An unprotected Sixers 2016 Pick (good luck topping the value on that)
3. Noel

If you think anything you have tops those 3 I don't know what to tell you.

They've also got the Kings lottery balls for the next two years, the Lakers 1st round pick top 3, and the two best of Miami/OKC/GSW. So probably 15ish and 27ish. Also a 6'9 3 and D wing making 1 million dollars a year for the next 3 years, and a Sacramento 1st in 2 years.

The C's have a ton of ammo in a trade, but they don't have as much as the Sixers.

As far as Noel goes, what are you even talking about? Nobody says he's a good offensive player, and people have paid plenty of attention to it. But considering that he's already an elite defender who can  jump a defense from bottom 5 to top half on his own it's not really that big of a deal. The reason he goes 2-10 is because he gets a green light to fire away from 15 feet. If they kept him in a DeAndre Jordan role he'd shoot 60+ percent, but that's bad for him long term so they eat the bricks now hoping he can develop a shot.

This is some awesome stuff. It proves that any fan can rationalize their teams' future. Hinkie should use this as a sales pitch during free agency. I'm sure free agents are going to be begging to play for the playoff bound Sixers sometime next decade.

[Celtics4ever]

I think Okafor is going to be solid for them, provided he can be talked into staying.   I think Noel will try to bolt here, come home to Boston.   If they do not start winning at some point, no one will want to stay.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Not sure why there is so much discussion about teams (Sixers and Lakers) that are so far beneath us. It's akin to Warriors fans talking about the Celtics and Bucks non-stop.

Because the Sixers are in our division, have two talents better than anyone on Boston, and have just as much if not more draft pick assets in trade. 

 but Noel, while looking pretty good, seems a whole lot better because NO ONE in Philly gives a bleep when he looks terrible.

And Philly has far less in assets overall than Boston.

Mike

They've got at least three, possibly 4 better than Boston's best asset... I'm not sure where you're getting this.

And Noel looks like the next KG on defense, and is elite at finishing at the rim. If he wasn't being told to shoot jump shots as part of his development he'd "look" a lot better.

1.  Philly has far fewer assets to make a move.  They'd be lucky to get a mid-level starter for Embiid at this point.  They have lots of cap space but are so terrible that no decent player is going there if they have another option.  And because people value potential over production, they probably couldn't get as much for either Noel or Okafor right now as they could for those picks on their respective draft nights.

1. Okafor
2. An unprotected Sixers 2016 Pick (good luck topping the value on that)
3. Noel

If you think anything you have tops those 3 I don't know what to tell you.

They've also got the Kings lottery balls for the next two years, the Lakers 1st round pick top 3, and the two best of Miami/OKC/GSW. So probably 15ish and 27ish. Also a 6'9 3 and D wing making 1 million dollars a year for the next 3 years, and a Sacramento 1st in 2 years.

The C's have a ton of ammo in a trade, but they don't have as much as the Sixers.

As far as Noel goes, what are you even talking about? Nobody says he's a good offensive player, and people have paid plenty of attention to it. But considering that he's already an elite defender who can  jump a defense from bottom 5 to top half on his own it's not really that big of a deal. The reason he goes 2-10 is because he gets a green light to fire away from 15 feet. If they kept him in a DeAndre Jordan role he'd shoot 60+ percent, but that's bad for him long term so they eat the bricks now hoping he can develop a shot.

This is some awesome stuff. It proves that any fan can rationalize their teams' future. Hinkie should use this as a sales pitch during free agency. I'm sure free agents are going to be begging to play for the playoff bound Sixers sometime next decade.

Ladies and gentlemen, behold a perfect example of not being able to refute anything I said but not wanting it to be true.