Celtics - Final Preseason Stats

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It would've been nice to play a good team at least once.

We'll probably see a lot of Bradley/Crowder/Johnson time, with two of the better passers with them. Smart and Rosier might take the rest of the guard time, with Turner backing up both sides g positions, and KO, Lee, and Jerebko getting the big guy minutes.

I don't see much room for Sully.  He really didn't run the floor very well. He could surely fill in well as a 5th big, but he just doesn't have it in transition. Rebounded well, but that's not enough to get minutes in this group.

[KeepRondo]

Thanks for doing this.

Though I think it's valid to point out that this is pre-season and the competition was pathetic.

If the Celts played this slate of opponents 82 times in the regular season I think they'd win 60-65 of those matches.


As for Sullinger, I was actually struck by how poor his conditioning was.

Sure, he missed much of the end of the season and was still recovering somewhat from some injuries over the summer, but in pre-season he front-rimmed nearly every jumper he took, as well as many of his free throws.  He looked slow and unwieldy moving on the floor, and he frequently appeared winded or even gassed. 

Taking fewer threes doesn't really pacify me when the less efficient 2 point jumpers he took barely ever went in, either.  Sullinger is starting to seem more and more like a rebounding specialist with a poor, if nice-looking jumpshot who has spent the first 3+ years of his career attempting to be a stretch big man, because he knows succeeding in that role is the only way he'll earn a starting role in this league.  In a way it's been a fascinating experiment.  It's a credit to him, I suppose, that at times he's actually kinda looked the part.

I don't think Sullinger had a good pre-season at all.  He had one or two performances that look good in the box score, but I think they stand out only by contrast to his other weak performances.  Sullinger has done enough in the past for us to expect him to be very productive nearly every time out, especially against weak competition.

Pre-season did nothing to alter my feeling that Sullinger is not long for this team.

To add to that, Sullinger also never pushes himself to his limits. If he was out of shape but busting his rear out there, I could see him playing himself back into shape. But this dude is always taking plays off or lumbering up the court.

We need some Run Sully Run signs at the Garden.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I'd like for someone to prove me wrong, but I'm not seeing anything yet re: Mickey. Per-36 numbers for a guy that played like 5 mpg, in garbage time, is useless. Qualitatively, I didn't notice things that seemed transferable to the NBA like I did with Rozier and RJ. He looks undersized for his position, limited offensively, and rail thin to be banging down low. Fine pick up at 33, a steal for sure... but the hype doesn't make sense.

[PhoSita]

I'd like for someone to prove me wrong, but I'm not seeing anything yet re: Mickey. Per-36 numbers for a guy that played like 5 mpg, in garbage time, is useless. Qualitatively, I didn't notice things that seemed transferable to the NBA like I did with Rozier and RJ. He looks undersized for his position, limited offensively, and rail thin to be banging down low. Fine pick up at 33, a steal for sure... but the hype doesn't make sense.

He's looked fine to me so far, kind of similar in style and role to Ed Davis and Brandan Wright.  But not clear to me yet that he'll be anything more than a 10-15 minute energy guy.  Still, even if that's all he is, that sort of player is nice to have.

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Thanks for doing this.

Though I think it's valid to point out that this is pre-season and the competition was pathetic.

If the Celts played this slate of opponents 82 times in the regular season I think they'd win 60-65 of those matches.


As for Sullinger, I was actually struck by how poor his conditioning was.

Sure, he missed much of the end of the season and was still recovering somewhat from some injuries over the summer, but in pre-season he front-rimmed nearly every jumper he took, as well as many of his free throws.  He looked slow and unwieldy moving on the floor, and he frequently appeared winded or even gassed. 

Taking fewer threes doesn't really pacify me when the less efficient 2 point jumpers he took barely ever went in, either.  Sullinger is starting to seem more and more like a rebounding specialist with a poor, if nice-looking jumpshot who has spent the first 3+ years of his career attempting to be a stretch big man, because he knows succeeding in that role is the only way he'll earn a starting role in this league.  In a way it's been a fascinating experiment.  It's a credit to him, I suppose, that at times he's actually kinda looked the part.

I don't think Sullinger had a good pre-season at all.  He had one or two performances that look good in the box score, but I think they stand out only by contrast to his other weak performances.  Sullinger has done enough in the past for us to expect him to be very productive nearly every time out, especially against weak competition.

Pre-season did nothing to alter my feeling that Sullinger is not long for this team.

To add to that, Sullinger also never pushes himself to his limits. If he was out of shape but busting his rear out there, I could see him playing himself back into shape. But this dude is always taking plays off or lumbering up the court.

We need some Run Sully Run signs at the Garden.

He might see quite a few DNP-CD's this year.  Johnson & Lee are improvements, and I think Zeller and KO have outplayed Sully by far. Jerebko and crowder would get minutes at PF ahead of Sully in my book.

The minutes get sucked up by Bradley, Johnson, Thomas, Smart, Lee, Crowder, Zeller, Olynyk, Jerebko, and Turner (10 players) before I'd think about going with Sully, and I might go with Mickey or PJ III instead...or go smaller with Rosier or the other rook.

Say, 11-14th on the depth chart...

But with more hustle, he would still only be 3rd or 4th big.

Lack of either range or length just sink a PF these days.

[Greyman]

TP for putting the stats together and posting them.

Even though the opposition hasn't been the highest quality, preseason is about trying things and fine tuning. I don't think it will give CBS or the team any false sense of where they stand.

The stats give a strong indication about where the minutes will be going and who will be teamed with who. CBS will have derived a lot more from what he has seen. Hopefully it all makes a positive difference.

[crimson_stallion]

I completely understand what people are saying - obviously the level of competition was not high, as we really didn't face a single team that has playoff potential.

At the same time though, guys rarely put up dominate preseason numbers unless they are legit NBA stars.  Guys like Paul George, Anthony Davis, etc.  The guys who put up very impressive preseason numbers often (not always, but often) end up becoming quality NBA players.

For example, James Young dominated the D-League, but his preseason numbers still sucked.  Perry Jones is a fringe NBA-caliber player and yet he was practically nonexistent in the preseason.  That was against the same third string nobody's that Mickey and Rozier dominated.

This is why I look at stats of guys like Mickey and Rozier and see them as promising signs of their talent.

I think Mickey is a legitimate rebounder and shot-blocker,  and I think that those two skills (at the very least) will translate to the NBA.  In this league if you're a big man who can defend and rebound at a high level, then that is usually enough to earn you a solid role.  Just look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan, Omer Asik, etc.  Those guys are hardly quality offensive players, yet have all started in this league at some point or other. 

I also think Mickey has a decent chance at becoming a productive offensive player as well, as I think his length, athleticism, soft touch inside and solid jumper gives him the potential to become a solid threat in both the pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop game. 

People point to size as a reason why Mickey wouldn't become much in the NBA, but look at somebody like Thaddeus Young - the guy is the same height as Mickey with nowhere near his strength or length and Young's only real advantage is three point range (which Mickey may well develop one day). 

Also I'm not sure why people consider mickey skinny.  He's 6'8" and 238 pounds at only 7% body fat.  There's more muscle on that frame than you think.  Also look at guys like Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard looked like when they were in college, as opposed to their second or third year in the NBA.  It's almost certain Mickey will further fill out that frame.

I don't think Mickey will ever be a star, but I can see him developing into (at least) a Brandon Bass calibre player. 

[crimson_stallion]

Regarding Sully, there are a lot of things he struggled with in preseason, yes. 

I felt his conditioning was better than last year because I felt like he went after it on defence a lot harder than he did last year, rebounded with more aggression, and ran back more on defence.  I still think he has a VERY long way to do in that regard though, and I think that a big reason why he did the above better is because he was only playing some 20 minutes a night.

The sad part is that at 20 minutes a night he was still coming up short on shots and was still missing a bunch of defensive assignments, and that was concerning to me.  But alas, he is still a dominant rebounder, still a very good passer, and still a handful in the post.  Those talents are useful. 

If the regular season rotation is anything like the preseason one (with nobody playing more than 25-28 minutes) then with those minute restrictions there might be a unique opportunity for Sully to put up dominant numbers this year, and if so it may drive up his trade value to teams willing to take a gamble.  I still don't see him as a long term solution here, but I think he's worth holding on to until at least mid-season unless someone offers a trade you can't refuse.

I think eventually Sully will be gone, and Mickey will take over his minutes.  Lee, Johnson and Zeller all have the ability to walk after this year, so if Mickey plays well in the minute he gets then he will have the opportunity to earn himself a significant role next season.

[chambers]

TP crimson.

Most disappointing player for me in the pre season was David Lee.
I love RJ Hunter but his shooting numbers worry me a bit. He really hasn't shot well for a looooong time career wise.

[Celtics4ever]

Regarding Sully, there are a lot of things he struggled with in preseason, yes. 

I felt his conditioning was better than last year because I felt like he went after it on defence a lot harder than he did last year, rebounded with more aggression, and ran back more on defence.  I still think he has a VERY long way to do in that regard though, and I think that a big reason why he did the above better is because he was only playing some 20 minutes a night.

The sad part is that at 20 minutes a night he was still coming up short on shots and was still missing a bunch of defensive assignments, and that was concerning to me.  But alas, he is still a dominant rebounder, still a very good passer, and still a handful in the post.  Those talents are useful. 

I have been a harsh critic, agree with most  of these statements.

He has a long ways to go, I do not think he will ever be good at certain things, but he is  superb rebounder with great hands.   But athletically he is very limited in certain ways.  The question is whether his strengths outweigh his deficits.   If his shooting does not improve, I think they do not.   But if he can get his FG% up to where it was the last few years, then maybe.

It occurred to me, that maybe he did not want to be traded and maybe was missing some shots to drive down his value.   But would he do this is a contract year and the answer is "no".   It is possible he saw the writing on the wall and was hoping he would be traded but he has been a good soldier thus far.   However, it is more likely he does not have the lift he has in the past and his shots are coming up short.

Sully has always been a disappointment to me, because there is some real talent there.   He has just ate himself out of it.