Build a Dynasty through the next 3 drafts

[Future Celtics Owner]

If the Celtics are to turn it around and become a perennial contender it will come from the next 3 drafts. I could not more strongly disagree that tanking this year is necessary for the rebuild.

The Nets are going to provide our lottery picks and influx of young talent the next couple years, the Celtics are going to provide the circumstance by which the young players can excel.

Adding top picks to a roster with veteran leadership and a winning mentality is the best way to develop high level prospects.

The idea that we can become great through the next 3 drafts is a sound one, that we need to tank to do so is not.

We barely made the playoffs last year.....in the East. Think about that and then think about our proposed trade to CHA on draft night, there is your answer.

I was critical when Danny did not waive Bass and Jonas last year at the deadline. So actually you should know that I wanted us to miss the playoffs last year as well, and we would have been much better off for it. Tanking is a term used for teams that have players, staff, coaches, and gm's all in on losing games by playing bad basketball(even when the players can play better). I am not for that, instead I am for getting rid of the players that will not be playing with us long term and are overachieving so they can get a better contract and be picked up by another team.

The tanking ship has sailed.

Last year we made the playoffs based on ending the year 24-12 because we added quality players who fit the system at the deadline. This year we improved the roster from the outside by adding Lee and Johnson while some of our young players are bound to improve.

Tanking for a high pick is unlikely with those improvements and would prove even more difficult with the additions.

We already have a big advantage over the other tanking teams, and it is that our team is already competitive. With a competitive roster and a competitive coach a high draft pick is more likely to mature to the fullest of their potential.

Tanking is not only a bad idea for this year, it is already off the table.

And you think that was by design from Ainge? NO. And you forgot to mention that the East was unbelievably horrible last year and the teams that we just beat out were missing superstar players.

Do you think if we did have a record in the bottom 5 for 3 years, would we have better chances than other teams to rebuild more quickly? I believe so, bc of the picks we already have and would likely get. That's all. I think we are in a good position but I want to be the favorites and win titles. Hard to do anything without a star or stars these days.

BTW nothing is ever off the table in regards to matters like these.

[Lucky17]

We should really consider trading our players like IT ET AB Sully KO Amir Zeller for picks and prospects; and then develop our young players, take on players to help teams clear cap space and take a first rounder from them, and be in contention for the #1 pick for 3 years(but try as hard as possible to win with the young core of guys).

But this is pretty much the definition of tanking. Except for the "try as hard as possible to win" part, which is incompatible. Unless, you want them to try real hard and still fail?

Are you really saying that Ainge should trade away all the starters, play the rookies, fight like hell but lose as many games as possible -- all for one extra ping pong ball?

[86MaxwellSmart]

Danny Ainge is DONE with tanking....He's gonna let Brooklyn do it for us....Between those 3 picks, our own developing young players....and Cap Space, we're gonna be okay.

Also, Amir and David Lee have over $27 Million in expiring contracts this season....to either trade or let expire.

[Evantime34]

If the Celtics are to turn it around and become a perennial contender it will come from the next 3 drafts. I could not more strongly disagree that tanking this year is necessary for the rebuild.

The Nets are going to provide our lottery picks and influx of young talent the next couple years, the Celtics are going to provide the circumstance by which the young players can excel.

Adding top picks to a roster with veteran leadership and a winning mentality is the best way to develop high level prospects.

The idea that we can become great through the next 3 drafts is a sound one, that we need to tank to do so is not.

We barely made the playoffs last year.....in the East. Think about that and then think about our proposed trade to CHA on draft night, there is your answer.

I was critical when Danny did not waive Bass and Jonas last year at the deadline. So actually you should know that I wanted us to miss the playoffs last year as well, and we would have been much better off for it. Tanking is a term used for teams that have players, staff, coaches, and gm's all in on losing games by playing bad basketball(even when the players can play better). I am not for that, instead I am for getting rid of the players that will not be playing with us long term and are overachieving so they can get a better contract and be picked up by another team.

The tanking ship has sailed.

Last year we made the playoffs based on ending the year 24-12 because we added quality players who fit the system at the deadline. This year we improved the roster from the outside by adding Lee and Johnson while some of our young players are bound to improve.

Tanking for a high pick is unlikely with those improvements and would prove even more difficult with the additions.

We already have a big advantage over the other tanking teams, and it is that our team is already competitive. With a competitive roster and a competitive coach a high draft pick is more likely to mature to the fullest of their potential.

Tanking is not only a bad idea for this year, it is already off the table.

And you think that was by design from Ainge? NO. And you forgot to mention that the East was unbelievably horrible last year and the teams that we just beat out were missing superstar players.

Do you think if we did have a record in the bottom 5 for 3 years, would we have better chances than other teams to rebuild more quickly? I believe so, bc of the picks we already have and would likely get. That's all. I think we are in a good position but I want to be the favorites and win titles. Hard to do anything without a star or stars these days.

BTW nothing is ever off the table in regards to matters like these.

If we had a record in the bottom five for 3 years we wouldn't have a chance to build more quickly. Waiting 3 years to try to start winning again is decreasing the chances of rebuilding quickly because you are planning on rebuilding slowly.

[Eddie20]

We should really consider trading our players like IT ET AB Sully KO Amir Zeller for picks and prospects; and then develop our young players, take on players to help teams clear cap space and take a first rounder from them

* Thomas is young (26) and signed to a descending team friendly deal
* Bradley is young (24) and signed to a team friendly deal
* Olynyk is young (24) still has a couple of more years under his rookie scale contract
* Turner will not net a 1st draft pick
* Sullinger will not net a 1st rd draft pick
* Zeller and Amir might, but it would be late 1st rd picks at best from contending teams in need of bigs

You never mentioned Crowder? Is he part of the exodus? If so, he too is young (25) and signed to a team friendly deal.

So your plan is to trade the tradable assets listed above and hope/pray that the picks attained develop into what those players currently are or could still yet become given that none are in their prime. In the meantime, we have to wait until those draftees develop, which could be years assuming they aren't busts, and then hope/pray Stevens doesn't get tired of playing the waiting game and bolt for a marquee college program. It's an NBA2k plan and simply not logical.

[Future Celtics Owner]

We should really consider trading our players like IT ET AB Sully KO Amir Zeller for picks and prospects; and then develop our young players, take on players to help teams clear cap space and take a first rounder from them

* Thomas is young (26) and signed to a descending team friendly deal
* Bradley is young (24) and signed to a team friendly deal
* Olynyk is young (24) still has a couple of more years under his rookie scale contract
* Turner will not net a 1st draft pick
* Sullinger will not net a 1st rd draft pick
* Zeller and Amir might, but it would be late 1st rd picks at best from contending teams in need of bigs

You never mentioned Crowder? Is he part of the exodus? If so, he too is young (25) and signed to a team friendly deal.

So your plan is to trade the tradable assets listed above and hope/pray that the picks attained develop into what those players currently are or could still yet become given that none are in their prime. In the meantime, we have to wait until those draftees develop, which could be years assuming they aren't busts, and then hope/pray Stevens doesn't get tired of playing the waiting game and bolt for a marquee college program. It's an NBA2k plan and simply not logical.

Your confusing youth with potential. yes those players are young but are they going to get much better? Are any of them going to be franchise players for us? Also we can trade for prospects and picks....not just picks and not just picks in this draft.

Also people on this blog coddle CBS way too much. He wants to win a championship IMO more than anyone. And is probably sick of doing it with 3 sticks and 2 stones.

I'm all for rebuilding a dif way but the fact is we have no star or even all star.....we have no Paul Pierce on this team.  And even if we trade to get a disgruntled one the cost would most still be our best pieces and players; and then where would we be?

[Eddie20]

We should really consider trading our players like IT ET AB Sully KO Amir Zeller for picks and prospects; and then develop our young players, take on players to help teams clear cap space and take a first rounder from them

* Thomas is young (26) and signed to a descending team friendly deal
* Bradley is young (24) and signed to a team friendly deal
* Olynyk is young (24) still has a couple of more years under his rookie scale contract
* Turner will not net a 1st draft pick
* Sullinger will not net a 1st rd draft pick
* Zeller and Amir might, but it would be late 1st rd picks at best from contending teams in need of bigs

You never mentioned Crowder? Is he part of the exodus? If so, he too is young (25) and signed to a team friendly deal.

So your plan is to trade the tradable assets listed above and hope/pray that the picks attained develop into what those players currently are or could still yet become given that none are in their prime. In the meantime, we have to wait until those draftees develop, which could be years assuming they aren't busts, and then hope/pray Stevens doesn't get tired of playing the waiting game and bolt for a marquee college program. It's an NBA2k plan and simply not logical.

Your confusing youth with potential. yes those players are young but are they going to get much better? Are any of them going to be franchise players for us? Also we can trade for prospects and picks....not just picks and not just picks in this draft.

Also people on this blog coddle CBS way too much. He wants to win a championship IMO more than anyone. And is probably sick of doing it with 3 sticks and 2 stones.

I'm all for rebuilding a dif way but the fact is we have no star or even all star.....we have no Paul Pierce on this team.  And even if we trade to get a disgruntled one the cost would most still be our best pieces and players; and then where would we be?

Can you provide examples of what you think the players you mentioned would net in a return? So and so for a prospect/picks is easy to say. However, trying to actually find a willing trading partner that fits that criteria is a different story.

[Forza Juventus]

I think we should continue our current plan and try to slowly improve every year. Our team can win 45 games this year, 50 the year after, etc. And hopefully the Brooklyn pick will be a top pick. That way we can get a top prospect or use the pick, Smart, young role players, other picks, etc to get Cousins or Paul George, etc

[mef730]

We should really consider trading our players like IT ET AB Sully KO Amir Zeller for picks and prospects; and then develop our young players, take on players to help teams clear cap space and take a first rounder from them

* Thomas is young (26) and signed to a descending team friendly deal
* Bradley is young (24) and signed to a team friendly deal
* Olynyk is young (24) still has a couple of more years under his rookie scale contract
* Turner will not net a 1st draft pick
* Sullinger will not net a 1st rd draft pick
* Zeller and Amir might, but it would be late 1st rd picks at best from contending teams in need of bigs

You never mentioned Crowder? Is he part of the exodus? If so, he too is young (25) and signed to a team friendly deal.

So your plan is to trade the tradable assets listed above and hope/pray that the picks attained develop into what those players currently are or could still yet become given that none are in their prime. In the meantime, we have to wait until those draftees develop, which could be years assuming they aren't busts, and then hope/pray Stevens doesn't get tired of playing the waiting game and bolt for a marquee college program. It's an NBA2k plan and simply not logical.

Your confusing youth with potential. yes those players are young but are they going to get much better? Are any of them going to be franchise players for us? Also we can trade for prospects and picks....not just picks and not just picks in this draft.

Also people on this blog coddle CBS way too much. He wants to win a championship IMO more than anyone. And is probably sick of doing it with 3 sticks and 2 stones.

I'm all for rebuilding a dif way but the fact is we have no star or even all star.....we have no Paul Pierce on this team.  And even if we trade to get a disgruntled one the cost would most still be our best pieces and players; and then where would we be?

Can you provide examples of what you think the players you mentioned would net in a return? So and so for a prospect/picks is easy to say. However, trying to actually find a willing trading partner that fits that criteria is a different story.

DING DING DING! We have a winner! No team is going to give up one A-rated player or potential Top 3 draft pick for any one of those names or any combination thereof. Three B-rated players does not equal one A-rated player.

Mike

[Moranis]

The better question is how many dynasties could you build in any 3 year period using only picks that one team actually had (now obviously you could never really do that because if you changed the year 1 pick of a team it would likely alter the year 2 and year 3 picks, but you get the idea).

OKC/Seattle is pretty good in 2007: Durant, Noah - 2008: Westbrook, Ibaka - 2009: Harden, Carroll

Obviously most teams don't have 6 1st round picks in 3 years, which helps, but I think OKC would have had multiple titles if that is what they did with those 6 first rounders (and I'm not counting guys like Marc Gasol which got drafted way late, those were all realistic selections based on where guys actually went and obviously 4 of them were actually made).

I came up with Cleveland as well though obviously changing the 2002 draft they might not get James in 2003 but this is what I came up with.  2002: A'mare, Boozer (2nd round) - 2003: James, Willie Green (2nd) - 2004: Al Jefferson or Josh Smith - Not the most balanced team, but would obviously be a force.  Heck even with Cleveland's terrible drafting in James' first stint if they would have just kept Boozer things might have been a lot different.

[greenrunsdeep41]

Can we all just agree that this guy has no idea what he is talking about and is being entirely convoluted In his "rebuild" approach.

My friend what you are describing is sucking for a long time. There is two examples, ever, of what you are talking about working. There are a whole lot more examples of just working to win games what what you have working. You want to trade our players away for what you call 'young prodigies' where are we going to get these? And you assert that you 'know' that all these players have reached their ceilings, yet the people in charge of the Celtics disagree with you. Yea, I'll trust them. Your an idiot.

[D Dub]

We should really consider trading our players like IT ET AB Sully KO Amir Zeller for picks and prospects; and then develop our young players, take on players to help teams clear cap space and take a first rounder from them, and be in contention for the #1 pick for 3 years(but try as hard as possible to win with the young core of guys).

why not just follow the 6ers?

[littleteapot]

I can understand criticizing the direction Danny decided to take in the last few years, but I don't understand why anyone would want us to completely abort mission now that we're in the middle of it.

[bdm860]

The better question is how many dynasties could you build in any 3 year period using only picks that one team actually had (now obviously you could never really do that because if you changed the year 1 pick of a team it would likely alter the year 2 and year 3 picks, but you get the idea).

OKC/Seattle is pretty good in 2007: Durant, Noah - 2008: Westbrook, Ibaka - 2009: Harden, Carroll

Obviously most teams don't have 6 1st round picks in 3 years, which helps, but I think OKC would have had multiple titles if that is what they did with those 6 first rounders (and I'm not counting guys like Marc Gasol which got drafted way late, those were all realistic selections based on where guys actually went and obviously 4 of them were actually made).

I came up with Cleveland as well though obviously changing the 2002 draft they might not get James in 2003 but this is what I came up with.  2002: A'mare, Boozer (2nd round) - 2003: James, Willie Green (2nd) - 2004: Al Jefferson or Josh Smith - Not the most balanced team, but would obviously be a force.  Heck even with Cleveland's terrible drafting in James' first stint if they would have just kept Boozer things might have been a lot different.

Crazy how well OKC/Seattle actually nailed that (would be even more impressive if they had #1 in '07 and still took Durant).  Really only messed up on Jeff Green.  Just think if they took Joakim Noah instead, that could have been huge for them (and the C's as OKC wouldn't trade for Perk).  Noah could have been the difference the years OKC was healthy in the playoffs ('11, '12, '14), and I know we all like to dream that Perk was the difference for the C's in '11. 2010 Thunder knock out Lakers, giving the C's the title over the Suns.  2011 Finals, C's over Thunder.  2012 and 2014 Thunder over Heat.  One can only dream...

I (unsuccessfully) started a thread like this once , though my premise was a little different than yours.  Basically take any teams draft picks in 3 straight years, but move them to any period.  So when OKC essentially drafted #2 and #5, #4, and #3 in three straight drafts in '07-'09, what if you had the same picks in '03-'05 instead?  (Carmelo, Wade, Deng, and Paul?).

Of course now Cleveland is probably the dream scenario across 4 drafts with #1, #4, #1, #1.  Maybe go with with Howard, Paul, Aldridge, and Durant from '04-'07?  Also can't go wrong taking LeBron and Dwight with back-to-back #1's.

It's all about having the good picks in the right drafts.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Can we all just agree that this guy has no idea what he is talking about and is being entirely convoluted In his "rebuild" approach.

My friend what you are describing is sucking for a long time. There is two examples, ever, of what you are talking about working. There are a whole lot more examples of just working to win games what what you have working. You want to trade our players away for what you call 'young prodigies' where are we going to get these? And you assert that you 'know' that all these players have reached their ceilings, yet the people in charge of the Celtics disagree with you. Yea, I'll trust them. Your an idiot.

I got called an idiot, along with some others, when we suggested to trade RR. Also called an idiot for being against the Celtics making the playoffs late in the season. But almost always the ones that get personal and break the forum rules for civility are either: new, green goggles, or just want to watch entertaining basketball; and always change their attitudes/views over time or when the Celtics make a move.
Its rational that the Celtics will eventually move IT once Marcus Smart shows his improved talent as a pg(some including myself feel that he can handle the spot well and grow into an elite pg) and the benefit to Marcus' development when he can play pg on both sides and get the reps he needs at point....which is where many want him. And you will forget all about IT. You will think whatever the Celtics PR team says or whatever those idiots on the radio say.

"We will suck for a long time" ....You are literally an instant gratification fan. This team has no Paul Pierce. You underestimate how much that guy did for us, he was the MVP IMO the first season of the big3.....but KG was the only one up for an actual shot at MVP. Why? Honestly.....in your opinion, why?

Also you said only 2 teams in history did what I am referring to. I'm guessing your just spouting the post closest to yours referring to OKC/ Seattle and CLE. Because from recent memory no one has done what I am referring to. You just label me a tanker but you never read what I said....essentially we could have 2 top 10 picks in 3 out of 4 drafts with the potential of 4/4 . If we use IT AB Turner etc worst case .......future picks in 2017 or young prospects NOT YOUNG PRODIGIES ....we don't have assets for that. And I admit that we would be giving up more than we get back in this scenario, unless we trade with a team that goes crap a year later or we hit on a young prospect. It killed me that Towns jumped in the ranks and it killed me when we missed out on the 9-11th pick in this past draft. Myles Turner would have been nice, obv Winslow.
2017 draft has great talent, but we have the best of our/nets.....it would be great if we got the 8th pick from dallas in this draft. Dennis Smith Jr is my favorite for the 1st but Bam Bam and Thon Maker and others are pretty good.
2018- we have the possibility of the grizzlies unprotected pick from Jeff Green, our pick, Nets pick. This draft has Ayton, MB3 possibly , and MPorter

2019- We have our pick and possibly Grizzlies unprotected


I fully admit its a dream and I've said that. But so is the way people are talking about the BKN picks around here, things change. I think BKN sucks and will suck but I also do not buy that we can consistently gain 5 wins a year and I don't care because we are not rebuilding to be like the HAWKS (except I'm afraid we may end up doing that) we are the Celtics and we only count BANNERS.

For me its a race to keep our legacy and heritage ...LAL are only 1 Banner behind us. I'm just ranting now, its late, and I think I have the flu .

Main point is we could tank with much more efficiency or success than those other teams because of the possibility of our picks, and we could add possible future franchise players. Essentially having a core of great young players that we will get to watch grow up. Maybe if Marcus Smart blows up and another young guy does too, maybe then we as a fan base will want to develop and clean up on draft night.