Author Topic: A Glimpse At the Lineups?  (Read 4801 times)

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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2015, 02:21:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It wouldn't surprise me if IT, Smart, Olynyk, and Amir with either Jerebko or Crowder on the wing ends up being the team's most effective lineup. 

IT and Amir in the pick and roll is the focal point.  Put shooters / cutters / hustle guys around them and see what they can do.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2015, 02:31:18 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Yeah I think this is more Stevens trying different combinations of players than setting future lineups.  It's possible these are his "default" lineups and he's going to tweak them over the preseason based on what he sees on the floor, though.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2015, 02:33:57 PM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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People were just talking about  if Sully will have a career year in a previous thread. Now, not one person considered him into the lineup.  I guess it safe to say NOONE on this thread thinks Sully will have a career year based on the comments I've read. I wont take these first day practices lineups to the heart

I personally think there's too much talent on a similar level that needs PT which wil prevent Sully from that projected career year.  Also isn't neccesarily a bad sign on his part. Maybe just a good sign at where our team stand as a whole.


Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2015, 02:47:57 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
So, no Sullinger. I like it.
 

Me, too.   Uptempo ball has not place for him either.  I would like to get rid of all the bad defenders.  I realize that we have David Lee but I consider him an upgrade over Sully.

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Yeah, doesn't look good for Sully, but maybe it's nothing, or a motivational tactic.
 

In all honesty, do you think he looks good after that summer of training?

 If I were Stevens and Ainge, I would be talking him to boost trade value, but really peed off at the young man.  He has not lost significant weight.

Too early to tell though, he could start tomorrow.   But as I said, Ainge hedged his bets.   He and CBS have options now and they do not have to play him or rely on him.   It really is a critical time for him, I wonder if he even realizes that.

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The most interesting thing might be that Sully wasn't in either starting unit.  It seems like one of the bigs is going to sit pretty much the whole game on any given night.  I have a feeling Sully, Olynyk, and Mickey are going to be fighting it out for that last spot in the big rotation.

I think it is telling and maybe a subtle way to tell him that they were not happy with his summer progress.    It is too early to predict that though.   But I could see that as a possibility.  Mickey is going to be a rookie.   I think he loses the battle although Stevens does not seem to hate on rookies like Doc did.   If we are playing run and gun though, Sully will be the odd man out.

Way too early though to tell.

Quote
People were just talking about  if Sully will have a career year in a previous thread. Now, not one person considered him into the lineup.  I guess it safe to say NOONE on this thread thinks Sully will have a career year based on the comments I've read. I wont take these first day practices lineups to the heart

I personally think there's too much talent on a similar level that needs PT which wil prevent Sully from that projected career year.  Also isn't neccesarily a bad sign on his part. Maybe just a good sign at where our team stand as a whole.

I think people had high hopes giving all the stuff they heard this summer.   Then came camp and he still looked overweight.   Now he is not playing as much in a scrimmage but it is wicked too early to make that call.  There are plenty here, that did not think he would have a career year.

I have always though that we played Sully because we had too, not because CBS liked him.    CBS likes uptempo ball with tough defense, and floor spreading do you think that is the ideal game for Sully?   I don't.  I think he is better suited to a slow half court grind it out type of team.  The simple matter of the fact, is now we have options that better suit CBS system.

But tomorrow folks he could play the whole practice, I am a big detractor and it is too early to write him off.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 02:59:03 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2015, 03:49:48 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Starting to think more about minutes rather than start/backup roles, based on combinations that click.

Versatility seems to make things click in more combinations.

My guess is that Amir Johnson, Jerebko, KO, and Lee might end the year with the most minutes of our bigs.   Amir and Jerebko can probably play with anyone. KO too.

Might they be our best 3-big rotation?  Crowder can join the fight for the leftover minutes at PF, along with everyone else...

The whole thing absolutely begs for a trade.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2015, 04:36:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Starting to think more about minutes rather than start/backup roles, based on combinations that click.

Versatility seems to make things click in more combinations.

My guess is that Amir Johnson, Jerebko, KO, and Lee might end the year with the most minutes of our bigs.   Amir and Jerebko can probably play with anyone. KO too.

Might they be our best 3-big rotation?  Crowder can join the fight for the leftover minutes at PF, along with everyone else...

The whole thing absolutely begs for a trade.

It really does.

Amir is probably the most important of the bigs because of his defensive ability coupled with his prowess as a pick setter and roll-man in the pick and roll.  Tyler Zeller will be hard to keep off of the floor because he is probably the second best rim protector after Amir, and he is productive on the offensive end.  Of the four or five rotation caliber power forwards on the roster, Lee will probably be the most productive from a raw box score perspective, and like Humphries before him I expect he'll carve out a sizable rotation spot.  Jerebko will get minutes in smaller lineups due to his versatility and floor spacing, but he'll also get plenty of time on the wing, especially if / when Turner is traded.

Then you've got the younger guys -- Sully, Olynyk, Mickey.  I think those three will be fighting for the leftovers, with Mickey spending lots of time in the D-League and one of the others probably slated for a trade along with Evan Turner if and when Smart or Rozier emerges as a capable ball-handler in lineups without IT.


My guess is Amir and Lee both end up regularly getting 24-28 minutes a night, with Jerebko getting 18-20 minutes as the primary "swing" player on the team, and then the remaining big minutes split between Zeller, Olynyk, and Sullinger depending on matchups.  Probably we'll see either Sullinger or Olynyk sitting out for long stretches, perhaps multiple games without any time at all.  Hard to get them both significant playing time.

You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2015, 05:14:59 PM »

Offline clover

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From Stevens, on his lineup:

Stevens could need a while to learn how to maximize his roster. Still, he said he would like to decide on an "initial rotation" in time for the Oct. 6 preseason opener in Italy.

Stevens was asked at what point he plans to start "messing with" combinations.

"In my mind? Two months ago," he said after the Celtics opened training camp Saturday morning. "On the court? We'll find out. I'm not going to rush it. I'd like to have an initial rotation by the time we play (against Olimpia Milano) in Milan. But that will change by the time we play our first (regular-season) game."

With a deep roster, Stevens has stressed he will give everyone the opportunity to earn minutes. For now, little if anything has been established.

"I don't think there's any coach in the world that wouldn't say they'd rather know exactly who their starters and subs are right now," the coach said Friday at media day. "But it will make for a lot more entertaining training camp. And again we'll see how it sorts itself out. But I'm going to be fair to everybody and not predetermine anything."


http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/09/brad_stevens_hopes_to_decide_o.html

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2015, 05:47:05 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Of course Stevens says this and the interesting part is I think it is true.  I don't think these initial practice line-ups mean anything and even if they did reflect some initial opinion or ranking that Stevens has, all the players are so close in ability that anyone could jump over anyone else by just improving a hair.

Also, as the season goes on, it would not surprise me if certain players are utilized in certain rolls that is more about demonstrating to other teams what the player can do than to actually be defining a long term (or short term) role with the Celtics.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2015, 07:55:02 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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So, no Sullinger. I like it.
Me too.

For what it's worth, Kevin Pelton projects Sully to average around 12 minutes a game next season. So yeah, he's going to be towards the bottom of the big rotation.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2015, 09:51:53 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I really can't imagine Johnson not starting.

I like AB, but I think it's time for him to come off the bench. I like the idea of replacing Bradley with IT and Turner with Crowder. That'd give us:
PG: IT, Turner
SG: Smart, Bradley
SF: Crowder, JJ
PF: Johnson, Lee/Sully
C: KO, Zeller

Hopefully Lee's presence will push Sully, because it does seem like he's the odd man out of the rotation. Really can't imagine us not trading probably at least two of Sully, KO, Lee, Zeller, and Johnson before February.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2015, 10:17:38 PM »

Offline chambers

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Yeah I think this is more Stevens trying different combinations of players than setting future lineups.  It's possible these are his "default" lineups and he's going to tweak them over the preseason based on what he sees on the floor, though.

+1
I wouldn't read too much into these line ups either.
It's the first day of practice.
With some guys he already knows what he's getting. Some guys can play with anyone on the floor. Others need particular help out there to maximize their positive impact and help shield their inefficiencies.

I would love to see Smart start with Crowder and Bradley. Man that would be a defensive nightmare.

I would also like to see a smallball line up of:

Smart
Bradley
Turner
Crowder
Lee, with Smart and Lee running the pick and roll.
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Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2015, 10:34:56 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I really can't imagine Johnson not starting.

The "Green" team likely reflects the starting line-up from the latter half of last season, with Bass replaced by Lee. Doubt it's set in stone. Will be surprised if Amir isn't starting, and disappointed if Turner does.

Quote
I like AB, but I think it's time for him to come off the bench. I like the idea of replacing Bradley with IT and Turner with Crowder. That'd give us:
PG: IT, Turner
SG: Smart, Bradley
SF: Crowder, JJ
PF: Johnson, Lee/Sully
C: KO, Zeller

I proposed this in another thread. I like the idea of IT starting now, too. If Smart isn't ready at PG and we're still reliant upon Turner for playmaking/ballhandling, why not insert IT and give us the best possible starting 5? We can then make adequate use of Lee and Amir (P&Rs) and a push for 45 wins. And the second unit still has a primary ball-handler in Turner, scorer in Bradley, and plenty of shooting.

The idea of a 2nd unit similar to the "white" team would work, I'm sure, but probably more so just in spurts and against 2nd units. CLE demonstrated well that an offense run entirely through IT can be shut down. I'm thinking these changes would make the 1st unit better and the 2nd more well-rounded, assuming all these guys will be around for a while longer.

Quote
Hopefully Lee's presence will push Sully, because it does seem like he's the odd man out of the rotation. Really can't imagine us not trading probably at least two of Sully, KO, Lee, Zeller, and Johnson before February.

I say ship Sully before questions about his work ethic and attitude are answered by the perceptions of other teams. It's just my opinion, but I do think we will know who he is definitively very soon ... not optimistic.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 02:02:05 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2015, 11:17:53 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Meh. I guess it should be worth pointing out that Gerald Wallace, Marcus Thornton, and Brandon Bass were part of last year's Open Practice starting squads.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2015, 03:49:38 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I really can't imagine Johnson not starting.

I like AB, but I think it's time for him to come off the bench. I like the idea of replacing Bradley with IT and Turner with Crowder. That'd give us:
PG: IT, Turner
SG: Smart, Bradley
SF: Crowder, JJ
PF: Johnson, Lee/Sully
C: KO, Zeller

Hopefully Lee's presence will push Sully, because it does seem like he's the odd man out of the rotation. Really can't imagine us not trading probably at least two of Sully, KO, Lee, Zeller, and Johnson before February.

I'd change the bigd rotation to
PF: Lee/Sully
C: Johnson, KO/Zeller

If you include Sully in the rotation at all then he's splitting minutes at the 4 with Lee. If we want to build his trade value he has tonplay, if he's a core piece he has to play. The only way he doesn't play is if he gets traded before the season starts, but I think that's selling low and Danny won't do that.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2015, 06:31:23 AM »

Offline clover

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Meh. I guess it should be worth pointing out that Gerald Wallace, Marcus Thornton, and Brandon Bass were part of last year's Open Practice starting squads.

Not surprising--a starter, a rotation player, and props to the old man within the top 10. (Were there also injuries?)