Bradley promised not to chuck from two. Now, He's chucking threes.

[crimson_stallion]

I'm guessing one of the main (perhaps the only) reasons he's getting so much hate is because he's not a difference maker.

Yeah, honestly I think that's the case.

Honestly, I think people are just so desperate for a savior / star that they start building up unrealistic hopes / expectations, and then when those aren't achieved they blame the player.

But player's are who they are.

Avery Bradley is never going to handle a ball like Kyrie Irving.  He's never going to pass the ball like Rajon Rondo.  He's never going to draw fouls like James Harden, or shoot like Steph Curry.  He's never going to grow 3 inches or add 40 pounds and start shutting down Lebron.  That's just not who he is.

But I'll tell you what he will do. 

Every day he'll be a good teammate in the locker room.  He'll dive for loose balls.  He'll take charges.  He'll run around screen after screen.  He'll put every spare ounce of energy he has into every defensive possession.  He'll carry the team offensively in stretches.  He'll go into every practice like it's a playoff game, and that will rub off onto every other player on the roster.

And every now and then, he's going to make a huge steal, or get a massive chase-down block, or hit a huge three, or dive on (and win) a critical loose ball, or jump over three bigger opponents to wrestle away a rebound, or intimidate an opponent into an unforced turnover...because those are the kind of things that Avery Bradley does, and those are the kind of things plays win games.

Those are the kinds of plays that win championships.

[celtics2030]

Isn't this hilarious

If Ray Allen said this from 2008-2012 he would have got destroyed on these forums

but in today's league, it's fine to say this.

[#1P4P]

I recall Avery saying this in the past.

He tried committing to the philosophy early in the 2014-2015 season, but was unsuccessful and resorted to what worked.

Avery's a solid shooter, his issue is that he worked so hard on defense and creating separation on offense that by the time he takes the shot, his form wasn't going to be optimal. He took his defensive effort down a notch, but that didn't allow him to compensate.

He's going to have to figure out how to create separation by navigating through screens better (Klay Thompson recently stated that this was one of the most important factors in the learning process of becoming the offensive player he is today) to be able to maintain his form throughout the shot. Those 4-5 feet backwards make a huge difference to a player that is moving full speed. His height and his average opponent's length are going to make it that much more difficult.

I think he can do it, but there has to be a ball handler that can help create shots for him, which is where Smart's continuing development comes in.

[BDeCosta26]

Isn't this hilarious

If Ray Allen said this from 2008-2012 he would have got destroyed on these forums

but in today's league, it's fine to say this.

Huh? If Ray Allen started saying "I'm not gonna chuck up long toes anymore I'm gonna shoot 3's" why would he have gotten destroyed. Ray Allen is probably one of the three best shooters in league history, and in his time with Boston he did more 3 point shooting per shot than ever before.

Anyone with a tenth of a brain wanted Ray shooting threes, I'm pretty sure no one would crucify him for saying it himself. Scorers who heavily depend on the mid-range game have never been the best scorers anyway, it's not exactly a brand new concept.

[crimson_stallion]

Huh? If Ray Allen started saying "I'm not gonna chuck up long toes anymore I'm gonna shoot 3's" why would he have gotten destroyed. Ray Allen is probably one of the three best shooters in league history, and in his time with Boston he did more 3 point shooting per shot than ever before.

I think what he is referring to is the change in offensive mentality in the last couple of years.

5-10 years ago everybody used to promote the idea of getting "easy baskets inside", and players with a good midrange game were highly valued - for example KG, Kobe, MJ, Rip Hamilton, etc.

On the other hand, the three point shot was almost frowned upon back then because it was treated as a low percentage shot (higher risk of missing). Taking a lot of threes was not considered to be fundamentally sound basketball.

Hence if a guy came out 5-10 years ago and said "I want to take less two point shots, and take more threes" he would have probably been criticised.

I think this is what celtics2030 is trying to say

Scorers who heavily depend on the mid-range game have never been the best scorers anyway, it's not exactly a brand new concept.

Agree with most of what you said, except for this part.

I would list Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan as two players who depended heavily on the mid-range game, and they were pretty good scorers!

[BDeCosta26]

Huh? If Ray Allen started saying "I'm not gonna chuck up long toes anymore I'm gonna shoot 3's" why would he have gotten destroyed. Ray Allen is probably one of the three best shooters in league history, and in his time with Boston he did more 3 point shooting per shot than ever before.

I think what he is referring to is the change in offensive mentality in the last couple of years.

5-10 years ago everybody used to promote the idea of getting "easy baskets inside", and players with a good midrange game were highly valued - for example KG, Kobe, MJ, Rip Hamilton, etc.

On the other hand, the three point shot was almost frowned upon back then because it was treated as a low percentage shot (higher risk of missing). Taking a lot of threes was not considered to be fundamentally sound basketball.

Hence if a guy came out 5-10 years ago and said "I want to take less two point shots, and take more threes" he would have probably been criticised.

I think this is what celtics2030 is trying to say

Scorers who heavily depend on the mid-range game have never been the best scorers anyway, it's not exactly a brand new concept.

Agree with most of what you said, except for this part.

I would list Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan as two players who depended heavily on the mid-range game, and they were pretty good scorers!

Yeah I get that, but he was talking about Ray Allen, who's like one of the best 3 point shooters ever. My mistake though, I suppose if you look at it that way and Ray said "I'm gonna start posting up instead of taking threes because it's a higher % shot" that would make more sense. I just don't think anyone would have a problem with Ray saying what AB said any time in his career.

Apologies, 2030.

And when we talk about guys like Kobe, Jordan, etc. They were dependent on the mid-range game but that was more of a reflection of the era and not their own basketball skills. In today's game Jordan or even prime Kobe to a degree would be taking a lot more 3's and still be dominating scorers because they had it all. They could blast past guys off the dribble and slam it home, they were both legit 3 point threats, could play well both on and off the ball, both had legit post up games and could pass pretty well when they were so inclined. Their use of the mid range game, as you said, was more a byproduct of the era they played in.

Take a guy like Dion Waiters. 15-20 years ago, he probably would've been considered a pretty good starting SG. His ball-stopping, mediocre shot chucking ways would've been viewed more favorably at that time, and his overall negative impact on the game we recognize now wouldn't have been as big a deal then. That's when some team in need of scoring woulda given up something decent for him because having a guy who could put up a lot of PPG regardless of his efficiency or his total effect on the good of the team

[crimson_stallion]

I get what you're saying, because I initially misunderstood the quote about Ray also - but then when I thought about it a bit I worked it out

As for the Jordan / Kobe thing, i'm not sure. 

Michael Jordan was really never a very good three point shooter.  He shot under 33% for his career, and only shot over 30% 6 times in his 15 year career. 

Kobe is in a similar scenario because h also only shot 33% from three for his career, even though he has taken quite a lot of attempts (4 attempts per game for his career).   On the other hand he shot 44% from 10Ft - 16Ft feet and 40% from 16Ft - 3PT, so he's always had a very good mid-range game.  When you consider that 45% of all his FGA have come from mid-range, it's pretty clear that he has depended a LOT on his mid-range game over his career.

Similar deal with Melo too.  He's taken around 45% of all his FGA from midrange (between 10Ft and 3PT) over his career and has been one of the greatest scorers in the NBA his entire career.

To be honest I'm not 100% in agreement with the huge league-wide push for more three point attempts lately. I understand the concept and the reason - more points for every shot made, theoretically offsets the lower percentage of shots made.  However that doesn't change the fact that almost every player in the league makes mid-range shots at a higher percentage than three points shots, and that means almost every player is more likely to miss a three than they are to miss a mid-range jumper.

Over the course of a game that becomes irrelevant, but then what happens when it's a tie game (or a 1 point game) and all you need is a basket to win the game?  At this point you would much rather take a 10-15 foot jumper as opposed to a three, simply because the chance of you making the mid-range jumper is much higher. 

So because of this, I still feel like the great scorers out there (especially the ones who tend to come up big in the clutch) are going to be the guys who have a dependable mid-range game and the ability to get to the basket - rather than the guys who are just lights-out three point shooters.

Another factor is that the mid-range shot is (IMO) much more versatile simply because of the far reduced difficulty.  Look at guys like Kobe, MJ and Melo who constantly hit contested  jumpers, turnaround jumpers, fadeaway jumpers, step-back jumpers, pull up jumpers off the dribble, etc.  The mid-range jumper is close enough to the basket that you can make them under all sorts of challenging circumstances, whereas making three point shots in those same type of scenarios is far, far less likely.

So if you're just shooting a straight spot-up jumper or pull-up jumper then sure, the three is a smarter option than a 15 footer.  But in most other scenarios, I feel the mid-range game can be far more deadly.

In fact I absolutely LOVE Bradley taking all of those one-dribble jumpers from mid-range because he seems to barely ever miss them.  I've seen so many games where Bradley has gotten hot and the Cetlics have run that exact play for him something like 5 or 6 times in a row, and he has hit every one of them - hand in face.  The defense knows exactly what he's going to do, but it doesn't matter.  AB gets off the ground so quick, he has excellent elevation on his shot, he has a very high and quick release and he seems to have mastered the art of shooting with a hand in his face.  By this stage in his career he seems to know instinctively exactly how much space he needs in order to get his shot off, and once he gets that tiny bit of separation it's as good as gold. 

I take great pleasure in watching the Celtics run this play for Bradley over and over, while the defense sits there looking completely helpless lol

[D.o.s.]

Adding onto CS's post -- if midrange jumpshots are continually left open by defenses more players will be able to exploit that. LaMarcus Aldridge against Houston was a great example of that in the playoffs.