was rozier drafted just in case

[Greyman]

I believe Rozier was drafted because of Rozier, rather than anything to do with AB, Smart or IT (or anyone else). Great potential, won't be needed as a starter for some time but could be NBA ready starter sooner than many draftees.

Sure, he covers areas where we probably feel the team is still developing and finding the right mix. I think we are a long way from him being regarded as a regular starter allowing the mentioned players to be packaged and moved on.

[mgent]

Rozier was drafted so that Ainge could trade Isaiah Thomas further down the road.

Could be, but Thomas is the win now type of player and Ainge has liked him for a while risking valuable draft position trading for him last year.

However if we don't become legit contenders in the next year or 2 I could see Ainge trading Thomas when Rozier is more ready.

Thomas is a good but not great player on a great contract.  He's one of the few guys we have who'd make a very useful piece in acquiring a great player.  I'm sure we'd be happy to keep him if we can but realistically he's more likely to be shipped off if we have a chance to make the big deal we're angling toward.

True, but if we use IT (and picks or whatever) to acquire a great player, we don't really have any "good" players left.  All of us would trade him in addition to our entire team for a super-star, but the chances of that are ridiculously slim.

Unless that perfect storm kick-ass deal comes along, I'd rather see Ainge try to package some guys and upgrade a starting position(s) to help out IT and Lee.

I'd rather have a foundation of good players than go all in and end up with an all-star, but no real other decent players.

I think that's much more likely to attract a big name (which is truly the name of the game).

As far as "realistic scenarios" go, I have no clue why you think doing nothing with IT is so much more less likely than suddenly stumbling across that "big deal we've been angling toward."

A slow but steady rebuilding scenario is much more realistic in my opinion than another random/crazy aligning of the stars like with KG and Ray.

Bottom line is, trading IT (and whatevevr) for a Joe Johnson type player would set us back eons.

[GreenWarrior]

mmmmm could be...

[BudweiserCeltic]

All players are drafted just in case.

[Alleyoopster]

I believe Rozier was drafted because of Rozier, rather than anything to do with AB, Smart or IT (or anyone else). Great potential, won't be needed as a starter for some time but could be NBA ready starter sooner than many draftees.

Sure, he covers areas where we probably feel the team is still developing and finding the right mix. I think we are a long way from him being regarded as a regular starter allowing the mentioned players to be packaged and moved on.

I would have to agree with Greyman. Rozier's was drafted because of his potential.  He is intriguing because of his athleticism and jump shot.  His shooting percentage isn't anything exceptional, but he has great form and it's possible, with practice and coaching, he could end up being an above average shooter. 

When you have a guard who is the second or third option off the bench, who can score and play good defense, it often tips the balance of a game in your favor. 

If that happens I envision him being a Gerald Henderson Sr. type of player.  His style wasn't pretty, but he got the job done. 

[34truth]

Thomas is a good but not great player on a great contract.  He's one of the few guys we have who'd make a very useful piece in acquiring a great player.  I'm sure we'd be happy to keep him if we can but realistically he's more likely to be shipped off if we have a chance to make the big deal we're angling toward.

How valuable is Thomas as a trade piece, really?  At the deadline this past year, he was worth an expiring and a late 1st.  Part of the valuation of him at that time was the fact that two teams in the span of a year had decided to move on from him, apparently due to questions about his defense and willingness to play in a supporting / bench role.

If Thomas continues to succeed with the Celtics, his value might rise somewhat, but do you think other teams will really see him much differently than they did at the deadline this past season, or last off-season? 

I think Thomas is what he is, and though his contract is arguably a great value, I think it also represents the value the league places on him.  Useful in the right situation, but volatile and perhaps not content to the play the role for which he is best suited on a good team.  He's happy with the Celtics now because he's the undisputed #1 option.  A team that might trade for him probably won't be looking to use him that way.

You're the most pessimistic guy I've ever known in my whole life. And that's not based off this comment alone.

[fairweatherfan]

Rozier was drafted so that Ainge could trade Isaiah Thomas further down the road.

Could be, but Thomas is the win now type of player and Ainge has liked him for a while risking valuable draft position trading for him last year.

However if we don't become legit contenders in the next year or 2 I could see Ainge trading Thomas when Rozier is more ready.

Thomas is a good but not great player on a great contract.  He's one of the few guys we have who'd make a very useful piece in acquiring a great player.  I'm sure we'd be happy to keep him if we can but realistically he's more likely to be shipped off if we have a chance to make the big deal we're angling toward.

True, but if we use IT (and picks or whatever) to acquire a great player, we don't really have any "good" players left.  All of us would trade him in addition to our entire team for a super-star, but the chances of that are ridiculously slim.

Unless that perfect storm kick-ass deal comes along, I'd rather see Ainge try to package some guys and upgrade a starting position(s) to help out IT and Lee.

I'd rather have a foundation of good players than go all in and end up with an all-star, but no real other decent players.

I think that's much more likely to attract a big name (which is truly the name of the game).

As far as "realistic scenarios" go, I have no clue why you think doing nothing with IT is so much more less likely than suddenly stumbling across that "big deal we've been angling toward."

A slow but steady rebuilding scenario is much more realistic in my opinion than another random/crazy aligning of the stars like with KG and Ray.

Bottom line is, trading IT (and whatevevr) for a Joe Johnson type player would set us back eons.

Eons, eh?  That's a long time. 

Anyway, I think you're misreading my post.  All I'm doing is concurring with Who's assessment, and the only assumptions I'm making are that 1. We're acquiring all these mediocre assets to try and combine them to snap up a star of some kind, and 2. As one of the best and most expendable of those mediocre assets, IT is likely to be a piece in one of those deals IF it should happen.  Everything else you're attaching to my post is just pulled out of thin air, presumably because you'd rather not do the kind of deal I haven't described.

[PhoSita]

Thomas is a good but not great player on a great contract.  He's one of the few guys we have who'd make a very useful piece in acquiring a great player.  I'm sure we'd be happy to keep him if we can but realistically he's more likely to be shipped off if we have a chance to make the big deal we're angling toward.

How valuable is Thomas as a trade piece, really?  At the deadline this past year, he was worth an expiring and a late 1st.  Part of the valuation of him at that time was the fact that two teams in the span of a year had decided to move on from him, apparently due to questions about his defense and willingness to play in a supporting / bench role.

If Thomas continues to succeed with the Celtics, his value might rise somewhat, but do you think other teams will really see him much differently than they did at the deadline this past season, or last off-season? 

I think Thomas is what he is, and though his contract is arguably a great value, I think it also represents the value the league places on him.  Useful in the right situation, but volatile and perhaps not content to the play the role for which he is best suited on a good team.  He's happy with the Celtics now because he's the undisputed #1 option.  A team that might trade for him probably won't be looking to use him that way.

You're the most pessimistic guy I've ever known in my whole life. And that's not based off this comment alone.

Hahaha you need to get around more my friend.

I am articulate and I frequently point out the weaknesses in optimistic positions.

You want to see some examples of extreme pessimism, they're out there.  Check out reddit.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Thomas is a good but not great player on a great contract.  He's one of the few guys we have who'd make a very useful piece in acquiring a great player.  I'm sure we'd be happy to keep him if we can but realistically he's more likely to be shipped off if we have a chance to make the big deal we're angling toward.

How valuable is Thomas as a trade piece, really?  At the deadline this past year, he was worth an expiring and a late 1st.  Part of the valuation of him at that time was the fact that two teams in the span of a year had decided to move on from him, apparently due to questions about his defense and willingness to play in a supporting / bench role.

If Thomas continues to succeed with the Celtics, his value might rise somewhat, but do you think other teams will really see him much differently than they did at the deadline this past season, or last off-season? 

I think Thomas is what he is, and though his contract is arguably a great value, I think it also represents the value the league places on him.  Useful in the right situation, but volatile and perhaps not content to the play the role for which he is best suited on a good team.  He's happy with the Celtics now because he's the undisputed #1 option.  A team that might trade for him probably won't be looking to use him that way.

You're the most pessimistic guy I've ever known in my whole life. And that's not based off this comment alone.

Hahaha you need to get around more my friend.

I am articulate and I frequently point out the weaknesses in optimistic positions.

You want to see some examples of extreme pessimism, they're out there.  Check out reddit.

Much respect for you, but foulweatherfan happens to be very thoughtful, intelligent, and well-spoken(typed), and I'm also not seeing what you're seeing re: IT. Many believed IT was worth more than an expiring and late first, hence their satisfaction with the trade. He proved to be a very good player this year. I imagine DA wouldn't blink at including he or Smart in a trade for an AS, probably just comes down to what the other team is wanting/needing more at the time.

[PhoSita]

Many believed IT was worth more than an expiring and late first, hence their satisfaction with the trade. He proved to be a very good player this year.

It can be true that the Celtics got Isaiah for a good price and he was a good player for the Celtics this past year without it also being true that some other team is now willing to trade significantly more value for Isaiah.

The question here is whether Isaiah is worth as much to some other hypothetical team as he is to the Celtics.

Given what I've said above re: Isaiah being the #1 option in Boston, my answer is no, I don't think so.


If you think that's all over the top pessimistic, that's your prerogative.

[Alleyoopster]

Thomas is a good but not great player on a great contract.  He's one of the few guys we have who'd make a very useful piece in acquiring a great player.  I'm sure we'd be happy to keep him if we can but realistically he's more likely to be shipped off if we have a chance to make the big deal we're angling toward.

How valuable is Thomas as a trade piece, really?  At the deadline this past year, he was worth an expiring and a late 1st.  Part of the valuation of him at that time was the fact that two teams in the span of a year had decided to move on from him, apparently due to questions about his defense and willingness to play in a supporting / bench role.

If Thomas continues to succeed with the Celtics, his value might rise somewhat, but do you think other teams will really see him much differently than they did at the deadline this past season, or last off-season? 

I think Thomas is what he is, and though his contract is arguably a great value, I think it also represents the value the league places on him.  Useful in the right situation, but volatile and perhaps not content to the play the role for which he is best suited on a good team.  He's happy with the Celtics now because he's the undisputed #1 option.  A team that might trade for him probably won't be looking to use him that way.

You're the most pessimistic guy I've ever known in my whole life. And that's not based off this comment alone.

Hahaha you need to get around more my friend.

I am articulate and I frequently point out the weaknesses in optimistic positions.

You want to see some examples of extreme pessimism, they're out there.  Check out reddit.

Much respect for you, but foulweatherfan happens to be very thoughtful, intelligent, and well-spoken(typed), and I'm also not seeing what you're seeing re: IT. Many believed IT was worth more than an expiring and late first, hence their satisfaction with the trade. He proved to be a very good player this year. I imagine DA wouldn't blink at including he or Smart in a trade for an AS, probably just comes down to what the other team is wanting/needing more at the time.

What does AS stand for?   

[Csfan1984]

Many believed IT was worth more than an expiring and late first, hence their satisfaction with the trade. He proved to be a very good player this year.

It can be true that the Celtics got Isaiah for a good price and he was a good player for the Celtics this past year without it also being true that some other team is now willing to trade significantly more value for Isaiah.

The question here is whether Isaiah is worth as much to some other hypothetical team as he is to the Celtics.

Given what I've said above re: Isaiah being the #1 option in Boston, my answer is no, I don't think so.


If you think that's all over the top pessimistic, that's your prerogative.

I would say that is a different question all together. And one that is asked in dealing any player. The question referring to IT was on IT having value. Seems proven that he does. The question we should focus on is the op eluded to. Does Rozier open up the possibility of trading a guard?

[Csfan1984]

AS= All Star

[PhoSita]

Many believed IT was worth more than an expiring and late first, hence their satisfaction with the trade. He proved to be a very good player this year.

It can be true that the Celtics got Isaiah for a good price and he was a good player for the Celtics this past year without it also being true that some other team is now willing to trade significantly more value for Isaiah.

The question here is whether Isaiah is worth as much to some other hypothetical team as he is to the Celtics.

Given what I've said above re: Isaiah being the #1 option in Boston, my answer is no, I don't think so.


If you think that's all over the top pessimistic, that's your prerogative.

I would say that is a different question all together. And one that is asked in dealing any player. The question referring to IT was on IT having value. Seems proven that he does. The question we should focus on is the op eluded to. Does Rozier open up the possibility of trading a guard?

We have no idea if drafting Rozier opens up that opportunity it because so far we have no idea of he's a rotation player in the NBA or not.

As for IT, the discussion was not whether has value to the Celtics, but rather whether he could be a major piece in a trade package for an upgrade elsewhere on the roster. My opinion on this is that he is unlikely to fetch a much greater return going out than he cost coming in. That's because I think he's a bench player, and I think other teams view him the same.

[Alleyoopster]

AS= All Star

Thank you....