Barnes, Tobias, Ben, or Beal for more

[sawick48]

since it's pretty much a slow go right now figure I'd get some input from the CB forumers

let's assume that 4 young versatile wings are available in a trade (i'm aware non are right now, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility this changes for one or more of them during the season):

Harrison Barnes (contract year, enters RFA after this season for GS)
Tobias Harris (just inked a $64/4 extension with Orl)
Ben McLemore (entering 3rd year of his rookie contract)

for arguments sake, let's say these 3 men all cost about the same to acquire.  Bradley or Crowder, Young or Hunter, and a future Nets pick

and the 4th "available" wing:

Bradley Beal (contract year, same as Barnes, for WAS)

let's say since he's definitely a more well regarded prospect around the league than the 3 above, Beal costs more to acquire via trade - IT2 or Smart, Sullinger, a Nets pick, and a future Celtics 1st

taking financials out of it (i.e. not worrying about other contracts we'd have to take back to make the money of a trade work), and basing the trade solely on the exchange of talent and not what the other teams may think (i.e. The Wizards wouldnt be interested in taking back IT2's money in that it eats up cap space for their pursuit of Durant next offseason), and speaking strictly of the parts leaving and coming back to the Celtics: which option is more palatable to any of you out there and why?

personally i think Beal has what it takes to be a stud, and may have even undervalued the package it would take to land him (i could see us needing to pony up Kelly O or Zeller as well).  but even with those additional pieces i think he's the type of young player you take a big gamble on in the hopes that he reaches his potential and overcomes the injury bug.  second place for me i think would be Harris.  might be somewhat of a surprise to some but the guy rebounds the ball and is capable of playing a more traditional 4 role in a small ball offense if need be.  granted his defense is not as refined as either Barnes or McLemore, especially on the perimeter, 6'9" - 6'10" rebounders that can play in the post and have a decent stroke from 3 are hot commodities in today's nba.

i'm a big fan of Barnes and McLemore myself and while Barnes has started to scratch what he may become and Ben has yet to, i think both guys, especially with the right tutiledge, have the capabilities to be stars in this league (though not necessarily "franchise guys" themselves).  lotta talent out there for trade, curious to see the rest of the bloggers temperature with regards to these names.  looking forward to the feedback of which avenue is more desirable!

[slamtheking]

none of them are worth a Nets pick.

-Barnes is an OK player right now.  not even Jeff Green level
-Harris can score but doesn't seem to be more than a complementary starter on a good team
-Mclemore hasn't shown me he'll be more than a serviceable player yet (provided his improvement last year was just a beginning)
-Beal I like -- think he can be an all-star guard but he has issues staying healthy in his young career.  Still wouldn't give a Nets pick for him.

All of these players, except Harris, you're proposing to acquire based on their potential to improve.  I'm not big on acquiring those types of players for either established players who are currently better (and have room to improve such as AB, Crowder, Smart and Sully) or picks that are projected to be pretty high like those Nets picks (all 3 of them).

[PutItInTheAir]

i would go
1-beal
2-harris
3/4-ben, barnes

bradley,KO,PJ3 and a BOS pick for beal
bradley, turner,KO, PJ3 for harris
KO, young for ben maybe a pick
PJ3, young for harrison maybe a pick

[slamtheking]

i would go
1-beal
2-harris
3/4-ben, barnes

bradley,KO,PJ3 and a BOS pick for beal
bradley, turner,KO, PJ3 for harris
KO, young for ben maybe a pick
PJ3, young for harrison maybe a pick

Take out the pick (or swap it for one projected a little lower or a couple of seconds) and I'd do that deal for Beal.

[max215]

I like all of these guys a lot, but I wouldn't sell the farm for any of them.

[Csfan1984]

I'm also in the I wouldn't sell the farm for any camp. I think in dealing with each you can't be unloading too much because none are exactly stars. All are third option players at best right now. Basically more IT level players but with less defensive flaws. I think given the situation of each team the package shouldn't be too much either.

1. Barnes, he seems the best 2 way player potentially and GS may want to keep their cap in check.
Package= IT, Dallas pick, Young.
How crazy would it be for GS to have a weapon like IT to spell Curry or play with Curry in stretches for Klay. Best 3 guard rotation in the league no doubt.

2. Harris, he may not be a franchise player but he is already an excellent third option for a team. He seems to love being the guy to go to late. Does a lot of things well and still has potential to grow more.
Package=Sully, Turner, AJ, Dallas pick, Wolves pick*.
If Magic want more strength at PF because say Gordon is not progressing this may become more viable. They would likely have to believe they are a playoff team with Payton, Olidipo, Mario, AJ, Vucevic over Harris and Gordon starting. They were after Millsap in FA and seemed willing to let Harris go for the PF so this may not be too crazy.

3. McLemore, he is streaky but starting to show signs he may develop. As more of a developing piece he is also cheapest price of the options.
Package=AB
In this case Kings want more of a win now piece and want a glue guy like AB in the locker room. His defense first may be exactly what that starting lineup needs.

4. Beal. His contract demands wont match his play and he is often hurt. So I have him last and probably would not consider him. If there was a trade though I expect it to be built around the following
Package=AB, Sully and Dallas 1st.
Thinking Wall and Durant wouldn't mind more of a better defender around to let them score more. If building around Durant having a decent cost controlled SG helps instead of overpaying Beal. Sully helps their front court and a first may help to add more in building.

[slamtheking]

I'm also in the I wouldn't sell the farm for any camp. I think in dealing with each you can't be unloading too much because none are exactly stars. All are third option players at best right now. Basically more IT level players but with less defensive flaws. I think given the situation of each team the package shouldn't be too much either.

1. Barnes, he seems the best 2 way player potentially and GS may want to keep their cap in check.
Package= IT, Dallas pick, Young.
How crazy would it be for GS to have a weapon like IT to spell Curry or play with Curry in stretches for Klay. Best 3 guard rotation in the league no doubt.

2. Harris, he may not be a franchise player but he is already an excellent third option for a team. He seems to love being the guy to go to late. Does a lot of things well and still has potential to grow more.
Package=Sully, Turner, AJ, Dallas pick, Wolves pick*.
If Magic want more strength at PF because say Gordon is not progressing this may become more viable. They would likely have to believe they are a playoff team with Payton, Olidipo, Mario, AJ, Vucevic over Harris and Gordon starting. They were after Millsap in FA and seemed willing to let Harris go for the PF so this may not be too crazy.

3. McLemore, he is streaky but starting to show signs he may develop. As more of a developing piece he is also cheapest price of the options.
Package=AB
In this case Kings want more of a win now piece and want a glue guy like AB in the locker room. His defense first may be exactly what that starting lineup needs.

4. Beal. His contract demands wont match his play and he is often hurt. So I have him last and probably would not consider him. If there was a trade though I expect it to be built around the following
Package=AB, Sully and Dallas 1st.
Thinking Wall and Durant wouldn't mind more of a better defender around to let them score more. If building around Durant having a decent cost controlled SG helps instead of overpaying Beal. Sully helps their front court and a first may help to add more in building.

I think you ARE selling the farm in each of those deals. 

That Dallas pick is a lottery pick this year.  no way they make the playoffs (won't be close to it in the west) and they won't be the 7th worst team in the league.  Not parting with a projected lottery pick for a player that's not prove yet.

- IT & Young should be plenty for Barnes.  Got less for Jeff Green who's a much better player.
- Sully and Turner would be sufficient for Harris.  Maybe, the Wolves pick but that's overpaying.  he's a scorer but not a lot more than that.  Don't see the need to include Amir or the Dallas pick too.
- AB is much better than Mclemore and I'm not an AB fan.  longshot Mclemore develops into AB-lite at this point.
- Beal - this is the player I think has the most potential here to be a building block at SG.  My personal bias.  I'd go AB and Sully or exchange one of them for that Dallas pick (top 10 protected).  Beal isn't at AB's level defensively and Sully is not an insignificant piece to add to Washington.

[Evantime34]

I would be happy doing that deal for Barnes or Beal. Do not think McLeMore is worth as much as those guys and Harris' value diminishes because he is making like 8x what all the other players are making next year.

[Ilikesports17]

Beal, to me, seems untouchable.
McLemore and Barnes are nice but I think its an overpay for both. Harris is a guy who I wanted us to sign because I thought he was worth the deal he signed. He is not worth that deal + assets.

[Csfan1984]

I'm also in the I wouldn't sell the farm for any camp. I think in dealing with each you can't be unloading too much because none are exactly stars. All are third option players at best right now. Basically more IT level players but with less defensive flaws. I think given the situation of each team the package shouldn't be too much either.

1. Barnes, he seems the best 2 way player potentially and GS may want to keep their cap in check.
Package= IT, Dallas pick, Young.
How crazy would it be for GS to have a weapon like IT to spell Curry or play with Curry in stretches for Klay. Best 3 guard rotation in the league no doubt.

2. Harris, he may not be a franchise player but he is already an excellent third option for a team. He seems to love being the guy to go to late. Does a lot of things well and still has potential to grow more.
Package=Sully, Turner, AJ, Dallas pick, Wolves pick*.
If Magic want more strength at PF because say Gordon is not progressing this may become more viable. They would likely have to believe they are a playoff team with Payton, Olidipo, Mario, AJ, Vucevic over Harris and Gordon starting. They were after Millsap in FA and seemed willing to let Harris go for the PF so this may not be too crazy.

3. McLemore, he is streaky but starting to show signs he may develop. As more of a developing piece he is also cheapest price of the options.
Package=AB
In this case Kings want more of a win now piece and want a glue guy like AB in the locker room. His defense first may be exactly what that starting lineup needs.

4. Beal. His contract demands wont match his play and he is often hurt. So I have him last and probably would not consider him. If there was a trade though I expect it to be built around the following
Package=AB, Sully and Dallas 1st.
Thinking Wall and Durant wouldn't mind more of a better defender around to let them score more. If building around Durant having a decent cost controlled SG helps instead of overpaying Beal. Sully helps their front court and a first may help to add more in building.

I think you ARE selling the farm in each of those deals. 

That Dallas pick is a lottery pick this year.  no way they make the playoffs (won't be close to it in the west) and they won't be the 7th worst team in the league.  Not parting with a projected lottery pick for a player that's not prove yet.

- IT & Young should be plenty for Barnes.  Got less for Jeff Green who's a much better player.
- Sully and Turner would be sufficient for Harris.  Maybe, the Wolves pick but that's overpaying.  he's a scorer but not a lot more than that.  Don't see the need to include Amir or the Dallas pick too.
- AB is much better than Mclemore and I'm not an AB fan.  longshot Mclemore develops into AB-lite at this point.
- Beal - this is the player I think has the most potential here to be a building block at SG.  My personal bias.  I'd go AB and Sully or exchange one of them for that Dallas pick (top 10 protected).  Beal isn't at AB's level defensively and Sully is not an insignificant piece to add to Washington.

You might be right that it is overpaying for all of them but sure others are also going to say I'm overvaluing our players as well. A poster can never win lol

[sawick48]

I'm also in the I wouldn't sell the farm for any camp. I think in dealing with each you can't be unloading too much because none are exactly stars. All are third option players at best right now. Basically more IT level players but with less defensive flaws. I think given the situation of each team the package shouldn't be too much either.

1. Barnes, he seems the best 2 way player potentially and GS may want to keep their cap in check.
Package= IT, Dallas pick, Young.
How crazy would it be for GS to have a weapon like IT to spell Curry or play with Curry in stretches for Klay. Best 3 guard rotation in the league no doubt.

2. Harris, he may not be a franchise player but he is already an excellent third option for a team. He seems to love being the guy to go to late. Does a lot of things well and still has potential to grow more.
Package=Sully, Turner, AJ, Dallas pick, Wolves pick*.
If Magic want more strength at PF because say Gordon is not progressing this may become more viable. They would likely have to believe they are a playoff team with Payton, Olidipo, Mario, AJ, Vucevic over Harris and Gordon starting. They were after Millsap in FA and seemed willing to let Harris go for the PF so this may not be too crazy.

3. McLemore, he is streaky but starting to show signs he may develop. As more of a developing piece he is also cheapest price of the options.
Package=AB
In this case Kings want more of a win now piece and want a glue guy like AB in the locker room. His defense first may be exactly what that starting lineup needs.

4. Beal. His contract demands wont match his play and he is often hurt. So I have him last and probably would not consider him. If there was a trade though I expect it to be built around the following
Package=AB, Sully and Dallas 1st.
Thinking Wall and Durant wouldn't mind more of a better defender around to let them score more. If building around Durant having a decent cost controlled SG helps instead of overpaying Beal. Sully helps their front court and a first may help to add more in building.

I think you ARE selling the farm in each of those deals. 

That Dallas pick is a lottery pick this year.  no way they make the playoffs (won't be close to it in the west) and they won't be the 7th worst team in the league.  Not parting with a projected lottery pick for a player that's not prove yet.

- IT & Young should be plenty for Barnes.  Got less for Jeff Green who's a much better player.
- Sully and Turner would be sufficient for Harris.  Maybe, the Wolves pick but that's overpaying.  he's a scorer but not a lot more than that.  Don't see the need to include Amir or the Dallas pick too.
- AB is much better than Mclemore and I'm not an AB fan.  longshot Mclemore develops into AB-lite at this point.
- Beal - this is the player I think has the most potential here to be a building block at SG.  My personal bias.  I'd go AB and Sully or exchange one of them for that Dallas pick (top 10 protected).  Beal isn't at AB's level defensively and Sully is not an insignificant piece to add to Washington.

You might be right that it is overpaying for all of them but sure others are also going to say I'm overvaluing our players as well. A poster can never win lol

i actually thought Cs fans offers were fairly spot on.  some tweaking here and there sure, but far too many people here overvalue our own assets.  this offseason proved that our "warchest" of picks isn't all that attractive to other teams.  and since all these guys are potential based, we would have to overpay to acquire any of them anyway, save for maybe Barnes, as i just can't see GS opening the checkbook to have he, Bogut, Iggy, Curry, and Klay all making 8 figures per year

[kraidstar]

1. beal will be a star - he played like one in the playoffs last year when wall went down. he slashes, shoots, and creates. he almost lifted the wiz over the hawks. and he's only 22. i'd give up a lot for him, in a few years he might be a top-15 player.

2. harris - still raw, but a lot of potential; big and strong, reasonably efficient carrying a heavy load with little talent around him

3. barnes - solid roleplayer, but hasn't really improved much; also benefits offensively from easy looks generated by his teammates. not likely to turn into a star, and we need stars.

4. mclemore - IMO doesn't help his team, has shown nothing to make me think he's more than a second-stringer at best

[BDeCosta26]

It'll be interesting to see what direction GS looks to go with Barnes going forward. It wouldn't exactly make sense to trade away a player who was just an integral part of your championship, but he's not really irreplaceable for them. We saw in the finals he struggled being paired up with LeBron and Iggy ended up playing the lions share of minutes, and Barnes is going to command quite a large contract come next summer. The Warriors are going to be within luxury tax range and also have to re-sign Ezili, who it's been said could get to 10 million a year or more and it seems they'll definitely want to extend. My guy says they won't move him and he signs a big extension, but stranger things have happened.

From our prospective, Barnes is exactly the kind of guy who would like to target. Young, highly talented guy who has either underachieved or been limited by having multiple star teammates and who could thrive in a more featured role. For me, Barnes is that kind of guy. If he was theoretically available, it wouldn't take a full cash in of our assets to get him. We have a major need for a scoring wing, and Barnes could grow into that role. I think if we had him and Smart, and didn't give up a ton to get him, we would have the makings of something in the East. Even if those guys were traded for better players down the road. I have high hopes for the Nets and Mavs picks, I think they would both be top 10, but we need to get creative in looking for top-end talent and making a bet on a guy like Barnes, Harris, Porter Jr, Favors or McLemore is a good bet if it's not for a ton of chips.

Let's say a third of the way into the season it looks like Brooklyn is landing a top-10 pick, and Dallas is right in the 8-12 range we want them to be, would you trade the Nets pick for him? How about Bradley and the Dallas pick? Or Thomas and our pick? I would guess that's what they would want. They would want guys who have multiple years at a decent price and can help them stay in contention. A case could be made that trading Barnes for Bradley and a guy you can draft at #12 or Thomas and a guy you can get at #17 is better for long term success than paying Barnes 15mil a year or more to play an obviously limited role.

[ahonui06]

I would say Beal but not for 2 draft picks plus players.

In that case I would pursue Barnes since he is young and just like him more than Tobias Harris and Ben McLemore.

[slamtheking]

I'm also in the I wouldn't sell the farm for any camp. I think in dealing with each you can't be unloading too much because none are exactly stars. All are third option players at best right now. Basically more IT level players but with less defensive flaws. I think given the situation of each team the package shouldn't be too much either.

1. Barnes, he seems the best 2 way player potentially and GS may want to keep their cap in check.
Package= IT, Dallas pick, Young.
How crazy would it be for GS to have a weapon like IT to spell Curry or play with Curry in stretches for Klay. Best 3 guard rotation in the league no doubt.

2. Harris, he may not be a franchise player but he is already an excellent third option for a team. He seems to love being the guy to go to late. Does a lot of things well and still has potential to grow more.
Package=Sully, Turner, AJ, Dallas pick, Wolves pick*.
If Magic want more strength at PF because say Gordon is not progressing this may become more viable. They would likely have to believe they are a playoff team with Payton, Olidipo, Mario, AJ, Vucevic over Harris and Gordon starting. They were after Millsap in FA and seemed willing to let Harris go for the PF so this may not be too crazy.

3. McLemore, he is streaky but starting to show signs he may develop. As more of a developing piece he is also cheapest price of the options.
Package=AB
In this case Kings want more of a win now piece and want a glue guy like AB in the locker room. His defense first may be exactly what that starting lineup needs.

4. Beal. His contract demands wont match his play and he is often hurt. So I have him last and probably would not consider him. If there was a trade though I expect it to be built around the following
Package=AB, Sully and Dallas 1st.
Thinking Wall and Durant wouldn't mind more of a better defender around to let them score more. If building around Durant having a decent cost controlled SG helps instead of overpaying Beal. Sully helps their front court and a first may help to add more in building.

I think you ARE selling the farm in each of those deals. 

That Dallas pick is a lottery pick this year.  no way they make the playoffs (won't be close to it in the west) and they won't be the 7th worst team in the league.  Not parting with a projected lottery pick for a player that's not prove yet.

- IT & Young should be plenty for Barnes.  Got less for Jeff Green who's a much better player.
- Sully and Turner would be sufficient for Harris.  Maybe, the Wolves pick but that's overpaying.  he's a scorer but not a lot more than that.  Don't see the need to include Amir or the Dallas pick too.
- AB is much better than Mclemore and I'm not an AB fan.  longshot Mclemore develops into AB-lite at this point.
- Beal - this is the player I think has the most potential here to be a building block at SG.  My personal bias.  I'd go AB and Sully or exchange one of them for that Dallas pick (top 10 protected).  Beal isn't at AB's level defensively and Sully is not an insignificant piece to add to Washington.

You might be right that it is overpaying for all of them but sure others are also going to say I'm overvaluing our players as well. A poster can never win lol

i actually thought Cs fans offers were fairly spot on.  some tweaking here and there sure, but far too many people here overvalue our own assets.  this offseason proved that our "warchest" of picks isn't all that attractive to other teams.  and since all these guys are potential based, we would have to overpay to acquire any of them anyway, save for maybe Barnes, as i just can't see GS opening the checkbook to have he, Bogut, Iggy, Curry, and Klay all making 8 figures per year

I think the offers were a bit much and he acknowledge as much.  I get the concept of overpaying to get what you want but I don't agree that it's a good philosophy --> why would any could GM overpay and expect to constantly come out on the short end of trades?  Isaiah Thomas or Michael Jordan anyone?

as for the 'warchest', the only team we know that turned Danny down was Charlotte.  I haven't seen any other official rejections of an offer from Danny.  If you know of another confirmed rejection, I'd appreciate it if you could pass that along.  Atlanta apparently accepted some sort of deal to cough up the #15 without us giving up #16 so evidently the 'warchest' has some value to some teams. 

Charlotte turning down a reported offer of 4-6 picks for the C's to move up 6 spots speaks more to the foolishness of Charlotte's front office than it does to the C's assets.  Do you really think Frank Kaminsky is worth more than the players that will be taken with the picks the C's offered?  I haven't seen what the offer was to Atlanta to know if any of the other C's picks this year went to them but say it was for #15, #16, #28 and #33 plus the future picks --> I think Kelly Oubre, Rozier (or Portis if they took him instead), Hunter and Mickey would have been far more beneficial to Charlotte than Kaminsky will ever be.