Celtics Rank 4th in Top Young Cores

[LooseCannon]

I wouldn't be shocked if 1-2 players from the Celtics' bevy of youngsters take a step forward to becoming a Khris Middleton-level player in the next season or two.  All of those guys have a chance, some more than others, and we'll be suspicious about how much was due to the player and how much was due to the coach/system.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This ranking seems to equate having a lot of young players with having a valuable core.

Unfortunately for us, five quarters are actually worth much less than a dollar in the NBA world.

This is what I was talking about. It seems like we can't say anything positive about our young players without it being followed by, well they aren't stars so it doesn't matter if they are any good.

Agreed.

Well, at least for me, it's like talking about the merits of the tires, paint color, or upholstery on a car that doesn't have an engine or a transmission installed.

I'm gonna highjack your illustration:

Where is the car going? I'd argue that, since we have already had some success with our young core, that is proof that we have an engine that is taking us somewhere.

On the other, you cannot say that about the Kings, Magic, or Pistons. Each of these teams have players that are older and more developed than ours, but ours are winning.

In that case, I would argue that some of the gaudy numbers their young prospects throw up are more like the paintjob, because they make the car look pretty, but don't take them anywhere.

Some other teams (Wolves, Sixers) have prospects that are unproven, but they look legit. Still, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Others on this list would be harder to ignore. Getting a top 3 player like Davis may be worth our whole roster. The Jazz look like they are ready to explode into the playoffs this year; they have displayed about the same success that we have had, but they look like they have blue-chip talent. The Bucks have a really nice roster too. I'd love to be in their position.

But I like our team. I'm happy with the position we are in. We can be content to try to build a contending team by developing internally, or we can try to get a big name. Honestly, I think we could contend either way, maybe not this year, but with 3-4 years of development and chemistry, I think we could contend. And the beautiful thing is that we don't have to wait to see a winning basketball team in the mean time.

[Boris Badenov]

This ranking seems to equate having a lot of young players with having a valuable core.

Unfortunately for us, five quarters are actually worth much less than a dollar in the NBA world.

This is what I was talking about. It seems like we can't say anything positive about our young players without it being followed by, well they aren't stars so it doesn't matter if they are any good.

Agreed.

Well, at least for me, it's like talking about the merits of the tires, paint color, or upholstery on a car that doesn't have an engine or a transmission installed.

Sometimes it's nice to just admire the sweet ass tires you have even if the car isn't done yet.

I like our guys, don't get me wrong.

I was complaining about the ranking method more than us specifically. It has the same flaw - 4 quarters equal a dollar - as the draft pick power rankings at tankathon:

http://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings

You can't just add up values like that to get meaningful information. I mean, based on the draft pick power rankings, our bundle was worth more than those of SAC, DET, CHA and MIA - precisely the set of teams we tried to deal with, offering even more than all of our 2015 picks, only to get rejected.

[PhoSita]

I'm making a concerted effort to enjoy the young pieces that we do have, because I think the upcoming season will be a lot more fun if I focus on what we have instead of pining for what we don't.

I get that.

For my part, I like to combat it by thinking about rebuilding strategy.  Trying to chart a way through the forest.  Exercise in futility, but I do it anyway.

When the games are on, I watch them and enjoy them, and I never want to see them lose when they're playing, even if the rational part of me always wants to keep the big picture in mind.


I don't see Smart ever becoming the engine, but I'm optimistic he can become a very important part of the car.  The gearbox or something.  I don't know that much about cars.

[PhoSita]

You can't just add up values like that to get meaningful information. I mean, based on the draft pick power rankings, our bundle was worth more than those of SAC, DET, CHA and MIA - precisely the set of teams we tried to deal with, offering even more than all of our 2015 picks, only to get rejected.

Right. 

By the same logic, a team with five players who each accrue 5 Win Shares / WARP would be better off than a team with two players who each accrue 12 Win Shares / WARP, yet a look around the league will tell you that a team with multiple 10+ Win Share players would be very good, while the former team would probably be OK at best.

[Ilikesports17]

This ranking seems to equate having a lot of young players with having a valuable core.

Unfortunately for us, five quarters are actually worth much less than a dollar in the NBA world.

This is what I was talking about. It seems like we can't say anything positive about our young players without it being followed by, well they aren't stars so it doesn't matter if they are any good.

Agreed.

Well, at least for me, it's like talking about the merits of the tires, paint color, or upholstery on a car that doesn't have an engine or a transmission installed.

Sometimes it's nice to just admire the sweet ass tires you have even if the car isn't done yet.

I like our guys, don't get me wrong.

I was complaining about the ranking method more than us specifically. It has the same flaw - 4 quarters equal a dollar - as the draft pick power rankings at tankathon:

http://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings

You can't just add up values like that to get meaningful information. I mean, based on the draft pick power rankings, our bundle was worth more than those of SAC, DET, CHA and MIA - precisely the set of teams we tried to deal with, offering even more than all of our 2015 picks, only to get rejected.

I know its not your main point here but Im not sure how much of those trades getting rejected was bad management and how much was the offer.

[littleteapot]

Somewhat random question: Would you trade young cores with any contenders? I definitely think Cleveland and Toronto are worth considering.

[PhoSita]

Somewhat random question: Would you trade young cores with any contenders? I definitely think Cleveland and Toronto are worth considering.

Toronto's not a contender, and their "young" core is what, Valanciunas, Ross, Wright, Caboclo, and Noguiera?  Not good enough for me.


Cleveland is a yes because they have Kyrie.

I'm not sure if there are any other true contenders with cores young enough to count for the purposes of this discussion.  Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka are all a year or so beyond the cut-off point.


Not a contender, really, but how about Washington?

Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre.

First two names alone propel them way ahead of us.

[littleteapot]

OK by "contender" I mean legit playoff team.

I think I'd still count Wall as young, so yeah I'd definitely go for Washington.

[Celtics4ever]

I love watching us good or bad, when the game starts, I find I can never root for us to lose the game.  I think this year additions helped us it looks like Ainge found three NBA ballers in this draft, in Rozier, Hunter and Mickey.  We already have some assets in Smart whom I think will be fun to watch because of the way he plays.   I am not nor have I ever been high on Olynyk, who play ebbs and flows with his confidence and he is limited some athletically.  I also am not high, not on Sully because or athletic limitations and weight and conditioning issues.   Basketball all too often is an athlete's game.   I was happy we drafted two real good athletes to add to Smart who is a good one as well.  Some of the non athletic guys have some skills, but athletes can get skill too and when they do, they combine that skill with athletic ability it really helps and is a superior combination.

[greece66]

So, we are the second in the East behind the Bucks (Giannis and Parker is a tough combo to beat).

Given that more draft picks are coming and we are pretty solid in developing talent, sounds good to me 

[colincb]

Would be nice if we could see what the article said about us, I don't have nor would I ever consider paying for insider.

Via reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/3dygkg/celtics_4_in_doolittles_ranking_of_top_young_cores/ct9s3xr

TP.

...top-10: bucks, pelicans, jazz, celtics, 76ers, blazers, hornets, raptors, magic, pistons...

Surprised SAC was 11th, but it must all Cousins (not much detail on other teams). IIRC WCS doesn't fare that well in Pelton's WARP projections and McLemore is more of a figment of some CBloggers' imagination so far with a PER of 10 in his second season and not much defense to go with it. Not much of a shot creator which would be a liability in the playoffs if the Kings ever sniffed them. Still he's not the absolute bust he looked like as a rookie. Among the bottom 10:

The teams that stand out are the ones who aren't competing for championships and, thus, shouldn't be in this group. That includes Denver, New York and Brooklyn....The Nets' picture is truly dreary though. Their highest-ranked forecasts are for Thomas Robinson and Chris McCullough, and it's debatable that the latter should have even been included given his knee injury and probable unavailability.

One Lopez injury away from a top 5 pick for any of the next 3 years.

[Moranis]

Golden State wasn't mentioned.  They have Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, and Harrison Barnes that fall into the appropriate age range.  That would be a nice little trio for any team to start with.  Not to mention James McAdoo and Kevin Looney. 

I'd take one Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Drummond, etc. over every single player on the Celtics.  Heck Wiggins, Towns, Rubio, Lavine, etc. is an incredible young core.  You see this is the problem with the methodology chosen.  Quantity outranks quality and just can't do that in the NBA.

[littleteapot]

I'd take one Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Drummond, etc. over every single player on the Celtics.  Heck Wiggins, Towns, Rubio, Lavine, etc. is an incredible young core.  You see this is the problem with the methodology chosen.  Quantity outranks quality and just can't do that in the NBA.

OK this is taking it too far. Every young guy on our team for Zach Lavine or Kawhi Leonard? Are you kidding me?

It's better to have a dollar than 4 quarters in the NBA. But 4 quarters are better than a slightly shinier quarter.

[PhoSita]

Golden State wasn't mentioned.  They have Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, and Harrison Barnes that fall into the appropriate age range. 

If I recall correctly, Thompson is 25 and his birthday is in April, so he doesn't count, unless his birthday falls after the end of the regular season.

But yeah, splitting hairs.  The Warriors are young and have a fantastic core.