Is Brad good at developing talent?

[Rondo2287]

couldn't disagree more.

Doc didn't play young players unless he had no choice in the matter.  Every single case of a young player getting minutes under Doc is because Doc didn't have a vet to put on the floor instead.

This topic came up constantly when Doc was here and I'd always ask the people defending Doc the same question that could never be answered --> name a veteran player who was sat on the bench behind a young player so they would get playing time.  never happened.

Didn't Ray Allen leave in part because doc started Bradley over him?

Ray was out injured and Doc had no choice but to play AB.  by the time Ray was ready to come back, the AB genie was out of the bottle.

So you mean he developed a young player who then outperformed a veteran and the veteran couldn't earn his starting spot back

[RockinRyA]

Wow, judging him for just 2 years? There were only 3 rookies he handled, Smart, Young and Olynyk, and 2 years isnt enough to judge if a player has developed or not.

However, he made guys like Evan Turner and Jordan Crawford look decent.

[celts10]

Brad would have turned Gabe Pruitt into a star.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

It should be said that the system Brad Stevens employs does not exactly lend itself to individual players consistently putting up really flashy numbers.

Brad may also be the kind of coach who is really good at getting the most out of the pieces you put in front of him collectively, but who does not necessarily excel at building up prospects into star players.

TP. If/when we win a championship under Brad Stevens, our team will resemble the San Antonio Spurs a lot more than it will resemble the 2010-14 Miami Heat.

[Evantime34]

I don't think Doc was that great at developing players he almost never played rookies. You could give him credit for the young players that developed over his tenure, but I think a lot more credit of developing those players go to having elite quality veterans and them learning by being around successful playoff teams.

As to Brad, there is no way to know yet, because Marcus Smart was the first guy who he helped draft that is getting minutes. In general I think the development of players has as much to do with the front office, veterans and assistant coaches as it does with the head coach.

For example, if Marcus blows up this year Stevens might deserve some of the credit but really the reason Smart will develop is because of his tremendous work ethic.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I remember an off-season in which Ainge admitted on radio that he neglected to acquire players to force Doc's hand to play younger ones, I think the context that time was about giving playing time to Rajon Rondo. I think the interview occurred after we won the championship, though I might be mistaken on the timeline.

[gift]

I was reading a comment on Jeff’s front page post about what big names could the Celtics be targeting.  The comment was on player development and how Brad Stevens has done a much better job of this than Doc did.

I think I have to completely disagree.  Here are some players that were developed under Doc:
Rondo (21st overall) – 4x all star
Kendrick Perkins (27th overall) – starting center on a championship team type player
Al Jefferson (15th overall) – in his third (and last) season with us, he was averaging 16/11 on 51% shooting.  Went on to average 21ppg his next season in Minn.
Tony Allen (25th overall) – starter on a championship contender type player
Delonte West (24th overall) – serviceable role player

Doc actually did an excellent job developing these “purgatory picks” into solid NBA talent.  Names like Delonte, Tony, Kendrick might not overwhelm you, but often times guys in that range of picks don't even get a second NBA contract.

Who has Brad Stevens developed?  I have to give Brad more time, but in two years, I haven’t seen nearly the amount of development in Sullinger, Olynyk, AB, or Smart that I’d like to have.  When you have 4 players like that picked in the 6-20 range and all the playing time in the world to hand out to them, you’ve gotta develop at least one of them into a player who a non-celtic fan would bet even money on having at least one all-star appearance in his career.

That said, I’m still hopeful that in more time the Celtics organization will develop some of this young talent.  But I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Brad is better at developing young talent Doc was.  Doc had a reputation for not playing young players, but maybe it made them work their butts off for that playing time (AB, Glen Davis) which helped them become more than they originally would have.

How good were all the players you listed after Doc's second year?

[ahonui06]

CBS seems to be great at developing talent. Despite the extreme roster turnover last season, Boston still made the playoffs albeit in the East. The team is very young and is poised to grow this season as well.

[action781]

I'm a big fan of Brad and have been vocal about that in my posting (which isn't as frequent as it used to be).  He is a very good coach and I hope he has a Jerry Sloan like tenure here -- with some championships sprinkled in.

I just always assumed Brad was good at developing talent (because he turned a really bad roster into a playoff team) and that Doc was really bad (because of the stated points about his rep for never playing the youngins).

But it does appear that Doc did a pretty good job when he was here when you reflect back on the players.  And to someone who mentioned he never turned a 2nd round pick into an NBA player, Glen Davis is that player, and that is a really hard thing to do.

I do think that two years is too short of a time to fully evaluate Brad on this, as it is by definition a task that takes time.  But two years ago when Brad took over (and one year ago in the case of Marcus), I absolutely expected that today I would be looking at a Sullinger, Olynyk, and Marcus, and AB that were farther along than they are today.  Does anybody feel similarly?

Somebody pointed out that perhaps Brad's system simply focuses more on developing the whole rather than developing the parts.  I think there is some serious truth to that.  That is a great thing for basketball.  While it may hurt our ability to lure the superstars who want to play with other superstars, maybe it will enhance our ability to lure players who want to play good basketball.

[action781]

I was reading a comment on Jeff’s front page post about what big names could the Celtics be targeting.  The comment was on player development and how Brad Stevens has done a much better job of this than Doc did.

I think I have to completely disagree.  Here are some players that were developed under Doc:
Rondo (21st overall) – 4x all star
Kendrick Perkins (27th overall) – starting center on a championship team type player
Al Jefferson (15th overall) – in his third (and last) season with us, he was averaging 16/11 on 51% shooting.  Went on to average 21ppg his next season in Minn.
Tony Allen (25th overall) – starter on a championship contender type player
Delonte West (24th overall) – serviceable role player

Doc actually did an excellent job developing these “purgatory picks” into solid NBA talent.  Names like Delonte, Tony, Kendrick might not overwhelm you, but often times guys in that range of picks don't even get a second NBA contract.

Who has Brad Stevens developed?  I have to give Brad more time, but in two years, I haven’t seen nearly the amount of development in Sullinger, Olynyk, AB, or Smart that I’d like to have.  When you have 4 players like that picked in the 6-20 range and all the playing time in the world to hand out to them, you’ve gotta develop at least one of them into a player who a non-celtic fan would bet even money on having at least one all-star appearance in his career.

That said, I’m still hopeful that in more time the Celtics organization will develop some of this young talent.  But I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Brad is better at developing young talent Doc was.  Doc had a reputation for not playing young players, but maybe it made them work their butts off for that playing time (AB, Glen Davis) which helped them become more than they originally would have.

How good were all the players you listed after Doc's second year?

That's a really good point.  Big Al didn't turn the corner until year 3.  Rondo didn't turn the corner until certainly after year 2.  Tony and Delonte it's easy to look back on now as successful, but you wouldn't do the same after year 2.  That gives me hope for optimism and I hope Danny realizes that too and considers this while exercising patience.

[littleteapot]

One thing about comparing young guys Doc developed in hindsight to the guys Stevens is trying to develop now is that we're comparing every young guy the C's are trying out under Brad to just the guys that worked under Doc.

Some of the guys on our team right now are going to turn out like Ryan Gomes and whatnot, but if a few live up to their potential, you have to give credit to the C's current organization and Stevens.

[KG Living Legend]

yes he is.

[action781]

One thing about comparing young guys Doc developed in hindsight to the guys Stevens is trying to develop now is that we're comparing every young guy the C's are trying out under Brad to just the guys that worked under Doc.

Some of the guys on our team right now are going to turn out like Ryan Gomes and whatnot, but if a few live up to their potential, you have to give credit to the C's current organization and Stevens.

That's true, but at least there were guys under Doc that did develop when we haven't really found a single one yet under Stevens.  I wondered if it was too soon to judge and maybe it is.  But I guess I am a bit underwhelmed that you couldn't trade a single celtics player straight up for solid, yet unspectacular prospects like Nerlens Noel, Giannis, Rudy Gobert, or maybe even Elfrid Payton or Dennis Schroeder.  That's how little progress all of our players have made individually.  While I am very pleased with how our team has progressed collectively.  I do wonder which is more important though.

[Celtics4ever]

Smart improved last year.   Stevens is a gets more out of his guys kind of coach. Evan Turner is a great example.

Some of what he is working with is already skilled just not athletic so there is less room to grow.   KO and Sully being the prime examples.

[Mlewis1392]

perry Jones and I hope he is great at developing talent