Sullinger continuing to slim down?

[Celtics4ever]

As I've said before, even an "out of shape" Sully is a good and productive player. To me this is more about him taking the next step rather then being bad vs. good that is the opinion of most around here.

Not on defense which is half of the game.  Also his FG% stinks and he is not that efficient, he is productive, a good rebounder but good player is a total stretch.   

[BudweiserCeltic]

As I've said before, even an "out of shape" Sully is a good and productive player. To me this is more about him taking the next step rather then being bad vs. good that is the opinion of most around here.

Not on defense which is half of the game.  Also his FG% stinks and he is not that efficient, he is productive, a good rebounder but good player is a total stretch.   

Thanks for the fresh angle you've taken for this discussion, my eyes have opened.

[D Dub]

Hard to forget that game @LAC last year... 

How embarrassing it was running a guy out there with such poor conditioning against Blake & DJ.  Those two literally were hardly sweating and there's Sully doubled over completely winded bonking out on the court. 

I don't really see it as a weight issue, 6'9 dudes are gonna be big...  Main issue IMO is improving his cardio to that of a professional athlete.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Maybe it will turn out to be a good thing. Its a contract year and we have plenty of depth at his position, maybe we should play Lee and other over him.....then resign him for less money than if he showed up fit for just 1 season to get paid and then gets fat again.

[RJ87]

I wouldn't get my hopes up with this dude. Even if he loses weight, who says he can keep it off?

As I've said before, even an "out of shape" Sully is a good and productive player. To me this is more about him taking the next step rather then being bad vs. good that is the opinion of most around here.

This.

sully's a solid player.  just a matter of getting better which would include better physical conditioning.

Sully is a solid player - as long as he's on his rookie contract. That's the issue I have moving forward - how long should the C's give him to "take the next step"? He is eligible to sign an extension or can go to restricted free agency next offseason. Should they really be comfortable signing him to longterm money? There are some players worth the potential investment, but I don't know if Sully's worth the risk at this point. He's going into his 4th year (after playing 2 years  in college) and he's already had back and foot issues in addition to the ongoing weight thing. I just don't think that's the type of guy you give a multi-year, 8 figure extension to if he's continuously out of shape.

[KG Living Legend]

He does look a bit slimmer and prob ha gained some stamina. Still "slow twitch".  I don't think he will ever add much explosivenss

Danny is watching and I think is going to trade him when the opportunity presents.   Sully , Turner and possibly Young are players on their way out for a SF/PF

Haha TP for slow twitch Triboy.

 That's a scientific principle that's almost never used around here. You either have those fibers or you don't. Rozier has them. Sully does not.

[td450]

He's never been that good.

He's a quality rebounder, and can pass fairly well for a big. He looks like he is better than he really is, because he tends to get pretty good shots, and when he is on, he looks polished and posts impressive numbers. Unfortunately, over the long run, his numbers are in line with a marginal player.

He's also a very poor defender, who is worse than he looks there too. He's only below average at head to head coverage of most centers, but is probably the worst help defender in the entire league. Our lack of depth at center forced the coaches to do this. But put him on a power forward that has any offensive game, and he's a disaster.

[Celtics4ever]

Thanks for the fresh angle you've taken for this discussion, my eyes have opened.

I wonder if they will ever be, I posted video of him this summer moving slower than ever and you still seem smitten with him.  Must be the beergoggles, Budweisterceltic?

[chambers]

As I've said before, even an "out of shape" Sully is a good and productive player. To me this is more about him taking the next step rather then being bad vs. good that is the opinion of most around here.

Not on defense which is half of the game.  Also his FG% stinks and he is not that efficient, he is productive, a good rebounder but good player is a total stretch.

I think you'll find that both Sully and Olynyk cope much better defensively with Amir Johnson out there. Sully's not a bad defender. He struggles against quickness but does very well against length for someone without too much length himself. He's a solid post defender in 1v1's and has spent most of his career trying to defend his player and Kelly Olynyk's player.

His FG% is bad because he's trying to become a 3 point shooter.
His 2 point FG% is 49.4% which is excellent. He's been our best rebounder and an excellent passer out of the post with some stretch ability.

He was picked at #20 or something, so I will never complain because he's completely outplayed/outperformed his draft spot.
In fact he's a top 6 or 7 player from his draft.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Thanks for the fresh angle you've taken for this discussion, my eyes have opened.

I wonder if they will ever be, I posted video of him this summer moving slower than ever and you still seem smitten with him.  Must be the beergoggles, Budweisterceltic?

You mean, a pro am game in which no one is playing hard? That's the one I should take as the Bible to project what kind of player he'll be this year or to analyze how he's currently playing? Makes awesome sense.

[Celtics4ever]

You mean, a pro am game in which no one is playing hard? That's the one I should take as the Bible to project what kind of player he'll be this year or to analyze how he's currently playing? Makes awesome sense.

Trouble is he plays the same way for the Celtics.  Practice makes perfect, practice moving slow and not running, when you need to get in shape simply does not help you.  Basketball is a game of habits (Bill Russell said that) and those are bad habits in that video.  Besides those guys were D III guys who will never sniff a pro court or pay basketball for a living.  That makes them a good basketball to a guy on the street but it is not D I.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25158149/video-jared-sullinger-sets-solid-screen-on-his-own-teammate

I think you'll find that both Sully and Olynyk cope much better defensively with Amir Johnson out there.

I think that is is true.   But I disagree on the good one on one defender on Sully.   I think he is slow and can't jump.  He has a penchant for commiting fouls and so does Olynyk because they are too slow to stay with their man.   Our D was much better with Jerebko in their at the end of games last year.  Sully does well when he can lay his body on a man, however, if a can move some he is less effective.  He also does better in a half court non running game.

has spent most of his career trying to defend his player and Kelly Olynyk's player.

 I suggest you take a good luck at RPM, you will see that KO is the better defender of the two.  He also has better stats guarding PF and C, more defensive win shares too.  But truth be told,   I think both they guys are slow and un-athletic.

https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS20.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS19.HTM

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sullija01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01.html

Plenty of stats there.  If you don't believe in one, look at another, there are several that are interesting, look at opponent production 82 games.  Slight edge to Olynyk, RPM considerable edge to Olynyk.   Defensive wins share KO wins by a slight amount but truth be told they are both horrible.

If his defense is so good, why would Stevens say this when he got back from the over eating stress injury.

Brad Stevens on how Sullinger's return will affect playing time: We will not sacrifice our defensive versatility.

  https://twitter.com/celticshub/status/584041294634348546

That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement.

You have a choice to make when you’re not playing. Either you’re invested and a great teammate, or your not” – Brad Stevens

http://www.basketballforcoaches.com/basketball-quotes/

I think we know that he was not invested.   He may be now, he may not.   He better be because Ainge served him notice.   It would help the team, some perhaps, but he has Oly both are slow guys.   In shape slow guys are still slow.   The Warrior just won with small ball but their guys were athletes.   Sooner or later, we need better big men,   Ainge got a few in Lee, who has his warts as well, and Johnson who should help.  Jerebko is very steady.  We ought to be deep this year but we do not have tons of separation of talent or a star.   We have a lack of two way players.   CBS literally has to pick his poison each night, does he go with defense and minor offense, offense without defense.  I don't envy him.

[Hardwood Harry]

At best Sully can be what Big Baby was for that stretch in the playoffs or trade bait, at worst.......
Jabba The Hutt

[BudweiserCeltic]

You mean, a pro am game in which no one is playing hard? That's the one I should take as the Bible to project what kind of player he'll be this year or to analyze how he's currently playing? Makes awesome sense.

Trouble is he plays the same way for the Celtics.  Practice makes perfect, practice moving slow and not running, when you need to get in shape simply does not help you.  Basketball is a game of habits (Bill Russell said that) and those are bad habits in that video.  Besides those guys were D III guys who will never sniff a pro court or pay basketball for a living.  That makes them a good basketball to a guy on the street but it is not D I.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25158149/video-jared-sullinger-sets-solid-screen-on-his-own-teammate

I'll just leave this response here, and save myself some time:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=79867.msg1930789#msg1930789

Brad Stevens on how Sullinger's return will affect playing time: We will not sacrifice our defensive versatility.

  https://twitter.com/celticshub/status/584041294634348546

That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement.

And yet instead of leaving Sullinger in the bench, he started playing him including increasing minutes towards the end of the season, including increasing minutes during the playoffs. So... what DID Stevens actually mean by that quote? It certainly didn't mean that he wouldn't play Sullinger. And if you hold him to his word, and he actually began playing Sullinger more as we went on, does it mean that Stevens ACTUALLY saw some defensive value in Sullinger once he returned? Just working with your interpretation of course.

[Chief Macho]

he needs to do whatever kevin love did.   it's more than losing weight,  it's transforming his body into a nba body.  i'm not sure he has that level of professionalism.  it's not easy, for sure,  and if he doesn't do it, it really tells you all you need to know about his career.

[clover]

Hard to forget that game @LAC last year... 

How embarrassing it was running a guy out there with such poor conditioning against Blake & DJ.  Those two literally were hardly sweating and there's Sully doubled over completely winded bonking out on the court. 

I don't really see it as a weight issue, 6'9 dudes are gonna be big...  Main issue IMO is improving his cardio to that of a professional athlete.

Very few 6'9" NBA players have the weight issues of Sully.