Joel Embiid Likely Out for the Season, Will Have Second Surgery

[MBunge]

Disagreements are the lifeblood of this forum.   If you want to see this place at it's most boring, go back to 2008.  Forum activity took a nose dive.  There was nothing to complain about.  We all just kind of stood around staring blankly at each other.  "This team is pretty good, yeah?"... "yeah".   I think the only time stuff got interesting was when someone declared that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than Hakeem in his prime.  Then I had to dust off the ol curmudgeon cranky-pants and see if I still had my disagreement sea legs. 

I'm going to be right sometimes.  I'm going to be wrong sometimes.  I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I'm an admitted pessimist and I don't take this all that seriously.  Nobody should take me all that seriously either.  I try to add to discussions whenever possible and it just so happens that my point of view usually goes against popular opinion.   It's not like I scan a thread, look for popular opinion and then intentionally argue against it.  Sometimes, it's surprising to me what the popular opinion actually is... like recently when I expressed satisfaction about the David Lee trade, looked around and saw that a lot of people were inexplicably unhappy with it. 

I liked Noel and Embiid well before they were on Philly.  I liked them when they were Celtic targets.  I still believe Noel is going to be a perennial all-defensive big and people are underselling his potential.  I still want Boston to get him.   People who know a lot more about basketball than I do insist that Embiid is a transcendent prospect.  Everyone was quick to bury him, because he plays on Philly and because the comparisons to Greg Oden are there... but I still maintain that nothing I read about Embiid coming from the actual team suggested this was a doomsday scenario.   And it's still not clear on the severity of his surgery.    Nonetheless, it seems I was wrong about Embiid.  It's not the first time I've been wrong.  But I don't regret any of the Embiid posts I made.   Was I naive to gloss over the media tweets about Embiid possibly needing surgery?  Should I have just joined along with everyone else and pre-maturely danced on Embiid's grave?  I mean... maybe?   I admitted many times that both sides were speculating.  I just happened to be speculating based on what I read directly from Embiid's camp, Bill Self, Hinkie and the 76ers CEO.  It didn't seem like surgery was a certainty.  GIven that it took several weeks and several doctors to apparently pull the trigger on surgery, I think I was right to be skeptical.   I'm still rather confused on what this surgery is about, though.  If it's to fix a re-break, it means that all the stuff I was reading for the 76ers camp (where they explicitly said he didn't re-injure himself and they were just seeing "different" results in the routine CT scan) was inaccurate.

Let me make it clear.  If your position had been "Anyone who writes off a player as talented as Embiid when he's this young is an idiot, but the fact that anyone is still even talking about health issues with Embiid is a bad sign" very few would have been at all irritated with you.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

Disagreements are the lifeblood of this forum.   If you want to see this place at it's most boring, go back to 2008.  Forum activity took a nose dive.  There was nothing to complain about.  We all just kind of stood around staring blankly at each other.  "This team is pretty good, yeah?"... "yeah".   I think the only time stuff got interesting was when someone declared that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than Hakeem in his prime.  Then I had to dust off the ol curmudgeon cranky-pants and see if I still had my disagreement sea legs. 

I'm going to be right sometimes.  I'm going to be wrong sometimes.  I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I'm an admitted pessimist and I don't take this all that seriously.  Nobody should take me all that seriously either.  I try to add to discussions whenever possible and it just so happens that my point of view usually goes against popular opinion.   It's not like I scan a thread, look for popular opinion and then intentionally argue against it.  Sometimes, it's surprising to me what the popular opinion actually is... like recently when I expressed satisfaction about the David Lee trade, looked around and saw that a lot of people were inexplicably unhappy with it. 

I liked Noel and Embiid well before they were on Philly.  I liked them when they were Celtic targets.  I still believe Noel is going to be a perennial all-defensive big and people are underselling his potential.  I still want Boston to get him.   People who know a lot more about basketball than I do insist that Embiid is a transcendent prospect.  Everyone was quick to bury him, because he plays on Philly and because the comparisons to Greg Oden are there... but I still maintain that nothing I read about Embiid coming from the actual team suggested this was a doomsday scenario.   And it's still not clear on the severity of his surgery.    Nonetheless, it seems I was wrong about Embiid.  It's not the first time I've been wrong.  But I don't regret any of the Embiid posts I made.   Was I naive to gloss over the media tweets about Embiid possibly needing surgery?  Should I have just joined along with everyone else and pre-maturely danced on Embiid's grave?  I mean... maybe?   I admitted many times that both sides were speculating.  I just happened to be speculating based on what I read directly from Embiid's camp, Bill Self, Hinkie and the 76ers CEO.  It didn't seem like surgery was a certainty.  GIven that it took several weeks and several doctors to apparently pull the trigger on surgery, I think I was right to be skeptical.   I'm still rather confused on what this surgery is about, though.  If it's to fix a re-break, it means that all the stuff I was reading for the 76ers camp (where they explicitly said he didn't re-injure himself and they were just seeing "different" results in the routine CT scan) was inaccurate.

Let me make it clear.  If your position had been "Anyone who writes off a player as talented as Embiid when he's this young is an idiot, but the fact that anyone is still even talking about health issues with Embiid is a bad sign" very few would have been at all irritated with you.

Mike

Why are people irritated with me, Mike?  For glossing over the tweets from unspecified sources and sharing what was actually known about Embiid's situation?

[hwangjini_1]

easier to type than "self-congratulatory cycle of backslapping from a series of posters who seem to do nothing but seek validation over someone else's incorrect opinion/forecast -- a forecast given prior to the newest developments."

Sorry if it offended your delicate sensibilities... although I'd point out that '[dang]' is prohibited language on CB. 


edit: working, rewritten for clarity.

tp for a good post.

[tankcity!]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Your self-congratulatory self-righteousness is overlooking two points.

1.  There's a difference between being optimistic about a proven NBA player coming back from injury and being in denial about a kid who couldn't make it through one season of college ball, even when there were still questions about his health a full year later.

2.  This is a Celtics board for Celtics fans.  It's normal for us to be stupid and stubborn about our players.  LarBrd is a guy who claims to be a Celtics fan while not only drooling over everything Hinkie does but dismisses everyone on the current Boston roster as "talentless mediocrities" while raving about the potential of Anthony Bennett, Bismack Biyombo and Nic Stuaskus.

If anyone ever deserves the "point and laugh" treatment, it is LarBrd at this moment.

Mike

I mean you compared Doug McDermott to Paul Pierce but I don't bring that up as evidence that you're an idiot. Maybe I should?

The Celtics, as constructed, are not a good team. Realizing that doesn't make you a bad fan. Obviously we're all free to disagree or whatever, but the backslapping leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that's all.

Holy crap, what a burn!

[LGC88]

For what is worth, I'm not irritated with LarBrd. I learn to know him, and learn to appreciate him too. Most of the time I disagree with him, but I recognize when he's right or when he makes good points.
There are other users much more irritating than him, haha

[footey]

Don't see how this refers to not tanking, this is just bad drafting
I root for tank and still does this season, and i never wanted Embiid(and okafor)
Don't forget we TANKED(or sucked if you like) to get SMART

If Embiid was available at 6, Danny would have taken him, he said so himself.  Let's not get smug here.  Most of us would have been on board with that decision then. I know I would have.  The reports on his foot were not all that alarming then. Who knows what this means for his career.  Maybe the foot needs to be re-set because it was not done correctly the first time. Look at the problems Gronk went through with his broken arm, infection, etc.  Did that ultimately affect his return to be a great player? No.  I would not be so fast to say Embiid is washed up. It is troublesome, but to say he is finished as a player is way too premature.  I'd still offer a decent package to get him.  Like Sully and a future first round pick.  Because, if healthy, I think he will be phenomenal.

[D.o.s.]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Your self-congratulatory self-righteousness is overlooking two points.

1.  There's a difference between being optimistic about a proven NBA player coming back from injury and being in denial about a kid who couldn't make it through one season of college ball, even when there were still questions about his health a full year later.

2.  This is a Celtics board for Celtics fans.  It's normal for us to be stupid and stubborn about our players.  LarBrd is a guy who claims to be a Celtics fan while not only drooling over everything Hinkie does but dismisses everyone on the current Boston roster as "talentless mediocrities" while raving about the potential of Anthony Bennett, Bismack Biyombo and Nic Stuaskus.

If anyone ever deserves the "point and laugh" treatment, it is LarBrd at this moment.

Mike

I mean you compared Doug McDermott to Paul Pierce but I don't bring that up as evidence that you're an idiot. Maybe I should?

The Celtics, as constructed, are not a good team. Realizing that doesn't make you a bad fan. Obviously we're all free to disagree or whatever, but the backslapping leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that's all.

Holy crap, what a burn!

If only it were true. Turns out I'm the idiot who can't remember things correctly.¯\_(*-*)_/¯

[Moranis]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

ah I forgot the blind sheep phenomenon.  That probably explains it.

On NBA Open court this June Steve Smith said he had never heard the term 'tanking' "before a couple of years ago." Does that seem realistic to you?

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qf01WfNZE

At about the 4:00 mark.

Of course not since you know the whole reason the lottery was implemented was the widespread tanking for Hakeem. 

[tankcity!]

Disagreements are the lifeblood of this forum.   If you want to see this place at it's most boring, go back to 2008.  Forum activity took a nose dive.  There was nothing to complain about.  We all just kind of stood around staring blankly at each other.  "This team is pretty good, yeah?"... "yeah".   I think the only time stuff got interesting was when someone declared that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than Hakeem in his prime.  Then I had to dust off the ol curmudgeon cranky-pants and see if I still had my disagreement sea legs. 

I'm going to be right sometimes.  I'm going to be wrong sometimes.  I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I'm an admitted pessimist and I don't take this all that seriously.  Nobody should take me all that seriously either.  I try to add to discussions whenever possible and it just so happens that my point of view usually goes against popular opinion.   It's not like I scan a thread, look for popular opinion and then intentionally argue against it.  Sometimes, it's surprising to me what the popular opinion actually is... like recently when I expressed satisfaction about the David Lee trade, looked around and saw that a lot of people were inexplicably unhappy with it.  But Boston fans notoriously slant towards optimistic homerism... so it shouldn't be a shock that an admitted pessimist would often disagree with the popular opinion.  (FWIW, Bill Simmons seems to be in the Boston pessimistic camp as well... which is probably why I tend to agree with him and why a large chunk of Celtic fans dislike him in spite of his obvious Celtic fandom).   

I liked Noel and Embiid well before they were on Philly.  I liked them when they were Celtic targets.  I still believe Noel is going to be a perennial all-defensive big and people are underselling his potential.  I still want Boston to get him.   People who know a lot more about basketball than I do insist that Embiid is a transcendent prospect.  Everyone was quick to bury him, because he plays on Philly and because the comparisons to Greg Oden are there... but I still maintain that nothing I read about Embiid coming from the actual team suggested this was a doomsday scenario.   And it's still not clear on the severity of his surgery.    Nonetheless, it seems I was wrong about Embiid.  It's not the first time I've been wrong.  But I don't regret any of the Embiid posts I made.   Was I naive to gloss over the media tweets about Embiid possibly needing surgery?  Should I have just joined along with everyone else and pre-maturely danced on Embiid's grave?  I mean... maybe?   I admitted many times that both sides were speculating.  I just happened to be speculating based on what I read directly from Embiid's camp, Bill Self, Hinkie and the 76ers CEO.  It didn't seem like surgery was a certainty.  GIven that it took several weeks and several doctors to apparently pull the trigger on surgery, I think I was right to be skeptical.   I'm still rather confused on what this surgery is about, though.  If it's to fix a re-break, it means that all the stuff I was reading for the 76ers camp (where they explicitly said he didn't re-injure himself and they were just seeing "different" results in the routine CT scan) was inaccurate.

Exactly, this thread would be boring if we all agreed. I actually think you're quite insightful and know what you're talking about. I prefer to have discussions with people who aren't homers. My Bball intellect has only grown from reading what you and others like yourself have had to say.

[Rondo9]

Don't see how this refers to not tanking, this is just bad drafting
I root for tank and still does this season, and i never wanted Embiid(and okafor)
Don't forget we TANKED(or sucked if you like) to get SMART

If Embiid was available at 6, Danny would have taken him, he said so himself.  Let's not get smug here.  Most of us would have been on board with that decision then. I know I would have.  The reports on his foot were not all that alarming then. Who knows what this means for his career.  Maybe the foot needs to be re-set because it was not done correctly the first time. Look at the problems Gronk went through with his broken arm, infection, etc.  Did that ultimately affect his return to be a great player? No.  I would not be so fast to say Embiid is washed up. It is troublesome, but to say he is finished as a player is way too premature.  I'd still offer a decent package to get him.  Like Sully and a future first round pick.  Because, if healthy, I think he will be phenomenal.

IF healthy.

[D.o.s.]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

ah I forgot the blind sheep phenomenon.  That probably explains it.

On NBA Open court this June Steve Smith said he had never heard the term 'tanking' "before a couple of years ago." Does that seem realistic to you?

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qf01WfNZE

At about the 4:00 mark.

Of course not since you know the whole reason the lottery was implemented was the widespread tanking for Hakeem.

Right, exactly. I couldn't tell if the sheeple was a joke or not, sorry!

I wouldn't even say it's anything as nefarious as that, though. It's just trends in the way people talk about the league and the sport.

[Eddie20]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Some just act like they do.

Yeah but dude you, in particular, act this way all the time. You did it with Tim per Rondo, you did it with Triboy on Aaron Gordon (or something), and you do it with LB on Embiid.

The common denominator here should be fairly easy to spot.

Right, because his opinions are shared by the masses. Ironically, I think some of the biggest back and forths ever were between he and Tim. Usually I disagree with people here about basketball related topics. Isn't that only normal? Diffent minds = different opinions. LarBrd was dismissing all the reports of Embiid's medical issues, something (medical field) that he probably has no knowledge about. And not only was he doing so, but he was doing so in a very smug manner.

I know you're trying to be his PR guy, but he's a big boy and has written A LOT about Embiid. Isn't it only just that he gives a response on the news?

Some of the biggest differences on this blog have been between me and LB. Most recently Biyombo, prior to that Rondo, also relating to Oscar Robertson from time to time. I also disagree with him about Embiid, but that's not really the point.

What I'm saying, Eddie, is that you continually post like a ****, and that it's annoying to continually read your posts calling out other posters, particularly when you do it out of nowhere (like you did in this thread) instead of reading posts that relate to the situation at hand, rather than your weird fixations on specific posters on specific topics, is a drag. A measure of self-awareness would be nice, and probably result in a better reading experience for many posters here.

LarBrd33 and Embiid/Noel/Sixers have become almost synonymous on this forum, with the way he writes about them. Is this not a Celtics forum? So when you have a tendency, almost to an absurd level, of praising on opponent, while throwing crap on the "home team", you're fair game to take criticism. This means posting some of his snarky comments, comments that were just a couple of weeks ago, on the exact topic at hand. Why is that out of bounds? Do you think LarBrd wouldn't have gloated endlessly if Embiid had played in Summer League and dominated the competition? Do you realize how unbearable he would've been? Maybe you have LarBrd on a Gandhi like pedestal and think he wouldn't have said a word, but given his history of Sixers boasting/Celtics bashing that's more doubtful than Embiid's future. Again, is this not a Celtics forum?

[tankcity!]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

ah I forgot the blind sheep phenomenon.  That probably explains it.

On NBA Open court this June Steve Smith said he had never heard the term 'tanking' "before a couple of years ago." Does that seem realistic to you?

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qf01WfNZE

At about the 4:00 mark.

Of course not since you know the whole reason the lottery was implemented was the widespread tanking for Hakeem.

You have to keep in mind that they played in a different era where everything wasn't so public. Also, the players were more competiive and prideful back then. That's why I love MJ. Even look at Pierce and Garnett. They are nothing like LBJ and Durant. I mean, Durant's literally made of jelly. I missed it when the best players tried to destroy each other. 

[Moranis]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

ah I forgot the blind sheep phenomenon.  That probably explains it.

On NBA Open court this June Steve Smith said he had never heard the term 'tanking' "before a couple of years ago." Does that seem realistic to you?

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qf01WfNZE

At about the 4:00 mark.

Of course not since you know the whole reason the lottery was implemented was the widespread tanking for Hakeem.

Right, exactly. I couldn't tell if the sheeple was a joke or not, sorry!

I wouldn't even say it's anything as nefarious as that, though. It's just trends in the way people talk about the league and the sport.

I don't know why, it just really bugs me that Philly gets called out for basically the exact same thing Seattle/OKC did.  I mean that franchise for almost 3 straight years did nothing but sell off talent for future picks and young players.  The Sixers are only at year 2.  Now granted Durant, Westbrook, and Harden all came out of the gate playing, unlike the Sixers, but there really isn't much practical difference between what the teams did. 

[D.o.s.]

What Seattle did was worse: they tanked to lower attendance to justify the move to OKC.

LarBrd33 and Embiid/Noel/Sixers have become almost synonymous on this forum, with the way he writes about them. Is this not a Celtics forum? So when you have a tendency, almost to an absurd level, of praising on opponent, while throwing crap on the "home team", you're fair game to take criticism. This means posting some of his snarky comments, comments that were just a couple of weeks ago, on the exact topic at hand. Why is that out of bounds? Do you think LarBrd wouldn't have gloated endlessly if Embiid had played in Summer League and dominated the competition? Do you realize how unbearable he would've been? Maybe you have LarBrd on a Gandhi like pedestal and think he wouldn't have said a word, but given his history of Sixers boasting/Celtics bashing track record that's more doubtful than Embiid's future. Again, is this not a Celtics forum?

Two things: I think you are seriously misreading his posts and I don't believe that people have to fawn over the Celtics because they are Celtics fans. But that's neither here nor there.

What strikes me as rude, frankly, is the single-mindedness that comes into it. I don't particularly agree with BBallTim, for example, but you called him out in every single Rondo thread about every single thing that Rondo did using the same sort of weirdly dismissive language you use here without offering any insight of your own. You do the same with triboy. It's awkward to read and it is so regular that I figured I'd comment on it.